Why was Jeff Green on the bench late in the 4th?

[Mr October]

If Green got his rest earlier and the Celtics lose the game, people would be complaining that Stevens short-circuited the team's comeback by sitting Green instead of sticking with what was working.

Not necessarily if that rest was only for 2 minutes in the 3rd quarter plus a timeout and/or break between quarters.

I can't imagine Doc Rivers sitting Pierce in his prime in the 4th quarter for that chunk of time when he was that hot and you have a day off between games.

[Mr October]

Another sneaky tank move would be to play Faverani and Olynyk together. If Stevens were trying as hard as possible to win the game, why would he play 2 rookie big men together for a nice chunk of time? Their combined defense and rebounding were comically bad.

But when your team is lottery bound in a loaded draft year, why not see what they can do together.

[Celtics18]

Another sneaky tank move would be to play Faverani and Olynyk together. If Stevens were trying as hard as possible to win the game, why would he play 2 rookie big men together for a nice chunk of time? Their combined defense and rebounding were comically bad.

But when your team is lottery bound in a loaded draft year, why not see what they can do together.

Some of you guys are most likely going to be doing this all season long.  Ridiculous.  There are going to be second-guessable moves after every game.  That's true for all teams--contenders as well as lottery teams.

I stick with the belief that it absolutely looked like Brad Stevens was coaching to win last night's game.  Second guessing every single combination of players on the court at a given time to see if it was a "tank" line up is silly, in my opinion. 

[Fafnir]

Because Stevens is not Tom Thibideau and won't run his players into the ground.

So any time Stevens makes a decision that Mr. October, OP, and others who view it as sub-optimal its going to be sneaky tanking?

Same thing for the thought that playing Olynyk and Faverani together is "sneaky tanking". Your starting C and backup PF overlapped in minutes, that happens with most teams. Plus do you think having the backup C (Humphries) would have made life much easier for Olynyk?

I mean of our big man rotation 3/5 of it is raw Sullinger/Olynyk/Faverani. So the young guys are going to be playing together for long stretches no matter what, plus its not like Bass/Humphries are defensive anchors themselves.

[LarBrd33]

I'm not saying that was a tank job, but fwiw I got a STRONG sense pre-2008 that Doc was forced to showcase players like Mark Blount and bench promising players like Al Jefferson.  It's part of the process.  The ends justify the means.  I'm not saying that Brad was doing that last night, but keep it in mind if you start to see games where Humph/Wallace play 40 minutes or something.  We want to trade those guys. 

Doc also had the young prospects play big minutes late.  It was a win-win.  Gave the young guys experience and helped the tank effort. 

 

[Fafnir]

I'm not saying that was a tank job, but fwiw I got a STRONG sense pre-2008 that Doc was forced to showcase players like Mark Blount and bench promising players like Al Jefferson.  It's part of the process.  The ends justify the means.  I'm not saying that Brad was doing that last night, but keep it in mind if you start to see games where Gerald Wallace plays 40 minutes or something.

Oh wait...

Right because against a team with two big wings like DeRozan/Gay you want to play Crawford/Lee/Brooks at SF or SG.

DeRozan was picking on Bradley/Lee in the post pretty effectively.

[Celtics18]

I'm not saying that was a tank job, but fwiw I got a STRONG sense pre-2008 that Doc was forced to showcase players like Mark Blount and bench promising players like Al Jefferson.  It's part of the process.  The ends justify the means.  I'm not saying that Brad was doing that last night, but keep it in mind if you start to see games where Gerald Wallace plays 40 minutes or something.

Oh wait...

Yes, I can see this is going to get very silly. 

On the one hand, you guys are going to be saying that we don't have talented enough players to win games, and on the other, you are going to be saying that the ones we are playing represent a "tank" effort.

Yes, it's going to get very silly.

[LB3533]

It really wasn't a minutes thing, it was a turnovers kind of thing and an Amir Johnson miracle three pointer type of thing.

[Fafnir]

It really wasn't a minutes thing, it was a turnovers kind of thing and an Amir Johnson miracle three pointer type of thing.

Also dumb technical free throws we gifted them.

[LarBrd33]

I'm not saying that was a tank job, but fwiw I got a STRONG sense pre-2008 that Doc was forced to showcase players like Mark Blount and bench promising players like Al Jefferson.  It's part of the process.  The ends justify the means.  I'm not saying that Brad was doing that last night, but keep it in mind if you start to see games where Gerald Wallace plays 40 minutes or something.

Oh wait...

Yes, I can see this is going to get very silly. 

On the one hand, you guys are going to be saying that we don't have talented enough players to win games, and on the other, you are going to be saying that the ones we are playing represent a "tank" effort.

Yes, it's going to get very silly.

Are you enjoying the tank so far, Celtics18?  I was very pleased with it last night.  We got some good trade-value boosting production out of Green and Humph and still pulled out the loss.  Meanwhile the 76ers won.  Good stuff. 

[mgent]

It really wasn't a minutes thing, it was a turnovers kind of thing and an Amir Johnson miracle three pointer type of thing.

Even if it wasn't a minutes issue, that doesn't mean we can't question the minutes.

Stevens also trusted Olynyk and Vitor (-19 and -17) together down the stretch (around 5min left) when both of them were getting us killed on the boards instead of either Humphries (+12) who had 9 rebounds but only played 21 minutes or Bass (+12) who was either 5-5 or 6-6 at that point.

[guava_wrench]

Jeff Green had played the entire third quarter and the first 3 and a half minutes of the fourth quarter.

Olynyk came in for him with 8:38 left and Green returned 4 minutes later. The C's went from a 1 point Celtic lead to a 6 point deficit.

So playing Jeff Green 20 minutes out of 24 in the second half is "sneaky tanking" now? Seeing what you want to see, you can't play your players 48 minutes a game.

Edit: Stevens also rested him at a similar point in the second quarter. Just a normal substitution pattern in a loss.

Unfortunately, people who want to complain won't look at those stats. They will just look for something to complain about.

[guava_wrench]

I'd rather he rest guys early in the quarter. Bottom line is Green left the game at a very in opportune time.

This makes little sense since if he would have left the game earlier, same story. He can't play 48 minutes.

[guava_wrench]

If Green got his rest earlier and the Celtics lose the game, people would be complaining that Stevens short-circuited the team's comeback by sitting Green instead of sticking with what was working.

Exactly. People make complaints like that all the time. "Why sit a guy when he is hot?". If we lose, these people will complain and blame the coach. It really is silly. Every team loses, so there are always games where these people can blame substitution patters.

If you are a bad team, you will lose games, even if rotations are "perfect", because other teams will be better than you. I feel like these people are just complaining about losses and try to find something to blame instead of dealing with the team not being perfect.

[snively]

I'm not saying that was a tank job, but fwiw I got a STRONG sense pre-2008 that Doc was forced to showcase players like Mark Blount and bench promising players like Al Jefferson.  It's part of the process.  The ends justify the means.  I'm not saying that Brad was doing that last night, but keep it in mind if you start to see games where Humph/Wallace play 40 minutes or something.  We want to trade those guys. 

Doc also had the young prospects play big minutes late.  It was a win-win.  Gave the young guys experience and helped the tank effort.

Trying to up the value of overpaid vets has nothing to do with tanking - why are you linking the practice?

Playing Gerald Wallace 40mpg is what got Charlotte criticized for being a perpetual 8th seed contender "treadmill" team.  We made the playoffs both years that Blount started the majority of our games.

Nor did Stevens go with the rawest of our young guys down the stretch last night.  IIRC, it was Bradley/Green/Wallace/Bass/Hump in the crucial 4th quarter stretch.