Green at Power Forward (ala James Worthy)

[Vermont Green]

Like many I am sure, I have been playing around with various line up options.  The problem is that two of our likely best players (Green and Wallace) play the same position.  If we could play Green at PF and be successful (which may be a relative measure this season) it would solve some problems.

I hate to say it and I suspect many will disagree but I think a top priority has to be getting Wallace comfortable and playing well.  I prefer to see Wallace playing his natural position (SF) and mind less seeing Green out of position.  To me this is all about trade value for Wallace.

I think the main problem with Green at PF is rebounding.  Otherwise, I see a lot of James Worthy in Green.  So why can't Green work on rebounding like Rondo is working on his shot?  Make this a focus.  Green, you go rebound.  Green could still play say 16 min at SF and 16 min at PF so for 16 min each game, focus on rebounding. (at least until we trade Wallace for a young center, and an expiring veteran contract).

Thoughts?

[Snakehead]

If Green was a better rebounder I'd agree with you but so far he just hasn't been.

I like Green at SF and Wallace at PF more than Green there.

[RJ87]

Jeff played primarily at at PF in OKC and was resoundingly mediocre. And Gerald is actually a better 4 than a 3 imo, I thought the Nets were a better team last year when they played Gerald and Lopez as their bigs. But Gerald does have a concussion history, so maybe he plays the 4 on offense, but covers the 3 on defense and vice versa for Jeff.

[gpap]

So the starting five on opening night is going to be

PG-Bradley
SG-Jeff Green
SF-Jeff Green
PF-Jeff Green
C-Jeff Green

Back to the original point, I wouldn't start JG at PF because I think he's more of a 2/3 type wing player.

I'd personally rather put together a lineup of Bradley, Green, Wallace, Sully, Humphries.

That way you have more athleticism at the 2 and 3 with Green and Crash and more size at the 4 and 5 with Sully and Humphries.

[Galeto]

Jeff played primarily at at PF in OKC and was resoundingly mediocre. And Gerald is actually a better 4 than a 3 imo, I thought the Nets were a better team last year when they played Gerald and Lopez as their bigs. But Gerald does have a concussion history, so maybe he plays the 4 on offense, but covers the 3 on defense and vice versa for Jeff.

This would not be good for Green.  He's been much better offensively at small forward and much worse defensively at power forward.  Wallace has the same split offensively as Green but he holds up better defensively at power forward than Green.

What does even playing the 4 on offense even mean?  Neither guy is going to change how they play.  Basketball's not like football with designated route trees for different positions.  Further, they don't get to dictate who defends them (besides forcing switches).  It's not like Stevens can call out, "Wallace is the 4 on offense ref, make sure the 4 is defending him."

[Galeto]

Like many I am sure, I have been playing around with various line up options.  The problem is that two of our likely best players (Green and Wallace) play the same position.  If we could play Green at PF and be successful (which may be a relative measure this season) it would solve some problems.

I hate to say it and I suspect many will disagree but I think a top priority has to be getting Wallace comfortable and playing well.  I prefer to see Wallace playing his natural position (SF) and mind less seeing Green out of position.  To me this is all about trade value for Wallace.

I think the main problem with Green at PF is rebounding.  Otherwise, I see a lot of James Worthy in Green.  So why can't Green work on rebounding like Rondo is working on his shot?  Make this a focus.  Green, you go rebound.  Green could still play say 16 min at SF and 16 min at PF so for 16 min each game, focus on rebounding. (at least until we trade Wallace for a young center, and an expiring veteran contract).

Thoughts?

James Worthy was a power forward? 

[moiso]

Jeff played primarily at at PF in OKC and was resoundingly mediocre. And Gerald is actually a better 4 than a 3 imo, I thought the Nets were a better team last year when they played Gerald and Lopez as their bigs. But Gerald does have a concussion history, so maybe he plays the 4 on offense, but covers the 3 on defense and vice versa for Jeff.

This would not be good for Green.  He's been much better offensively at small forward and much worse defensively at power forward.  Wallace has the same split offensively as Green but he holds up better defensively at power forward than Green.

What does even playing the 4 on offense even mean?  Neither guy is going to change how they play.  Basketball's not like football with designated route trees for different positions.  Further, they don't get to dictate who defends them (besides forcing switches).  It's not like Stevens can call out, "Wallace is the 4 on offense ref, make sure the 4 is defending him."

Green has been much better offensively at the 4 (PER around 20 vs around 9 as a 3).  You are right that Green is much better at the 3 defensively. 

Playing 4 on offense means that an opposing 4 will probably be guarding him... in which case Green blows by and gets to the rim.  He doesn't have the same quickness advantage if a 3 is guarding him.

[Galeto]

Jeff played primarily at at PF in OKC and was resoundingly mediocre. And Gerald is actually a better 4 than a 3 imo, I thought the Nets were a better team last year when they played Gerald and Lopez as their bigs. But Gerald does have a concussion history, so maybe he plays the 4 on offense, but covers the 3 on defense and vice versa for Jeff.

This would not be good for Green.  He's been much better offensively at small forward and much worse defensively at power forward.  Wallace has the same split offensively as Green but he holds up better defensively at power forward than Green.

What does even playing the 4 on offense even mean?  Neither guy is going to change how they play.  Basketball's not like football with designated route trees for different positions.  Further, they don't get to dictate who defends them (besides forcing switches).  It's not like Stevens can call out, "Wallace is the 4 on offense ref, make sure the 4 is defending him."

Green has been much better offensively at the 4 (PER around 20 vs around 9 as a 3).  You are right that Green is much better at the 3 defensively. 

Playing 4 on offense means that an opposing 4 will probably be guarding him... in which case Green blows by and gets to the rim.  He doesn't have the same quickness advantage if a 3 is guarding him.

But getting a power forward to defend Green isn't as simple as declaring him a power forward.  The only lineup that would guarantee that a traditional and slower power forward defends Green is to play three smaller guards on the perimeter from some combination of Bradley, Lee, Brooks and Crawford.  But in this scenario, Green is forced to defend power forwards and also reboud like one, which are his weaknesses.

If Wallace and Green are the 3/4 pairing, I assume Green will get the better perimeter defender most of the time but whoever is hot is going to dictate how the defense also matches up.

[2short]

Jeff Green at small forward is a low box matchup problem for most teams in the league.  He's a legit 6'9" guy with a nice post up game (under used game mind you).  I'd love to see him on the low block as well as KO.  Give sully or bass  that paul silas mid range open jumper for floor spacing.
Last year the duo of pierce and green at both forwards was fine, this years team we have a log jam at pf and sg.  I can't see many minutes at pf for green, even if ko and humphries get center minutes.

[nickagneta]

When the heck did James Worthy ever play PF? When Worthy was playing Kurt Rambis, Mitch Kupchak, Larry Spriggs, AC Green, Mychal Thompson and a host of lesser players ate up every minute at the PF position.

Jeff Green is a poor PF and no amount of playing him there will make him a better rebounder. Play him where he belongs....SF.

[the_Bird]

Gerald Wallace seems like the much better candidate to play at the PF spot - although his concussion history may come into play.  I remember reading some quotes about his not being as comfortable playing inside due to the concussions, but we'll have to see - if they're impacting his ability to bang around, he may not be able to play much of anywhere.

[Endless Paradise]

So the starting five on opening night is going to be

PG-Bradley
SG-Jeff Green
SF-Jeff Green
PF-Jeff Green
C-Jeff Green

Back to the original point, I wouldn't start JG at PF because I think he's more of a 2/3 type wing player.

I'd personally rather put together a lineup of Bradley, Green, Wallace, Sully, Humphries.

That way you have more athleticism at the 2 and 3 with Green and Crash and more size at the 4 and 5 with Sully and Humphries.

Not enough spacing with that lineup.  Guys like Hump and Sullinger would be better paired off with a big man with a shot (Olynyk or Bass).

[billysan]

When the heck did James Worthy ever play PF? When Worthy was playing Kurt Rambis, Mitch Kupchak, Larry Spriggs, AC Green, Mychal Thompson and a host of lesser players ate up every minute at the PF position.

Jeff Green is a poor PF and no amount of playing him there will make him a better rebounder. Play him where he belongs....SF.

There is some famous footage out there, havent found it yet, that has McHale backing down Worthy in the post and Worthy steps back and lets McHale fall on his backside. He didnt play much PF, but he did matchup with McHale a few times and against Bird when Bird was the PF (Wedman at SF).I think Jamaal Wilkes was the SF with Worthy at the PF a few times if memory serves. It wasnt a regular thing I dont think.

Completely agre with the comment that Green is much better suited to play PF. I think the better scenario is to let Wallace come of the bench like Posey minus the 3pt shot. He can cover a couple positions and is capable of putting the ball in the basket.

[nickagneta]

When the heck did James Worthy ever play PF? When Worthy was playing Kurt Rambis, Mitch Kupchak, Larry Spriggs, AC Green, Mychal Thompson and a host of lesser players ate up every minute at the PF position.

Jeff Green is a poor PF and no amount of playing him there will make him a better rebounder. Play him where he belongs....SF.

There is some famous footage out there, havent found it yet, that has McHale backing down Worthy in the post and Worthy steps back and lets McHale fall on his backside. He didnt play much PF, but he did matchup with McHale a few times and against Bird when Bird was the PF (Wedman at SF).I think Jamaal Wilkes was the SF with Worthy at the PF a few times if memory serves. It wasnt a regular thing I dont think.

Completely agre with the comment that Green is much better suited to play PF. I think the better scenario is to let Wallace come of the bench like Posey minus the 3pt shot. He can cover a couple positions and is capable of putting the ball in the basket.

Its called McHale getting Worthy in a switch and having to guard a PF during a game.....not Worthy playing PF. If Worthy realy played more than 96 to 144 minutes at PF his entire career combined, I would be extremely surprised.

And while I agree that Green is better suited to play power forward than Wallace, that's like saying Bradley is better suited to play PG than Courtney Lee. Neither Lee nor Bradley are PGs and neither Green nor Wallace are PFs.

[Celtics18]

When the heck did James Worthy ever play PF? When Worthy was playing Kurt Rambis, Mitch Kupchak, Larry Spriggs, AC Green, Mychal Thompson and a host of lesser players ate up every minute at the PF position.

Jeff Green is a poor PF and no amount of playing him there will make him a better rebounder. Play him where he belongs....SF.

There is some famous footage out there, havent found it yet, that has McHale backing down Worthy in the post and Worthy steps back and lets McHale fall on his backside. He didnt play much PF, but he did matchup with McHale a few times and against Bird when Bird was the PF (Wedman at SF).I think Jamaal Wilkes was the SF with Worthy at the PF a few times if memory serves. It wasnt a regular thing I dont think.

Completely agre with the comment that Green is much better suited to play PF. I think the better scenario is to let Wallace come of the bench like Posey minus the 3pt shot. He can cover a couple positions and is capable of putting the ball in the basket.

Its called McHale getting Worthy in a switch and having to guard a PF during a game.....not Worthy playing PF. If Worthy realy played more than 96 to 144 minutes at PF his entire career combined, I would be extremely surprised.

And while I agree that Green is better suited to play power forward than Wallace, that's like saying Bradley is better suited to play PG than Courtney Lee. Neither Lee nor Bradley are PGs and neither Green nor Wallace are PFs.

Worthy was the starting power forward for the Lakers during the '84 season.