Would you trade Rondo + Green for Kings 2014 lotto pick + Mclemore ?

[chambers]

Posted this somewhere else, got some interesting discussion going.

Two possible scenarios. Either Rondo wants out (unlikely), or....
Lets imagine the Celtics can't find any free agent or disgruntled star suitors to pair with Rondo and Danny Ainge the Celtics GM decides to blow it up even more- a ground up rebuild.

THIS IS A DRAFT DAY TRADE AFTER WE KNOW THE KINGS HAVE A TOP 8 PICK AT THE VERY WORST- HOPEFULLY A TOP 5 PICK.

End game/goal here is that we end up with our own pick which is likely top 8.
If we get our hands on the Kings pick it's in about the same range, likely even higher than ours.
If we trade Rondo I don't think we need Green- it's pointless.

Getting Mclemore gives us a potential core of...
*Two top 10 picks in the 2014 draft ie Jabari Parker +Joel Embid or any two players in that top 10 range that are around- some serious All Star potential.
*Mclemore for 3 seasons locked in.
*Sully +Olynyk still in town.
*Our other picks giving us plenty of bargaining power for years to come.

Here's the trade.

Celtics send to the Kings:

*Rajon Rondo
*Jeff Green
* Maybe we also include the Celtics 2014 first round pick attained from Nets (or was it Clippers?- anyway it's a pick around 15-20)
...but we only include this if we have to.

Kings send back
*Ben Mclemore
*Kings 2014 first round pick
*Jimmer
*Salmons or Outlaw to make salaries work.

Why?
Kings have the big fella locked up. It's time to win now.
Rondo is the best passer in the NBA- he's a veteran playoff warrior. Not sure there's any other guard you want passing and finding Cousins around the rim- he made a 37 year old Shaq look like it was 1999.
Jeff Green is a solid small forward who is capable of scoring, defending and has become a very reliable three point shooter- he's not All Star level and may never be but he'll defend the best SF's in the game- he can also play the PF in a small ball line up and is good for 15 ppg.
You also get a nice pick in a nice draft as a sweetner.

Celtics at this point agree to sign and trade Rondo because the rebuild is looking like it's a long term initiative. They can't sign any major free agents and Rondo is disgruntled because the Celtics can't lure Love or Aldridge from the Wolves/Blazers and he wants out. They're already swimming around the dregs of the NBA- it's now time to cement themselves as a bottom 3 stinker for a few seasons while they tool up.
Some will argue that why trade an All Star for picks or potential. The answer is because he's only locked in for one more season after this year. He can walk pretty soon and if we can't pair him up with some other studs then he's probably wanting a change of scenery, so we get the most out of him while we can.
If we are ever going to trade Rondo is there anything better than a top 8 pick in this loaded draft?
I doubt it.

[Eja117]

I said yes, but the money doesn't match up at all of course

[slamtheking]

horrible idea.  We send out the 2 best players by far for a kid that hasn't done anything yet and pick that MIGHT work out?  horrible.

Rondo's contract is irrelevant.  he's expressed no desire to leave and there's still plenty of time to lock him up longer once we see how he looks post-injury.  He's got the chance to shine on this team with a lot of assets in the upcoming drafts to build on.  Add in the fact there's salary coming off the books over the next 3 years to add good FAs, there's no reason to suspect he's looking to jump ship and that we need to have a fire sale to get pennies on the dollar for him.

by the way -- need another option in the poll -- I wouldn't trade Rondo unless blown away by a ridiculously one-side offer.  I wouldn't trade him if it's looking ugly.  we already know this year will be ugly.

[gpap]

I think this topic has come up before and if I recall, don't the Kings owe their 2014 pick to another team?

For some reason, Cleveland is coming to mind.

[moiso]

Yes, if Mclemore looks like the real deal it's a steal for the Celtics.  If Mclemore looks Rudy Gayish (sum of the parts are better than the whole) I'd still do it but it wouldn't be as much of a steal.

A top 5 pick in the next draft would be a good haul for Rondo.  They can have Green for nothing as far as I'm concerned.  He isn't very good, he's frustrating to watch and we wouldn't have 5 Green threads at a time in the latest forum topics section any more.

[Moranis]

I think this topic has come up before and if I recall, don't the Kings owe their 2014 pick to another team?

For some reason, Cleveland is coming to mind.

They do but it is top 12 protected in 2014 so you could make the trade after the player was drafted and just trade the player.

So you could trade The Rookie, McLemore, and say Landry (need his dollars) for Green and Rondo.  I don't know if Sacramento does this if they have a top 5 pick, but I could certainly see them doing it for a latter half of the top ten and I think Boston would still do that.

[Eja117]

Come to think of it I don't feel the need to do it at all. It leaves us with nobody at pg. It sends Avery Bradley to the bench (or even worse over to point)

[Moranis]

Come to think of it I don't feel the need to do it at all. It leaves us with nobody at pg. It sends Avery Bradley to the bench (or even worse over to point)

PG is the least important position to fill though and also the one where you can get by with a cagey veteran.

Also, Bradley, if he sticks around past this year, is much better suited for the bench anyway.  He isn't a starting SG and certainly can't play the point.

Let's say the trade I just mentioned is completed i.e. McLemore, Landry, and the rookie.  Let's say that rookie is the 7th pick and Boston has the 8th pick of its own.  Draftexpress currently has Jabari Parker at 7 and Andrew Harrison at 8 (nbadraft.net has a vastly different mock at this point with two centers in those slots).  Say that is what Boston ends up with so Boston would pick up a PG, SG, and SF/PF in one fell swoop which when paired with Sullinger and Olynyk is a great starting point of players all in their early 20's or late teens.  Then you still add in Landry, Bradley, and the vets and you have a pretty nice team with a lot of draft picks coming up and the expiring contract of Bass and with 1 less year on Wallace and Lee making them easier to move.  That is how you rebuild.  You get younger cheaper talent in one fell swoop.

[JBcat]

We can add to our shooting guard collection in this deal. 

Seriously though I wouldn't pull a trigger on a deal like this until we are well into the season, and see what Mclemore can do in real regular season games, and how bad or good the Kings are.  If Cousins is carrying them to maybe the 5 to 10 draft range then it gets a little more dicey.   I might demand 2 future number picks, and Mclemore for Green and Rondo, and filler on both sides to make the numbers work. 

The plus side for waiting until midseason for a deal like this is also less of a chance a Rondo, Green, Cousins mix would push the Kings close to playoff contention. 

It is still a very risky deal no matter how you look at especially if Mclemore flops, and the draft pick if closer to the 10 range will be riskier. 

If we go this route we might as well trade our other veteran role players Humprhies, Bass, Lee, ect for whatever future value we can get for them.  Not crazy about it though.

[BballTim]

Come to think of it I don't feel the need to do it at all. It leaves us with nobody at pg. It sends Avery Bradley to the bench (or even worse over to point)

PG is the least important position to fill though and also the one where you can get by with a cagey veteran.

  That's probably the case if you have a high scoring wing that's capable of running an offense most of the time (LeBron, Kobe, Melo, PP or the like) but those players are harder to find than good point guards.

[moiso]

Come to think of it I don't feel the need to do it at all. It leaves us with nobody at pg. It sends Avery Bradley to the bench (or even worse over to point)

Who cares?  It's about collecting assets for the next couple of years.

[Boris Badenov]

I think this topic has come up before and if I recall, don't the Kings owe their 2014 pick to another team?

For some reason, Cleveland is coming to mind.

They do but it is top 12 protected in 2014 so you could make the trade after the player was drafted and just trade the player.

Technical question: could Sac could trade the top-11 rights to the pick before the draft - even today?

It seems to me that teams should be able to trade the same pick to different teams in different ranges, as long as the ranges are non-overlapping.

The complicating issue in this specific case is that if Sac doesn't convey the 2014 pick to CLE, then CLE now owns Sac's top-10 protected 2015. So presumably, doing it in this case violates the rule prohibiting teams from trading two consecutive picks...

Am I getting that right?

[Moranis]

I think this topic has come up before and if I recall, don't the Kings owe their 2014 pick to another team?

For some reason, Cleveland is coming to mind.

They do but it is top 12 protected in 2014 so you could make the trade after the player was drafted and just trade the player.

Technical question: could Sac could trade the top-11 rights to the pick before the draft - even today?

It seems to me that teams should be able to trade the same pick to different teams in different ranges, as long as the ranges are non-overlapping.

The complicating issue in this specific case is that if Sac doesn't convey the 2014 pick to CLE, then CLE now owns Sac's top-10 protected 2015. So presumably, doing it in this case violates the rule prohibiting teams from trading two consecutive picks...

Am I getting that right?

Correct.  You can't promise a pick to a team when you already have a promised pick that could exist in that year or the next year.  So you can't trade a 2014 when you owe a team a 2014 even it is protected because the protections roll over from year to year.  You can however trade the player drafted immediately and it doesn't affect that rule (the you can't trade picks in consecutive years rule) since you traded a player not a pick.

[BballTim]

Come to think of it I don't feel the need to do it at all. It leaves us with nobody at pg. It sends Avery Bradley to the bench (or even worse over to point)

Who cares?  It's about collecting assets for the next couple of years.

  What kind of assets you collect matters though. If you look at picks in that range (7-12) from 2000 through 2010 you have a couple of players who you'd describe as regulars at all-star games (Amare and Joe Johnson) and another player who probably will be (Paul George). That's out of 66 picks. So the odds of getting a player who will likely go to as many all-star games as Rondo already has from 2 picks in that range (McLemore and the pick you'd get back) is less than 1 in 10.

  Obviously all-star appearances aren't the best measuring stick for players, but the odds of getting back a player even close to as good as Rondo are pretty slim. That's a really poor return for a player that's still near the beginning of his prime.

[PhoSita]

If the Kings have one of the worst 5 records in the league at the time, McLemore looks like a legitimate prospect, they throw in Fredette or Thomas, and they take on one of our veteran contracts (Lee, Bass, Wallace), then I say yes.