2013 CB Draft: Western Semi Finals: Oklahoma City(2) vs Dallas(3)

[StartOrien]

I could continue on about how the other players really fit well, but it takes away from the argument: The man has Derek Rose and Dwight Howard on his team, and his opponent has no one who can stop them.

What percentage of the time is Dallas going to be able to sucessfully defend that pick and roll, and then rebound the ball?

[Roy H.]

I could continue on about how the other players really fit well, but it takes away from the argument: The man has Derek Rose and Dwight Howard on his team, and his opponent has no one who can stop them.

What percentage of the time is Dallas going to be able to sucessfully defend that pick and roll, and then rebound the ball?

... except for Big Al, who has defended Howard quite well.

But, this argument is ignored because it's inconvenient?

[indeedproceed]

I read the thread, but I mean at the same time, c'mon: it's dwight howard vs. al jefferson

What's more likely, Al Jefferson isn't actually better than Dwight Howard or that Dwight Howard didn't exactly 'wake up' for a couple games in Utah/Minnesota.

One guy was the best player on a team that made the finals, and one hasn't been able to help a team win.

Dwight Howard is obviously a better player overall.  I think 18 games is a significant enough sample size to show that Big Al has limited Howard, though.

I mean, why look at statistics or head to head matchups at all?  Why even make these arguments?  Just vote for the teams with Lebron, Durant, and Howard, no matter how poor their teammates.  (This seems to be the strategy adopted by this year's voters, which I find pretty disappointing, but whatevvs...)

Doesn't it cut both ways though? Steve Nash didn't look like a NBA starter past year, and will be 40 when these games take place, but criticisms of his ability and vitality have been met with dismissals by Dallas and their most ardent supporters. It's not limited to these two teams either. Pau Gasol looked like hot garbage for a good amount of last year, and didn't really even come alive unless he was playing without Kobe or at times without Howard.

Meanwhile, some younger players who look to be on the precipice of stardom, or at least a small notch below that, are greeted with, 'not experienced enough' almost entirely with a few exceptions (Kyrie, Rubio come to mind).

Reputation means a heck of a lot here. So does overall track record. If Im betting real world money, you bet on guys who have shown the ability to carry a real life team above the bar.

[StartOrien]

I could continue on about how the other players really fit well, but it takes away from the argument: The man has Derek Rose and Dwight Howard on his team, and his opponent has no one who can stop them.

What percentage of the time is Dallas going to be able to sucessfully defend that pick and roll, and then rebound the ball?

... except for Big Al, who has defended Howard quite well.

But, this argument is ignored because it's inconvenient?

I ignore it for the reasons I stated before, and that Derek Rose wasn't his point guard.

Steve Nash and Al Jefferson are about as bad as it gets when it comes to defense for their position, and they have to defend 2 uber athletic MVP candidates in a pick and roll game.

How?

I just don't see how they come anywhere close to stopping it, and again, if they do, securing a rebound when Howard's rolling and Jefferson has to pop out on Rose.

[indeedproceed]

I think the argument against the pick and roll that Dallas has is that they have among the best team defenders in the league at the 3 and 4 to aid in all thinks Dwerrick Roward

[StartOrien]

I think the argument against the pick and roll that Dallas has is that they have among the best team defenders in the league at the 3 and 4 to aid in all thinks Dwerrick Roward

But do they have the quickness to help and then recover against some fairly decent shooters? Can't really see it. Though I guess you could have Smith completely sag off Gibson/Haslem and try to force them into beating them there.

Help d or not, that initial step Rose is going to be able to get in all situations is going to be pretty tough for anyone to stop.

[Roy H.]

I could continue on about how the other players really fit well, but it takes away from the argument: The man has Derek Rose and Dwight Howard on his team, and his opponent has no one who can stop them.

What percentage of the time is Dallas going to be able to sucessfully defend that pick and roll, and then rebound the ball?

... except for Big Al, who has defended Howard quite well.

But, this argument is ignored because it's inconvenient?

I ignore it for the reasons I stated before, and that Derek Rose wasn't his point guard.

Steve Nash and Al Jefferson are about as bad as it gets when it comes to defense for their position, and they have to defend 2 uber athletic MVP candidates in a pick and roll game.

How?

I just don't see how they come anywhere close to stopping it, and again, if they do, securing a rebound when Howard's rolling and Jefferson has to pop out on Rose.

Big Al isn't "as bad as it gets" on defense, though.

I made this argument when BigAlTheFuture drafted him:  Big Al is just fine as a defender when he can guard the post.  He's like Shaq was when he played for the Celtics.  Shaq, like Big Al, was a competent post defender.  If you put him next to a another big, slower player, it will be a failure.  If you put him next to good wing defenders, though, he'll be fine.

It's shocking to me, I guess, that people argue that 18 games isn't a sufficient sample size.  But, D12 has won one other undeserved CelticsBlog championship ( ), so it doesn't surprise me that people are deferring to star power.

[StartOrien]

It's not his post defense against Howard that is a concern, it's him having to come out of his comfort zone which OKC is going to make him do everytime Nash is in the game.

[indeedproceed]

It's shocking to me, I guess, that people argue that 18 games isn't a sufficient sample size.  But, D12 has one other undeserved CelticsBlog championship ( ), so it doesn't surprise me that people are deferring to star power.

Said Roy Hobbs two years too late. Or is it 3?

[indeedproceed]

It's not his post defense against Howard that is a concern, it's him having to come out of his comfort zone which OKC is going to make him do everytime Nash is in the game.

That's a valid point. Nash is pretty much conceding Rose wherever he wants to go, so Al, Deng, and Smith will constantly be in a state of help defense.

How have teams that have beaten Chicago deal with this when their point was so woefully equipped?

[StartOrien]

It's shocking to me, I guess, that people argue that 18 games isn't a sufficient sample size.  But, D12 has one other undeserved CelticsBlog championship ( ), so it doesn't surprise me that people are deferring to star power.

Said Roy Hobbs two years too late. Or is it 3?

3. I've drafted two after, and held out this year.

[Roy H.]

It's shocking to me, I guess, that people argue that 18 games isn't a sufficient sample size.  But, D12 has one other undeserved CelticsBlog championship ( ), so it doesn't surprise me that people are deferring to star power.

Said Roy Hobbs two years too late. Or is it 3?

No, I told you all how wrong you were at the time, as well. 

I don't think my young Aussie friend has a chance in this matchup.  That's unfortunate, because I think he's got a better team but is getting railroaded by star power.  But, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right, if nothing else.

At least you guys have taken the time to read the thread.  You'll make the wrong decision, but at least you'll have been presented the information.  (I feel the same way about the last election, too.  .  And I'm still right.)

[StartOrien]

And again, to be 100% clear - not voting.

[indeedproceed]

It's shocking to me, I guess, that people argue that 18 games isn't a sufficient sample size.  But, D12 has one other undeserved CelticsBlog championship ( ), so it doesn't surprise me that people are deferring to star power.

Said Roy Hobbs two years too late. Or is it 3?

No, I told you all how wrong you were at the time, as well. 

I don't think my young Aussie friend has a chance in this matchup.  That's unfortunate, because I think he's got a better team but is getting railroaded by star power.  But, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right, if nothing else.

At least you guys have taken the time to read the thread.  You'll make the wrong decision, but at least you'll have been presented the information.  (I feel the same way about the last election, too.  .  And I'm still right.)

You know that Boston team is going to look like a winner come next spring. You just know it. Unless Irving or Gasol suffer major injuries; you know you'll be hearing about that.

[Roy H.]

It's shocking to me, I guess, that people argue that 18 games isn't a sufficient sample size.  But, D12 has one other undeserved CelticsBlog championship ( ), so it doesn't surprise me that people are deferring to star power.

Said Roy Hobbs two years too late. Or is it 3?

No, I told you all how wrong you were at the time, as well. 

I don't think my young Aussie friend has a chance in this matchup.  That's unfortunate, because I think he's got a better team but is getting railroaded by star power.  But, I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that I was right, if nothing else.

At least you guys have taken the time to read the thread.  You'll make the wrong decision, but at least you'll have been presented the information.  (I feel the same way about the last election, too.  .  And I'm still right.)

You know that Boston team is going to look like a winner come next spring. You just know it. Unless Irving or Gasol suffer major injuries; you know you'll be hearing about that.

Boston is looking good for the 2016 championship, assuming they move Gasol for somebody who can help in a few years.