CB Random Conversations. Stretch Four or Three and D Wing?

[Yoki_IsTheName]

It has become a topic of me and my basketball friend over drinks (well not me, i dont drink) a while ago and it became an excellent basketball talking point. So I'm giving it a shot and posting the topic here and maybe start some interesting conversations.

In today's NBA, where pick and rolls are king, the first thing every team needs is stretching the floor. Two roles have been prominent and to me, has become a key in this kind of offense, the stretch 4 and the three and D wing.

To quickly define what we mean, the 3-and-D is either a SG or SF who shoots a good percentage beyond the arc, mostly on spot ups and plays good man to man defense. The Stretch 4 is a guy who can play mid range, shoots well from 15-18 feet, and plays good interior defense and rebounds well.

The debate is, who would you rather have on your team? While it's great if you can have both, you can only choose one...

[Roy H.]

That wouldn't necessarily be my definition of "stretch 4", but between the options you listed, give me the PF.

A guy with range out to 18 feet who plays defense and is a plus-rebounder?  Yes, please.

[BleedGreen1989]

Stretch four.

I feel a 3&D guy is easier to find than an efficient stretch four.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

That wouldn't necessarily be my definition of "stretch 4", but between the options you listed, give me the PF.

A guy with range out to 18 feet who plays defense and is a plus-rebounder?  Yes, please.

Well that was the definition the guys have.

Basically the debate was would you rather have Kawhi Leonard or Serge Ibaka.

[Roy H.]

That wouldn't necessarily be my definition of "stretch 4", but between the options you listed, give me the PF.

A guy with range out to 18 feet who plays defense and is a plus-rebounder?  Yes, please.

Well that was the definition the guys have.

Basically the debate was would you rather have Kawhi Leonard or Serge Ibaka.

Serge Ibaka isn't all that great of an interior defender, and his rebounding isn't that good.

I'll take this guy over both Leonard and Ibaka:

The Stretch 4 is a guy who can play mid range, shoots well from 15-18 feet, and plays good interior defense and rebounds well.

[Fafnir]

That wouldn't necessarily be my definition of "stretch 4", but between the options you listed, give me the PF.

A guy with range out to 18 feet who plays defense and is a plus-rebounder?  Yes, please.

Well that was the definition the guys have.

Basically the debate was would you rather have Kawhi Leonard or Serge Ibaka.

Leonard isn't a 3 & D guy though. Much more talented than that and he showed it in the Finals.

[Who]

Every power forward should have a short (10-15 feet) and mid-range jump-shot (15-18 feet). I would see a stretch four as having further range than that (20+ feet) and usually would only describe a PF with three point range as a stretch four.

[BleedGreen1989]

Every power forward should have a short (10-15 feet) and mid-range jump-shot (15-18 feet). I would see a stretch four as having further range than that (20+ feet) and usually would only describe a PF with three point range as a stretch four.

Agreed. My definition of a stretch four is a PF or C who can efficiently shoot the 3.

[erisred]

Every power forward should have a short (10-15 feet) and mid-range jump-shot (15-18 feet). I would see a stretch four as having further range than that (20+ feet) and usually would only describe a PF with three point range as a stretch four.

Same here. A stretch 4 should have more range than 18 feet.

[mmmmm]

A stretch 4 is a big man who forces an opposing big to come out of the paint in order to defend him.

Whether he goes to 18 feet or beyond the 3PT line is irrelevant.

The point is that, he is someone who is too tall to defend with a small so he forces the opposing team to move a big man out of the paint, thus 'stretching' the interior defense, creating space and a one-on-one matchup for your other big.

Now, all that other stuff about how good he might be at interior D and rebounding - those are extras.

A stretch big with those extras is very valuable.

KG is a stretch big with great D and great rebounding.   Hall of Famer.

Brandon Bass is a stretch big with ... good situational D ... and lame rebounding.

World of difference between those two.

Another rare 'extra' for a stretch big is the ability to put the ball on the floor and actually drive to the hoop without being an instant turnover.   That makes him double-difficult to guard because most big men who might come out of the paint to defend his shot are then at a disadvantage.

KG had that sort of skill in his prime (and still isn't bad).   Dirk, too.

Olynyk looks like he might have that kind of versatile outside-in offense that will make him difficult to defend.   'Not expecting him to be a great interior D kinda guy, though.

[LooseCannon]

If I could get a stretch 4 who plays adequate defense against more traditional PFs, I'd definitely take that over a 3-and-D wing, which are not that hard to find.  If he is a good rebounder with three-point range and defense that is more than merely adequate, that would be excellent.

[Celtics18]

Kelly Olynyk

Avery Bradley

[LilRip]

I think the problem with most stretch 4s are their D and rebounding (e.g. Rashard Lewis), but based on definition given, I'd take the stretch 4 who can rebound and play D rather than a 3&D.

[Fafnir]

Rashard's defense wasn't a problem in his prime at the 4, just the rebounding. Which worked out well enough with Howard at the 5 anyways, the team was always very strong on the glass as a whole.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?