Not Understanding

[Vermont Green]

The Miami game was a thriller and a big win, no doubt about it, but I suspect that we are not going to win all that many games against teams of Miami's caliber.  Other than that, we have beaten Orlando twice and Utah along with losing to Toronto, Detroit and Milwaukee.

I think I understand just fine.  We are going to try and win every game with the players we have.  We are going to play hard and put the best combination of players out there every night.  If that gets us into the playoffs, so be it.

We traded some old players and got some younger players and a whole lot of draft picks.  I have no problem with that whether we make the playoffs or not.  I think Pierce still has a few more good years in him but I fear KG is very near the end.  I don't think he can come back from another injury so he could be done-done at any moment.  I understand the trade from both our perspective and the Nets.

Crawford is really the surprise.  He is playing great.  Teams will adjust though and come with schemes that make it tougher on him but he seems to have really bought in so far.  Not sure anyone expected that (I sure didn't see it coming) but what are you going to do if he wins us a few more games than we thought?

Then there will be trades along the way that will probably make us weaker in the short term but hopefully stronger in the long term (like the Brooklyn trade).  We have no shortage of potential trade bait which is good.  The trade bait has to play well though (meaning we win some games) if it is going to be worth anything.

[ram]

"Nothing good ever came from losing."
the late, great Red Auerbach

[Section301]

I thought the point of trading Paul and KG was to rebuild and get better?  I am not understanding why everyone is getting excited over this team.  Not to be negative but we are the Celtics and it's about championships.  Look at this team!! We are not winning a championship with this team so why make the playoffs? If we wanted to make the playoffs this season then we should of kept the team from last year. This team may seem good now or "clicking" but do we all honestly think we can win a title?? We should be tanking regardless of who we are or what pride we have.  I would much rather have a horrible season this year, get hopefully a top 5 pick in a deep draft and come back next year with a fully healthy Rondo, plus Green and whatever players we keep from this season along with the top 5 pick from the draft and be a team to be reckoned with next year and so on. Trade whatever players this year so we can stock up draft picks for this year draft.

With them, the C's are a mediocre team with an aging core and few draft picks.  After the trade, the C's are a mediocre team with a young core who are learning on the floor as opposed to playing behind your aging HOFers, and also happens to have 3 more draft picks (and the option to swap in another year). 

I kind of like the approach.  Why play to lose to get a low draft pick when you can bet on another team losing while developing your own talent in a competitive atmosphere?  I'm thinking Pierce and Garnett play another year or two at most, and those Nets unprotectedpicks in '16, '17 and '18 are going to be much higher than the Celtics picks.

If it makes you feel any better, you can consider that Ainge drafted KO 13th, Bradley 19th, and both Sullinger and Rondo were drafted at 21.  If there is value to be found in the mid-to-late draft, he can find it.  In the "deepest draft in years," odds are good that a quality player will be found wherever the C's are picking (but I'd guess they'll be in in the 8-10 range), even if by some crazy luck they end up out of the lottery. 

It's also worth considering that some team in need of lots of cheap talent might be desperate enough to swap a top 5 pick this year with the C's for the Celtics' pick this year (again, I'm guessing an 8-10 pick) and some combination of one or more of those first rounders from the Nets ('14, '16, '17, '18) and the Clippers' pick in '15. 
 

[BballTim]

Then there was no point in trading PP or KG

  Sure there was. It saved money, gave us financial flexibilty and brought in a bunch of draft picks.

[playdream]

"Nothing good ever came from losing."
the late, great Red Auerbach

and we are losing the pingpong balls

[BballTim]

"Nothing good ever came from losing."
the late, great Red Auerbach

and we are losing the pingpong balls

  Don't we always?

[D.o.s.]

Is it worth pointing out that the team-building strategies that Red used to build such a winning team wouldn't even be possible today?

[ram]

Is it worth pointing out that the team-building strategies that Red used to build such a winning team wouldn't even be possible today?
--------------------
Red would have figured out today's rules and used them to his advantage better than anyone else.

But he would not have "tanked" because losing was not in his DNA.

[D.o.s.]

Is it worth pointing out that the team-building strategies that Red used to build such a winning team wouldn't even be possible today?
--------------------
Red would have figured out today's rules and used them to his advantage better than anyone else.

But he would not have "tanked" because losing was not in his DNA.

Maybe.

I doubt he can get away with trading for a Bill Russell when he hasn't even seen him play, though.

I doubt he can get away with "swallowing his pride" and being forced to take Bob Cousy in a redraft owing to a collapsing team.

He certainly wouldn't be able to get away with drafting Bird during his junior year, because the league passed the Bird Collegiate Rule after that.

etc.

Auerback was a great coach, for sure, but he was also miles ahead of his contemporaries in his racial apathy--he traded a pair of white future Hall of Famers for some black dude he hadn't even seen yet*. He played an all-black starting five when that was Not What One Did. His belief in best available, contrasted with the, uh, outmoded beliefs of his competition, played as much a part in his success as his coaching and GM'ing.


*That black dude, of course, became the winningest American basketball player of all time.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

To the OP: I understand your concern for the team's future, but I respectfully recommend just relaxing and enjoying what you're seeing, which is a promising crop of youngsters who, under Ainge's shrewd management, will become (via development or trade) the next great iteration of Celtics basketball. Boston also already has a bunch of good draft picks covering the next few seasons, and could land more by next summer.

As "rebuilding" or "bridge" teams go, Boston is sitting pretty: lots of young prospects, lots of good draft picks, a good coach, and an All-Star point guard who can be the team's centerpiece OR trade bait for other highly desirable assets.

As much as I like Pierce and KG, if they (and Doc) were still here, it would be another mediocre regular season of tired vets and underused youngsters followed by a couple of inspirational playoff games before an early, unceremonious exit. I've had my fill of that, and I love seeing the youth and promise that's out there right now. Since Reggie Lewis died, Boston's had basically one really good homegrown talent—Paul Pierce—and all the other major talent has been imported. I'm not against imports, and I'm sure we'll have more, but it would be great to see another homegrown talent or two (or three) as integral parts of a Celtics title team.

[ram]

you left out his brilliance in drafting Dave Cowens, Don Chaney and Jo Jo White and trading the rights to Charlie Scott for Paul Silas to build his 2nd championship team (and previously drafting John Havlicek).

Or trading Rick Robey for DJ

or Trading Bob McAdoo for ML Carr and the draft picks he then later traded for the Chief and McHale.

And if Bias hadn't OD'ed, that trade (Henderson) for the pick would have went down in history, too.



Red could adapt to the rules of today.

[D.o.s.]

you left out his brilliance in drafting Dave Cowens, Don Chaney and Jo Jo White and trading the rights to Charlie Scott for Paul Silas to build his 2nd championship team (and previously drafting John Havlicek).

Or trading Rick Robey for DJ

or Trading Bob McAdoo for ML Carr and the draft picks he then later traded for the Chief and McHale.

And if Bias hadn't OD'ed, that trade (Henderson) for the pick would have went down in history, too.



Red could adapt to the rules of today.

I figured I didn't have to--the guy was a great coach and a great GM, but those post-Russell teams aren't where his legacy was really made, IMO.

[Surferdad]

...I think I understand just fine.  We are going to try and win every game with the players we have.  We are going to play hard and put the best combination of players out there every night.  If that gets us into the playoffs, so be it.
...

Yup.  Essentially, there is no such thing as tanking.  To put it another way, this team is NOT tanking at least not the players or the coach.  If anyone insists, then you can say Ainge is (was) tanking, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the players or the coaching staff are tanking or intend to tank.

[playdream]

...I think I understand just fine.  We are going to try and win every game with the players we have.  We are going to play hard and put the best combination of players out there every night.  If that gets us into the playoffs, so be it.
...

Yup.  Essentially, there is no such thing as tanking.  To put it another way, this team is NOT tanking at least not the players or the coach.  If anyone insists, then you can say Ainge is (was) tanking, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the players or the coaching staff are tanking or intend to tank.

yeah but the "non-evidence" may be the biggest evidence to show they are tanking
i mean if you truly want to tank you won't want others to know it

[D.o.s.]

...I think I understand just fine.  We are going to try and win every game with the players we have.  We are going to play hard and put the best combination of players out there every night.  If that gets us into the playoffs, so be it.
...

Yup.  Essentially, there is no such thing as tanking.  To put it another way, this team is NOT tanking at least not the players or the coach.  If anyone insists, then you can say Ainge is (was) tanking, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the players or the coaching staff are tanking or intend to tank.

yeah but the "non-evidence" may be the biggest evidence to show they are tanking
i mean if you truly want to tank you won't want others to know it

People will know.

Mikki Moore logged 17 minutes a game for the Warriors at the end of 11-12 while they were trying to hold on to their draft pick.

Yes, that Mikki Moore.