Not Homer

[LB3533]

 

We could easily be 4-0 with one change in our game. TURNOVERS.

Turnovers are killing us on 2 sides of the ball, offense and defense.

Every game we are getting out FGAs by the opposing team, if we clean up the turnovers we would be scoring in the 100's per game and limiting teams' transition scores in the process.

I know this sounds almost too simple, but it is extremely valid.

Make this one change and we won't be looking like we are in tank mode. (Which we really aren't, no matter what any of the pundits say).

[TwinTower14]

you are a homer, the team is in the tank mode.  It's not going to get better for a bit.  This is not a very talented group....

[Who]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

[Moranis]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

Boston has been getting killed on the glass for years (08-09 was the last time Boston wasn't outrebounded on the season).  Turnovers are definitely a problem this year, but I think that is more about no KG and PP than no RR (and thus everyone else playing in roles they aren't suited for), which is why I don't think the return of RR is going to drastically change the teams outlook.  Lead to a few more wins, absolutely, but not take this team from garbage to even competitive.  This is an under 30 win team even if Rondo was healthy and playing.  Just not enough talent.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

I don't think we've been as bad rebound-wise as the stats show, or as you seem to allude. For consideration, we have played 3 teams that are in the top 10 of rebounding differential.

The other was Milwaukee, who we out rebounded by a wide margin.

[hwangjini_1]

you are a homer, the team is in the tank mode.  It's not going to get better for a bit.  This is not a very talented group....

tp since no one on this board should be without at least one of them.

[fairweatherfan]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

I don't think we've been as bad rebound-wise as the stats show, or as you seem to allude. For consideration, we have played 3 teams that are in the top 10 of rebounding differential.

The other was Milwaukee, who we out rebounded by a wide margin.

This early in the season, outrebounding us by that much is a huge part of why they're in the top 10 for differential.  Can't disentangle the two with such a tiny sample.  Unless you meant last season's differential?

Overall we've looked very poor on the boards, largely because our bigs are a mix of undersized (Sully+Bass), undermuscled (Olynyk), and inexperienced at the NBA level (Sully, Oly, + Faverani).

[BudweiserCeltic]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

I don't think we've been as bad rebound-wise as the stats show, or as you seem to allude. For consideration, we have played 3 teams that are in the top 10 of rebounding differential.

The other was Milwaukee, who we out rebounded by a wide margin.

This early in the season, outrebounding us by that much is a huge part of why they're in the top 10 for differential.  Can't disentangle the two with such a tiny sample.  Unless you meant last season's differential?

Overall we've looked very poor on the boards, largely because our bigs are a mix of undersized (Sully+Bass), undermuscled (Olynyk), and inexperienced at the NBA level (Sully, Oly, + Faverani).

No, this season, and Toronto for example has out rebounded other opponents by a wide margin as well.

Detroit has a lot of good rebounders there, so no we're not the reason.

Memphis the same...

So no, they're not up there due to us.  More like we're "down there" because of them more than anything.

[fairweatherfan]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

I don't think we've been as bad rebound-wise as the stats show, or as you seem to allude. For consideration, we have played 3 teams that are in the top 10 of rebounding differential.

The other was Milwaukee, who we out rebounded by a wide margin.

This early in the season, outrebounding us by that much is a huge part of why they're in the top 10 for differential.  Can't disentangle the two with such a tiny sample.  Unless you meant last season's differential?

Overall we've looked very poor on the boards, largely because our bigs are a mix of undersized (Sully+Bass), undermuscled (Olynyk), and inexperienced at the NBA level (Sully, Oly, + Faverani).

No, this season, and Toronto for example has out rebounded other opponents by a wide margin as well.

Detroit has a lot of good rebounders there, so no we're not the reason.

Memphis the same...

So no, they're not up there due to us.  More like we're "down there" because of them more than anything.

Rebound differential is calculated based on the games a team has played.  When a team has played only 3-4 games, and one is against us, their differential against us is having a major impact on their overall differential.  That's how the statistic works. 

One way to get around this would be to compare differential against us to overall differential:

Toronto - Overall differential +14; vs us +15.  Difference = +1
Milwaukee - Overall -12; vs us -11.  Difference = +1
Detroit - Overall +5; vs us +7. Difference = +2
Memphis - Overall + 2.8; vs us +4.  Difference = +1.2

Average: +1.3 better vs us than overall.

Every team we've played has outperformed their overall average differential against us.  Conclusion - we kinda suck at rebounding. 

[BballTim]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

Boston has been getting killed on the glass for years (08-09 was the last time Boston wasn't outrebounded on the season).  Turnovers are definitely a problem this year, but I think that is more about no KG and PP than no RR (and thus everyone else playing in roles they aren't suited for), which is why I don't think the return of RR is going to drastically change the teams outlook.

  I'd expect our primary ballhandler and distributor to have a fairly significant effect on our assists and turnovers. In the 2012 playoffs our team assist/turnover ratio was a little better than 1.5/1, in 2013 it was a little worse than 1/1. Right now it's about .67/1, it seems pretty reasonable to expect a good increase to that number with a fairly healthy Rondo.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Turnovers + rebounding

Getting killed in possession creation. Minus 5 in turnovers and minus 4 in rebounding. 9 possessions a game. Very difficult to win when you give your opponent 9 extra possessions a game to score on you.

I don't think we've been as bad rebound-wise as the stats show, or as you seem to allude. For consideration, we have played 3 teams that are in the top 10 of rebounding differential.

The other was Milwaukee, who we out rebounded by a wide margin.

This early in the season, outrebounding us by that much is a huge part of why they're in the top 10 for differential.  Can't disentangle the two with such a tiny sample.  Unless you meant last season's differential?

Overall we've looked very poor on the boards, largely because our bigs are a mix of undersized (Sully+Bass), undermuscled (Olynyk), and inexperienced at the NBA level (Sully, Oly, + Faverani).

No, this season, and Toronto for example has out rebounded other opponents by a wide margin as well.

Detroit has a lot of good rebounders there, so no we're not the reason.

Memphis the same...

So no, they're not up there due to us.  More like we're "down there" because of them more than anything.

Rebound differential is calculated based on the games a team has played.  When a team has played only 3-4 games, and one is against us, their differential against us is having a major impact on their overall differential.  That's how the statistic works. 

One way to get around this would be to compare differential against us to overall differential:

Toronto - Overall differential +14; vs us +15.  Difference = +1
Milwaukee - Overall -12; vs us -11.  Difference = +1
Detroit - Overall +5; vs us +7. Difference = +2
Memphis - Overall + 2.8; vs us +4.  Difference = +1.2

Average: +1.3 better vs us than overall.

Every team we've played has outperformed their overall average differential against us.  Conclusion - we kinda suck at rebounding.

There's a lot of aspects pulling at the stats, as you mentioned, small sample size. Like Detroit and Memphis playing against each other understating their rebounding prowess, while punishing us for outrebouding a team by 11 because they got outrebouded by a wide margin by the current #1 team in differential with Toronto (which in turn might explain how inflated their current performance is, in part because our rebounding performance in the first game was abysmal).

So, I stand by my assessment that our team hasn't been as bad rebounding the ball as the stats show, except for that first game performance which was an aberration.

We'll see how the season progresses. I don't expect us to be rebounding leaders, but also not the bottom rebound feeders the stats show.

Also, Sullinger has played limited minutes so far, and wasn't around in the first game... so food for thought on that regard.

[Eric M VAN]

I think the reason the Celtics are 0-4 is that they haven't scored as many points as the other teams they've played.

Dudes, that's just science!

Fire McCarty!

 

[D.o.s.]

Homer:

[Who]

I expect the Celtics to be a bad rebounding team.

The guards are limited rebounders. Bradley is solid for a PG but weak for a SG. Courtney Lee has always been a weak rebounder. Jordan Crawford is weak for a SG but decent for a PG. Rondo is the only strong rebounder in the backcourt but he is hurt.

The forwards lack rebounding too. Jeff Green is below par. Bass is one of the weakest starting PFs in the league in terms of rebounding. Gerald Wallace is a bit of a question mark. Very strong throughout most his career but didn't do enough for Brooklyn last year and has continued to disappoint in the regular season for Boston this year. Sullinger is one of the bright spots on the team, a very strong rebounder.

Faverani is another question mark at the center position. A terrific performance against Larry Sanders and the Bucks (who are bottom of the league in rebounding differential so far) but three underwhelming performances since then. Olynyk is a bad rebounder too. Humphries as 3rd string C is a strong rebounder.

There just isn't that much talent on this team rebounding wise.

[LB3533]

This team does not have capable passers at each position. I think we need to keep the offense more simple. We have to play the offense called "milk the cow" and keep at this until they stop it with their defense or we go cold with it.

Less multiple passes in the half court will help reduce our turnovers.

The big thing that helps when Rondo is healthy is that he dominates the ball and he is most likely the one turning the ball over more as opposed to the whole team.

I never said this team didn't have flaws, it certainly does. I think this team lacks a significant bench difference maker and the team as a whole lacks outside shooting. When our bigs are our best 3 point shooters, something is wrong.

I have a big time gut feeling that this Celtics team is gonna surprise the league.

Coach Brad Stevens will be in the running for coach of the year, maybe even win it this year.

Someone please remind me of this thread if and when we hit the lottery haha, I'll be back to eat crow if you serve it!