Would you trade Jeff Green+ for Carmelo Anthony?

[Celtics4ever]

No,  I would not do this trade.   Denver did ok without him.  I think he is a very good player but not a great one.  He finds a way to whiff in the playoffs year in and year out.  Very inefficient volume scorer as I see it.  Melo is no PP, he doesn't have the penchant for the dirty work that PP does.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I think as a business decision you would have to make the trade and trust that the Celtics environment and coaching staff can transform Melo into something more efficient and deadly as a player. Its a massive risk but one that might catapult the Celtics into contention immediately.

All that said, I am not a fan of Melo or his game as it is currently constructed

Melo is a career 45% shooter and 33% from the 3. Not really inefficient. Although, he is shooting 41% right now, but it's early.

And along that career 45% shooting is a career 25 points per game. If that's the problem the Celtics need to worry, then give to us.

[The Rondo Show]

Definitely

[gpap]

Having said that, if I had an opportunity to acquire him and the key piece I was giving up was Jeff Green, then it's a no-brainer.

If the Knicks are trading Carmelo Anthony, they are likely looking for a package to help them rebuild.  I would expect them to ask for a young player (Sullinger or Olynyk) and draft picks as part of the deal.

And again....if Green, Sully, Olynyk and a couple first rounders net me Melo, I still make that deal.

I think a team consisting of Rondo and Melo as your core with the right supporting cast makes you an Eastern Conference finals contender for several years.

To me, the more complicated scenario is, would two Atlantic "foes" like the Celts and Knicks, ever be able to work out such a deal?

The Celts and Brooklyn didn't seem to have any difficulty making a big move, but the Celts/Knicks have more history of a competitive rivalry going back to the Larry Bird/Patrick Ewing days.

[D.o.s.]

It would be interesting to see the responses if this thread was about Kevin Durant--who, as a player, is more similar to Carmelo than many people might want to admit.

Obviously age is a big difference there.

And also: Durant is widely regarded as the leagues 2nd best player.  Melo is possibly top 10 but definitely has been passed by Paul George among forwards right now.  So.... I don't think they are that similar really.  Both scorers, sure.

I think a large part of that comes from the fact that Kevin Durant was sainted as a Basketball Jesus type when he was just starting out... and because he's so young, relative to his ability.

[moiso]

Melo is the much better player but I would not want him on my team.  He will never make it to a finals as the leading man on an nba team.  And I don't think he is nearly ready to modify his game like Pierce did when he got some talent to join him.  Carmelo plays first and foremost for Carmelo, not for his team.

[Snakehead]

Melo is the much better player but I would not want him on my team.  He will never make it to a finals as the leading man on an nba team.  And I don't think he is nearly ready to modify his game like Pierce did when he got some talent to join him.  Carmelo plays first and foremost for Carmelo, not for his team.

You want to trade multiple assets then pay 120 million dollars over a contract extension to a man who this can be said about... be my guest!

moiso is right on.

As a Knick hater, nothing would be better than him staying on the Knicks.  Luckily it seems to be a lock.

And let it be known that Melo was one of my favorite players up to a point in Denver before I turned on him there.  He has done nothing to change his selfish game since then.

[More Banners]

There really isn't a problem with keeping Jeff Green at all.  He's not paid as a #1 option, and has a pretty good contract for anyone in the top-3 of any roster.  He seems to give the game what it needs more and more, which is what you want in your #3 guy.

If you can trade a 3 for a 1, it's usually a good idea, especially if they play the same position.  It means an upgrade.

What's the price of the upgrade, though?  Green's stock is pretty high, and everyone else's is looking pretty good, too.  No need to pay a high price to upgrade by trade when we can be players in FA as well very soon.

I'd rather just play these, but I'm not a huge Carmelo fan, either.  Mostly an individual player it seems, offensively, but I could be wrong.  And there is at least one example of a team not getting worse after losing him, which is another reason not to be high on Melo being a necessary piece.

[mmmmm]

I think as a business decision you would have to make the trade and trust that the Celtics environment and coaching staff can transform Melo into something more efficient and deadly as a player. Its a massive risk but one that might catapult the Celtics into contention immediately.

All that said, I am not a fan of Melo or his game as it is currently constructed

Melo is a career 45% shooter and 33% from the 3. Not really inefficient. Although, he is shooting 41% right now, but it's early.

And along that career 45% shooting is a career 25 points per game. If that's the problem the Celtics need to worry, then give to us.

Carmelo has a career eFG% of .480.  That's decent (not great) efficiency for a primary-option scoring forward.   

EDIT:  Misread table.  Will revise comment.

Revision: Carmelo has shot above .500 eFG only twice in his career and only once since 2007-08 (last year at .502).  He has been below .480 in 3 of the last 5 years and is at .442 so far this season.

For comparison, Paul Pierce has a career eFG% of .499.   And PP has not posted a number _below_ .500 except once (.499 in 2011-12) in the last8 seasons.   He currently is shooting at a .566 eFG clip.

Since he's the topic of trade, we should mention that Jeff Green's career eFG% is .489.   Notably, his number is dragged down by the low .441 he posted his rookie season.   Since then, he has never been below .488 an has been above .500 since joining the Celtics.  He is currently at .526 for this season.

Carmelo is a volume scorer.   He is not particularly efficient one.

Green is an efficient scorer.  He is not a volume chucker.

Carmelo is a bit underrated as a passer.  His Assist rates are not anywhere near Pierce, but they are solid.  And he's a pretty decent rebounder.

Those are two areas where Green does not measure up to those guys.

On the other hand, Green is a much better perimeter defender.

In the end, given his contract and his low shot efficiency, I am not particularly interested in having Carmelo on my team.

[D.o.s.]

There really isn't a problem with keeping Jeff Green at all.  He's not paid as a #1 option, and has a pretty good contract for anyone in the top-3 of any roster.  He seems to give the game what it needs more and more, which is what you want in your #3 guy.

If you can trade a 3 for a 1, it's usually a good idea, especially if they play the same position.  It means an upgrade.

What's the price of the upgrade, though?  Green's stock is pretty high, and everyone else's is looking pretty good, too.  No need to pay a high price to upgrade by trade when we can be players in FA as well very soon.

I'd rather just play these, but I'm not a huge Carmelo fan, either.  Mostly an individual player it seems, offensively, but I could be wrong.  And there is at least one example of a team not getting worse after losing him, which is another reason not to be high on Melo being a necessary piece.

This is probably the only on-court similarity you can draw between the two, but Oscar Robertson didn't have much playoff success until he was paired with Kareem in Milwaukee, either (and that Royals team that bailed on The Big O didn't get appreciably worse once he left... for the whole season they were around before they folded).

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Melo is the much better player but I would not want him on my team.  He will never make it to a finals as the leading man on an nba team.  And I don't think he is nearly ready to modify his game like Pierce did when he got some talent to join him.  Carmelo plays first and foremost for Carmelo, not for his team.

You want to trade multiple assets then pay 120 million dollars over a contract extension to a man who this can be said about... be my guest!

moiso is right on.

As a Knick hater, nothing would be better than him staying on the Knicks.  Luckily it seems to be a lock.

And let it be known that Melo was one of my favorite players up to a point in Denver before I turned on him there.  He has done nothing to change his selfish game since then.

I'm not getting the selfish label.

Is it because he shoots too much? But that's how you make the most of Melo's abilities. He's a volume shooter. Not giving Melo around 20 shots a game is a waste of his productivity. His style of play is not like LeBron's. He's not a facilitator, he's a scorer. His team should put him in the best ways possible for him to score, and his job is to take shots and put the ball in the basket.

[D.o.s.]

There really isn't a problem with keeping Jeff Green at all.  He's not paid as a #1 option, and has a pretty good contract for anyone in the top-3 of any roster.  He seems to give the game what it needs more and more, which is what you want in your #3 guy.

If you can trade a 3 for a 1, it's usually a good idea, especially if they play the same position.  It means an upgrade.

What's the price of the upgrade, though?  Green's stock is pretty high, and everyone else's is looking pretty good, too.  No need to pay a high price to upgrade by trade when we can be players in FA as well very soon.

I'd rather just play these, but I'm not a huge Carmelo fan, either.  Mostly an individual player it seems, offensively, but I could be wrong.  And there is at least one example of a team not getting worse after losing him, which is another reason not to be high on Melo being a necessary piece.

This is probably the only on-court similarity you can draw between the two, but Oscar Robertson didn't have much playoff success until he was paired with Kareem in Milwaukee, either (and that Royals team that bailed on The Big O didn't get appreciably worse once he left... for the whole season they were around before they folded).

More interestingly, take a look at Pierce's numbers from his rookie year 'til he was 29 (that "outstanding" '06-07 season) and 'Melo's from his rookie year until present--especially their playoff numbers.

http://bkref.com/tiny/bWoXF

[Snakehead]

Melo is the much better player but I would not want him on my team.  He will never make it to a finals as the leading man on an nba team.  And I don't think he is nearly ready to modify his game like Pierce did when he got some talent to join him.  Carmelo plays first and foremost for Carmelo, not for his team.

You want to trade multiple assets then pay 120 million dollars over a contract extension to a man who this can be said about... be my guest!

moiso is right on.

As a Knick hater, nothing would be better than him staying on the Knicks.  Luckily it seems to be a lock.

And let it be known that Melo was one of my favorite players up to a point in Denver before I turned on him there.  He has done nothing to change his selfish game since then.

I'm not getting the selfish label.

Is it because he shoots too much? But that's how you make the most of Melo's abilities. He's a volume shooter. Not giving Melo around 20 shots a game is a waste of his productivity. His style of play is not like LeBron's. He's not a facilitator, he's a scorer. His team should put him in the best ways possible for him to score, and his job is to take shots and put the ball in the basket.

"Volume shooter" is not a good thing.

He also doesn't defend.  He is a ball stopper.  None of these things are good.

A Pierce comparison was made before and Pierce was always a much more willing passer.

Durant, and yes Pierce, showw you how a scorer can be unselfish.  You would never confuse their games.

[Fafnir]

It would be interesting to see the responses if this thread was about Kevin Durant--who, as a player, is more similar to Carmelo than many people might want to admit.

Obviously age is a big difference there.

Durant is a more dangerous offensive player and is more of a two way player the last few years than Melo has been.

One of the biggest problems with Melo is that he compromises your help/transition defense so dang much. Destroys much of the value his offensive ability creates.

James Harden is going down that road too. Its shocking how he went from being an okay defender in OKC to an embarrassing one so quickly. A reminder that the focus and stamina to be a two-way player shouldn't be taken for granted.

[yoursweatersux]

Melo can't play with a team. It's always about Melo, and that's not how you win a championship. Say what you will about pre-2007/2008 Pierce, but once they got Ray Allen and KG on board Pierce played like the consummate team-player. I could never see Melo doing that.

Furthermore, just look at their advanced stats and you'll see that Pierce has always been statistically better than Melo for his entire career. The only advanced stat that says otherwise is PER, which is a garbage stat that rewards players for chucking up more shots arbitrarily.

(by the way, if there's one thing I could burn with fire it's PER. Honestly, the methodology behind it and its use are just horrendous. I think any GM that's familiar with advanced stats would probably vomit if you mentioned PER in their presence. The only reason, and I mean the ONLY reason, why it's not universally ridiculed/rejected/spit upon, is because it was invented by ESPN's John Hollinger so ESPN uses it ubiquitously).