Rondo and Klynyk.

[Celtics18]

I'm looking forward to seeing those two play together.

[Tr1boy]

I'm looking forward to seeing those two play together.

Same here.  Olynyk had an off night offensively but did everything else like a vet.

The guy got like one pass down low vs the pistons where he got several. Olynyk is the type of player that has to get going by scoring garbage buckets, get to the Ft line and his jumpers will fall down easier

[SHAQATTACK]

KO.......is the steal of last years draft.......none of the other bigs show the skill set he has and ar years behind him at best......

KO vs Nerlins  may be stuff of legends one day years from now.....

[PhoSita]

Vitor and Kelly should both benefit immensely from having a real point guard on the floor with them.  I frequently see them in position to get the ball and the shooting guards they're playing with either fail to see, or see but choose to hold onto the ball.

[nickagneta]

Admittedly, all I have seen is the Milwaukee game but if you guys are seeing something in Olynyk that the box scores or the recaps on the games haven't, I would like to hear it because according to what I saw in Milwaukee, the recaps of the game and the stat lines, Olynyk has had about 1 and 1/2 quarters of good play this year out of 16.

He's averaging as many PFs as rebounds in 20 MPG. He's only shooting 38% while averaging 6 PPG. And his advanced stats(PER, WS, DWS, Ortg, Drtg) are off the charts bad.

I will say I am not a believer in Olynyk but for the Celtics sake, I hope he develops into something special but thus far, I haven't personally seen anything to indicate the hype he has received after the Summer League is justified.

Help me out here. What are you guys seeing?

[PhoSita]

Help me out here. What are you guys seeing?

Good touch around the basket.  Good hands generally.  Sometimes appears lost, but seems intelligent -- I believe he's taken a charge or two, and seems to have good instincts about where to be.

His shooting isn't there right now, but I don't doubt that he'll be able to shoot just fine in the long term.  I believe he's shown us more than enough of his ability to shoot -- perhaps not fadeaway contested jumpers or anything, but open spot-up attempts should be solid.

He's also demonstrated a pretty good handle for a big man, with some ability to drive to the hoop against slower defenders.  Also a good passer, similar to Sullinger.


The main issues so far boil down to the fact that he appears physically outmatched fairly often and I don't think he's figured out how to work around that, yet.  He needs to work on positioning and boxing out for rebounds, and securing balls with both hands instead of tipping them.  I believe that he's a hard worker and a smart guy so I think he'll figure it out.  The fact that he's 7 feet tall means the odds are in his favor as far as that goes, unless truly undersized guys without superlative athletic ability or great strength.

The biggest problem I think is that it seems that Kelly struggles to get involved in the offense and that makes his defensive issues seem more glaring.  I really do think given his positive attributes that Kelly will look a LOT better once he's on the floor with a true point guard and ideally some other guys who can space the floor better.  Kelly has a varied skill set which should be valuable on a good team.  But on a team like this the only guys who are going to really stand out are those with great physical gifts or 1-on-1 style players.

As for the personal fouls, similar to Sullinger I think a lot of that is his rookie status.  He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.  Once he gets stronger and learns the ropes on defense a bit better, I think he'll do a better job of keeping out of foul trouble.


To be clear, I'm not defending the idea of Kelly as a budding star or anything, but I think there's plenty of reason to believe he can be a useful player long term, and in the right situation I think he'll grow into an above average scorer.

[Who]

Help me out here. What are you guys seeing?

Enough to make me think he can provide some useful minutes this year. He looked like a complete liability most of the time I saw him play minutes in preseason and first two regular season games so that is a big improvement over those early bad signs.

Defensively, I don't trust him against anyone who will attack him. But I think he has shown enough team defense to stay out there against limited to mediocre offensive threats. Shows good mobility. Stays in position well enough. Doing a bit better in man-to-man defense but I still don't trust that hold up if anyone really went at him (which they haven't in last two games). Has good size at 7-0 feet if not bulk/length and it did seem like players were surprisingly (wrongly) reluctant to attack him at times. So it is aggressive attackers I would be worried about. 

Rebounding wise, Olynyk was dreadful in preseason and against Toronto. Not only not grabbing rebounds but frequently being outworked by the guy he was meant to be boxing out and losing position to him. Shown much more fight in staying between his man and the ball last two games. Grabbed some more rebounds.

So in terms of defense and rebounding, I thought was fairly awful to begin with but has reached a more passable level in last two games. Below average but passable.

Offensively, I don't worry too much about the offense.

I think perimeter bigs like Olynyk often struggle (1) when they first come to the NBA (2) when they play low and/or inconsistent minutes. So his struggles with his jump-shot don't worry me at this point. I think it is something that will gradually progress. Whether it happens over the next few weeks or months or whether it is next season, I do think that jump-shot will be there long term.

On the plus side, I think his passing has been very good. Best passing big man on the team. He has some ball-handling too. Shows some nifty footwork 10 feet and below. Beat Greg Monroe a couple of times in one-on-one situations. Makes nice cuts off the ball and uses his mobility/agility and soft touch to good effect to wiggle around defenders and get off shots. Seems to create a fair bit of contact too. Surprised by how many fouls he has drawn around the basket. Smart player. High IQ.

I feel confident Olynyk can create an advantage for Boston against limited offensive backup big men but I don't trust him against strong offensive threats. I think he will often become a liability against them. If matchups are controlled well by coaching staff, I think he can be useful.

Needs to maintain recent improved rebounding efforts to be of value. If he reverts back to where his rebounding previously was, he'll be too much of a net negative (short of much improved offense).

[BleedGreen1989]

I think Ainge was right on calling Kelly a "complimentary" player. He has some intriguing skills on offense, but I see him having to work extremely hard to become even an average defender and rebounder. I don't see him being a plus in either category, which is not an issue with a solid role player.

If you were expecting Kelly to come in and average 15/6, you're probably disappointed but he has been pretty much what I thought he'd be at this point in the season.

Also, some whole milk and big sandwiches would do wonders. Kid needs to add some muscle/size.

[nickagneta]

Help me out here. What are you guys seeing?

Enough to make me think he can provide some useful minutes this year. He looked like a complete liability most of the time I saw him play minutes in preseason and first two regular season games so that is a big improvement over those early bad signs.

Defensively, I don't trust him against anyone who will attack him. But I think he has shown enough team defense to stay out there against limited to mediocre offensive threats. Shows good mobility. Stays in position well enough. Doing a bit better in man-to-man defense but I still don't trust that hold up if anyone really went at him (which they haven't in last two games). Has good size at 7-0 feet if not bulk/length and it did seem like players were surprisingly (wrongly) reluctant to attack him at times. So it is aggressive attackers I would be worried about. 

Rebounding wise, Olynyk was dreadful in preseason and against Toronto. Not only not grabbing rebounds but frequently being outworked by the guy he was meant to be boxing out and losing position to him. Shown much more fight in staying between his man and the ball last two games. Grabbed some more rebounds.

So in terms of defense and rebounding, I thought was fairly awful to begin with but has reached a more passable level in last two games. Below average but passable.

Offensively, I don't worry too much about the offense.

I think perimeter bigs like Olynyk often struggle (1) when they first come to the NBA (2) when they play low and/or inconsistent minutes. So his struggles with his jump-shot don't worry me at this point. I think it is something that will gradually progress. Whether it happens over the next few weeks or months or whether it is next season, I do think that jump-shot will be there long term.

On the plus side, I think his passing has been very good. Best passing big man on the team. He has some ball-handling too. Shows some nifty footwork 10 feet and below. Beat Greg Monroe a couple of times in one-on-one situations. Makes nice cuts off the ball and uses his mobility/agility and soft touch to good effect to wiggle around defenders and get off shots. Seems to create a fair bit of contact too. Surprised by how many fouls he has drawn around the basket. Smart player. High IQ.

I feel confident Olynyk can create an advantage for Boston against limited offensive backup big men but I don't trust him against strong offensive threats. I think he will often become a liability against them. If matchups are controlled well by coaching staff, I think he can be useful.

Needs to maintain recent improved rebounding efforts to be of value. If he reverts back to where his rebounding previously was, he'll be too much of a net negative (short of much improved offense).

Yeah, I saw a lot of the negative stuff you saw Who in the limited games(3 preseason and the Milwaukee regular season game) I have watched this year. I also think he will have trouble offensively when paired with a very good defensive 4, which I didn't see in any games I have watched and they really haven't played a team with a good defensive 4 yet(Munroe is okay defensively but he is not what I am talking about).

Hoping what you guys are saying is true but I really don't think he's going to become the player many on here think he is. A good complimentary bench big man is his ceiling, IMHO, and that's if he reaches that level.

[sofutomygaha]

He is paralyzed right now by the threat of having his shot blocked or his pocket picked.

Every time the opportunity is presented for him to dribble or shoot, he freezes up. He hasn't taken a shot in rhythm yet this season- we've been seeing a bizarre hitch in his jumper, as though the moment he realizes he is actually going to get it off he holds it a millisecond too long- leading to front-rims and air balls. He also rarely attacks his defender.

In short, his scoring instincts have abandoned him. They have to come back eventually, though, right? It's really tough to say what he can and and can't do at the NBA level, because his hesitation is undermining everything.

[Snakehead]

He is paralyzed right now by the threat of having his shot blocked or his pocket picked.

Every time the opportunity is presented for him to dribble or shoot, he freezes up. He hasn't taken a shot in rhythm yet this season- we've been seeing a bizarre hitch in his jumper, as though the moment he realizes he is actually going to get it off he holds it a millisecond too long- leading to front-rims and air balls. He also rarely attacks his defender.

In short, his scoring instincts have abandoned him. They have to come back eventually, though, right? It's really tough to say what he can and and can't do at the NBA level, because his hesitation is undermining everything.

You haven't seen him have any scoring instincts?  What was all this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHAVRId7sRE

His jumper isn't there yet but everything else has been pretty good already.  Not sure if you have been watching or you just watched the Memphis game or what.

[PhoSita]

He is paralyzed right now by the threat of having his shot blocked or his pocket picked.

Every time the opportunity is presented for him to dribble or shoot, he freezes up. He hasn't taken a shot in rhythm yet this season- we've been seeing a bizarre hitch in his jumper, as though the moment he realizes he is actually going to get it off he holds it a millisecond too long- leading to front-rims and air balls. He also rarely attacks his defender.

In short, his scoring instincts have abandoned him. They have to come back eventually, though, right? It's really tough to say what he can and and can't do at the NBA level, because his hesitation is undermining everything.

I really think that he'll be more comfortable and perhaps a bit more confident when he's playing in an offense that's actually flowing.  I don't think any of the guys on the floor right now are particularly comfortable because none of the ball handlers can pass (or dribble in any kind of traffic) and the ball movement is awful as a result.

[sofutomygaha]

He is paralyzed right now by the threat of having his shot blocked or his pocket picked.

Every time the opportunity is presented for him to dribble or shoot, he freezes up. He hasn't taken a shot in rhythm yet this season- we've been seeing a bizarre hitch in his jumper, as though the moment he realizes he is actually going to get it off he holds it a millisecond too long- leading to front-rims and air balls. He also rarely attacks his defender.

In short, his scoring instincts have abandoned him. They have to come back eventually, though, right? It's really tough to say what he can and and can't do at the NBA level, because his hesitation is undermining everything.

I really think that he'll be more comfortable and perhaps a bit more confident when he's playing in an offense that's actually flowing.  I don't think any of the guys on the floor right now are particularly comfortable because none of the ball handlers can pass (or dribble in any kind of traffic) and the ball movement is awful as a result.

I don't even understand the ball movement, to be honest. They keep running this weave out at the three point line where they come off of a screen but don't cut, then pass to a big who jumps out, then run a hand-off screen, and then repeat. Memphis watched this cycle for a couple of quarters and then started just jumping in and taking the ball away.

They did run a few plays for Olynyk, though, where they made him some space. He blew it. I think he'll get better for sure.

[aingeforthree]

Help me out here. What are you guys seeing?

Enough to make me think he can provide some useful minutes this year. He looked like a complete liability most of the time I saw him play minutes in preseason and first two regular season games so that is a big improvement over those early bad signs.

Defensively, I don't trust him against anyone who will attack him. But I think he has shown enough team defense to stay out there against limited to mediocre offensive threats. Shows good mobility. Stays in position well enough. Doing a bit better in man-to-man defense but I still don't trust that hold up if anyone really went at him (which they haven't in last two games). Has good size at 7-0 feet if not bulk/length and it did seem like players were surprisingly (wrongly) reluctant to attack him at times. So it is aggressive attackers I would be worried about. 

Rebounding wise, Olynyk was dreadful in preseason and against Toronto. Not only not grabbing rebounds but frequently being outworked by the guy he was meant to be boxing out and losing position to him. Shown much more fight in staying between his man and the ball last two games. Grabbed some more rebounds.

So in terms of defense and rebounding, I thought was fairly awful to begin with but has reached a more passable level in last two games. Below average but passable.

Offensively, I don't worry too much about the offense.

I think perimeter bigs like Olynyk often struggle (1) when they first come to the NBA (2) when they play low and/or inconsistent minutes. So his struggles with his jump-shot don't worry me at this point. I think it is something that will gradually progress. Whether it happens over the next few weeks or months or whether it is next season, I do think that jump-shot will be there long term.

On the plus side, I think his passing has been very good. Best passing big man on the team. He has some ball-handling too. Shows some nifty footwork 10 feet and below. Beat Greg Monroe a couple of times in one-on-one situations. Makes nice cuts off the ball and uses his mobility/agility and soft touch to good effect to wiggle around defenders and get off shots. Seems to create a fair bit of contact too. Surprised by how many fouls he has drawn around the basket. Smart player. High IQ.

I feel confident Olynyk can create an advantage for Boston against limited offensive backup big men but I don't trust him against strong offensive threats. I think he will often become a liability against them. If matchups are controlled well by coaching staff, I think he can be useful.

Needs to maintain recent improved rebounding efforts to be of value. If he reverts back to where his rebounding previously was, he'll be too much of a net negative (short of much improved offense).

Yeah, I saw a lot of the negative stuff you saw Who in the limited games(3 preseason and the Milwaukee regular season game) I have watched this year. I also think he will have trouble offensively when paired with a very good defensive 4, which I didn't see in any games I have watched and they really haven't played a team with a good defensive 4 yet(Munroe is okay defensively but he is not what I am talking about).

Hoping what you guys are saying is true but I really don't think he's going to become the player many on here think he is. A good complimentary bench big man is his ceiling, IMHO, and that's if he reaches that level.

He's played 4 games.  For his career.  Why are you questioning the 'level' he'll reach ?

For these next couple of years, his biggest adjustment will be having to play night in and night out.  I'll let him get use to that & judge what we have maybe 3 years down the road.

He looks like a solid player to me.  Coachable, fundamentally sound, works hard, and is probably a good teammate/locker room presence.  I develop those talents all day and don't set a limit on a level for him.  He's too raw to set any limits on potential.

[Celtics18]

Defensively, I Klynyk has been much better than I expected.  He's not an imposing physical force, but he seems to know where to be and he has quick hands and feet and looks like he knows how to bother people in a sneaky, unorthodox kind of way.   I thought that he showed this particularly in the last two games, not so much the first two.

I am very pleasantly surprised that he can play defense at the center position.  I would go so far as to say that to me he looks like our best defensive center.  This means that we should be able to pair him up more with Sully moving forward.

That's exciting.