Mark Cuban quote on tanking.

[LilRip]

OKC didnt have a winning culture before westbrook and durant and harden. now look

And they haven't won anything still either and I don't see them winning it all anytime soon.

oh right, because Westbrook and Durant are already way past their primes. sure they haven't won a championship but if OKC offered us Westbrook-Durant-Ibaka for Rondo-Green-Olynyk or Sully (assuming the salaries magically work), i'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

[European NBA fan]

OKC didnt have a winning culture before westbrook and durant and harden. now look

And they haven't won anything still either and I don't see them winning it all anytime soon.

oh right, because Westbrook and Durant are already way past their primes. sure they haven't won a championship but if OKC offered us Westbrook-Durant-Ibaka for Rondo-Green-Olynyk or Sully (assuming the salaries magically work), i'd do that trade in a heartbeat.

People are not knocking on their talent. It is outstanding. But they are questioning whether it is easy to overcome tanking and install a winning culture. Look at Cavs, Pistons, Bobcats, Wizards aso who have all tried to copy OKC, but have been left with less talent. And none of them have been in the playoffs while doing that. And with Oden in stead of Durant, OKC would probably have been a borderline lottery team for the last three or four seasons.

[crimson_stallion]

Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka.  Take a look at that list of players for a minute.  It's not like OKC ranked one season, drafted Durant, then instantly became elite.  They sucked royally and we're one of the worst teams in the league for years to come, and it took a Freakishly abnormal amount of draft luck for them to pick up all of those players and eventually become who they are today.  Drafting success like that probably happens once in every two decades, If that.  Still despite all of this how many titles have they won? None. 

Do you people really believe that if Boston tanks this year, we will suddenly end up with 4-5 exceptional players via the draft over the next few years? UnlIkely.  Maybe we'll get lucky and pick up the next LeBron James, and then we will become today's Cleveland Cavs.  Oh wait.  That's not much to aim for is it?

Or we can give our top players (Rondo, Green) a chance to really shine, and then add a greatffree agent in the near future the way Lakers (Gasol), Heat (Lebron, Bosh), Celtics (Pierce, Garnett) did.  I go with option two.

[Boris Badenov]

Durant, Green, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka.  Take a look at that list of players for a minute.  It's not like OKC ranked one season, drafted Durant, then instantly became elite.  They sucked royally and we're one of the worst teams in the league for years to come, and it took a Freakishly abnormal amount of draft luck for them to pick up all of those players and eventually become who they are today.  Drafting success like that probably happens once in every two decades, If that.  Still despite all of this how many titles have they won? None. 

Do you people really believe that if Boston tanks this year, we will suddenly end up with 4-5 exceptional players via the draft over the next few years? UnlIkely.  Maybe we'll get lucky and pick up the next LeBron James, and then we will become today's Cleveland Cavs.  Oh wait.  That's not much to aim for is it?

Or we can give our top players (Rondo, Green) a chance to really shine, and then add a greatffree agent in the near future the way Lakers (Gasol), Heat (Lebron, Bosh), Celtics (Pierce, Garnett) did.  I go with option two.

Um, Pierce and KG were not free agents. We drafted Pierce and we traded for KG.

And just to further clarify, we actually "sucked royally" for a while and built the assets that led us to a championship through the draft and trades. Not one free agent signee was a starter on our championship team.

[sed522002]

Everyone has their own definition of what tanking is and their own opinion. I, personally, don't want them intentionally losing games. If they're trying, but still manage to lose then it is what it is. I just don't want to see a bunch of teams this season mailing it in to be a top 5 for this draft.

[Boris Badenov]

"A quick story. The week I bought the Mavs I was asked by Nellie if I wanted to bag the season in order to get the best draft pick that we could. My response was “No. At some point this franchise has to learn how to win and develop a culture of winning. You don't create that culture by tanking the season. I don't know how many games we can win, but we are going to try to win every one of them.” Thank goodness we didn't tank the season It wasn't a very good draft. And that turn around for the rest of the season helped define who we were and are to this day."

This view is irrelevant for our current situation.

We tanked ONE YEAR BEFORE winning our last championship. So, either
(a) It's a heck of a lot easier to "develop a culture of winning" than Cuban thinks, or;
(b) Our culture of winning as the Celtics is strong enough to overcome a year of tanking - and very quickly, at that.

In either case, tanking this coming year wouldn't hurt us.

[European NBA fan]

"A quick story. The week I bought the Mavs I was asked by Nellie if I wanted to bag the season in order to get the best draft pick that we could. My response was “No. At some point this franchise has to learn how to win and develop a culture of winning. You don't create that culture by tanking the season. I don't know how many games we can win, but we are going to try to win every one of them.” Thank goodness we didn't tank the season It wasn't a very good draft. And that turn around for the rest of the season helped define who we were and are to this day."

This view is irrelevant for our current situation.

We tanked ONE YEAR BEFORE winning our last championship. So, either
(a) It's a heck of a lot easier to "develop a culture of winning" than Cuban thinks, or;
(b) Our culture of winning as the Celtics is strong enough to overcome a year of tanking - and very quickly, at that.

In either case, tanking this coming year wouldn't hurt us.

The Celtics are the perfect example that it is NOT easy, and that you have to make BIG changes to get there.

First of all we got Kevin Garnett, who everybody says changed the Celtics culture. Secondly Doc had to revisit his basketball philosophy and come up with Ubuntu to get everybody on the same page. That's two pretty huge steps. And it might not have worked with bigger egos.

PS. Getting Kevin Garnett was not easy, either. Danny had to wait a couple of years for that kind of trade, after the decision to go in that direction had been made.

[LarBrd33]

The players and coaches don't have to tank.  The GM takes care of it for them.  This year for instance, Boston will be lucky to win 30 games with this crop of players.

[LooseCannon]

OKC didnt have a winning culture before westbrook and durant and harden. now look

Seattle/OKC did not tank, they just had bad teams around mid 2000's

They were a great team in the 90's.

I think the perception out there is that the Sonics tanked...not to get draft picks but to make it easier to relocate to OKC.

[Boris Badenov]

"A quick story. The week I bought the Mavs I was asked by Nellie if I wanted to bag the season in order to get the best draft pick that we could. My response was “No. At some point this franchise has to learn how to win and develop a culture of winning. You don't create that culture by tanking the season. I don't know how many games we can win, but we are going to try to win every one of them.” Thank goodness we didn't tank the season It wasn't a very good draft. And that turn around for the rest of the season helped define who we were and are to this day."

This view is irrelevant for our current situation.

We tanked ONE YEAR BEFORE winning our last championship. So, either
(a) It's a heck of a lot easier to "develop a culture of winning" than Cuban thinks, or;
(b) Our culture of winning as the Celtics is strong enough to overcome a year of tanking - and very quickly, at that.

In either case, tanking this coming year wouldn't hurt us.

The Celtics are the perfect example that it is NOT easy, and that you have to make BIG changes to get there.

First of all we got Kevin Garnett, who everybody says changed the Celtics culture. Secondly Doc had to revisit his basketball philosophy and come up with Ubuntu to get everybody on the same page. That's two pretty huge steps. And it might not have worked with bigger egos.

PS. Getting Kevin Garnett was not easy, either. Danny had to wait a couple of years for that kind of trade, after the decision to go in that direction had been made.

I'm not sure why what you're saying here would constitute a response to my post.

Of course it's not easy to get better, and of course it requires big changes. Those things are pretty obvious.

I'm just saying that Cuban's view that tanking poisons a franchise is directly contradicted by the Celtics' transformation from 2007 to 2008. So, either he's wrong, or the Celtics are different from the Mavs.

[European NBA fan]

"A quick story. The week I bought the Mavs I was asked by Nellie if I wanted to bag the season in order to get the best draft pick that we could. My response was “No. At some point this franchise has to learn how to win and develop a culture of winning. You don't create that culture by tanking the season. I don't know how many games we can win, but we are going to try to win every one of them.” Thank goodness we didn't tank the season It wasn't a very good draft. And that turn around for the rest of the season helped define who we were and are to this day."

This view is irrelevant for our current situation.

We tanked ONE YEAR BEFORE winning our last championship. So, either
(a) It's a heck of a lot easier to "develop a culture of winning" than Cuban thinks, or;
(b) Our culture of winning as the Celtics is strong enough to overcome a year of tanking - and very quickly, at that.

In either case, tanking this coming year wouldn't hurt us.

The Celtics are the perfect example that it is NOT easy, and that you have to make BIG changes to get there.

First of all we got Kevin Garnett, who everybody says changed the Celtics culture. Secondly Doc had to revisit his basketball philosophy and come up with Ubuntu to get everybody on the same page. That's two pretty huge steps. And it might not have worked with bigger egos.

PS. Getting Kevin Garnett was not easy, either. Danny had to wait a couple of years for that kind of trade, after the decision to go in that direction had been made.

I'm not sure why what you're saying here would constitute a response to my post.

Of course it's not easy to get better, and of course it requires big changes. Those things are pretty obvious.

I'm just saying that Cuban's view that tanking poisons a franchise is directly contradicted by the Celtics' transformation from 2007 to 2008. So, either he's wrong, or the Celtics are different from the Mavs.

And I'm just saying that there are plenty of examples of the opposite (Wizards, Bobcats, Raptors, Pistons and more) and that the Celtics are the only team in recent years that have made the transition from tanking losers to champions.

[guava_wrench]

"A quick story. The week I bought the Mavs I was asked by Nellie if I wanted to bag the season in order to get the best draft pick that we could. My response was “No. At some point this franchise has to learn how to win and develop a culture of winning. You don't create that culture by tanking the season. I don't know how many games we can win, but we are going to try to win every one of them.” Thank goodness we didn't tank the season It wasn't a very good draft. And that turn around for the rest of the season helped define who we were and are to this day."

This view is irrelevant for our current situation.

We tanked ONE YEAR BEFORE winning our last championship. So, either
(a) It's a heck of a lot easier to "develop a culture of winning" than Cuban thinks, or;
(b) Our culture of winning as the Celtics is strong enough to overcome a year of tanking - and very quickly, at that.

In either case, tanking this coming year wouldn't hurt us.

The Celtics are the perfect example that it is NOT easy, and that you have to make BIG changes to get there.

First of all we got Kevin Garnett, who everybody says changed the Celtics culture. Secondly Doc had to revisit his basketball philosophy and come up with Ubuntu to get everybody on the same page. That's two pretty huge steps. And it might not have worked with bigger egos.

PS. Getting Kevin Garnett was not easy, either. Danny had to wait a couple of years for that kind of trade, after the decision to go in that direction had been made.

I'm not sure why what you're saying here would constitute a response to my post.

Of course it's not easy to get better, and of course it requires big changes. Those things are pretty obvious.

I'm just saying that Cuban's view that tanking poisons a franchise is directly contradicted by the Celtics' transformation from 2007 to 2008. So, either he's wrong, or the Celtics are different from the Mavs.

Yeah, you can't generalize his statement. It doesn't work. Ultimately, the character and skill of the players is what matters. Sometimes you get a disaster like the Wizards and you have to do a mini-blowup (like they did over the last few years) to reboot.

Really, all that matters is if tanking got you the superstar you needed. If it gets you the Duncan, job well done. If it doesn't, prepare for another year of being bad. When tanking doesn't get you the pick, you are left with a bad team. Losing isn't a culture in that case, it is just a product of not being good.

[Boris Badenov]

"A quick story. The week I bought the Mavs I was asked by Nellie if I wanted to bag the season in order to get the best draft pick that we could. My response was “No. At some point this franchise has to learn how to win and develop a culture of winning. You don't create that culture by tanking the season. I don't know how many games we can win, but we are going to try to win every one of them.” Thank goodness we didn't tank the season It wasn't a very good draft. And that turn around for the rest of the season helped define who we were and are to this day."

This view is irrelevant for our current situation.

We tanked ONE YEAR BEFORE winning our last championship. So, either
(a) It's a heck of a lot easier to "develop a culture of winning" than Cuban thinks, or;
(b) Our culture of winning as the Celtics is strong enough to overcome a year of tanking - and very quickly, at that.

In either case, tanking this coming year wouldn't hurt us.

The Celtics are the perfect example that it is NOT easy, and that you have to make BIG changes to get there.

First of all we got Kevin Garnett, who everybody says changed the Celtics culture. Secondly Doc had to revisit his basketball philosophy and come up with Ubuntu to get everybody on the same page. That's two pretty huge steps. And it might not have worked with bigger egos.

PS. Getting Kevin Garnett was not easy, either. Danny had to wait a couple of years for that kind of trade, after the decision to go in that direction had been made.

I'm not sure why what you're saying here would constitute a response to my post.

Of course it's not easy to get better, and of course it requires big changes. Those things are pretty obvious.

I'm just saying that Cuban's view that tanking poisons a franchise is directly contradicted by the Celtics' transformation from 2007 to 2008. So, either he's wrong, or the Celtics are different from the Mavs.

And I'm just saying that there are plenty of examples of the opposite (Wizards, Bobcats, Raptors, Pistons and more) and that the Celtics are the only team in recent years that have made the transition from tanking losers to champions.

I'm not sure how what you're saying differs from "more teams don't win championships than do win championships."

If you pick any strategy - whether it's getting high picks, or signing free agents, or making smart trades, or some combination - there are going to be more losers than winners for each strategy. Only one team wins a championship  and many don't each year.

And the Celts are not the first team to be very bad and then win a championship, or even more than one, in short order. The Spurs did it too. So did the Celtics in the 1980s.

Cuban's entitled to his opinion but it's not like he uncovered some great truth that applies to the Celtics' situation right now.

[Eja117]

OKC didnt have a winning culture before westbrook and durant and harden. now look

I don't know if I'd say they tanked for those guys.  The worst teams rarely win the lotto.  The Cavs. They won the Bron sweepstakes. Now look.

[greg683x]

even if okc did tank, you know what the odds are of landing talent like harden, westbrook, and durant in a cluster like they did are? 

theyre the exception not the rule to live by.


i also think building a culture of winning depends on the type of players youre dealt with as much as it does the coaching.

As much as the celtics franchise did have a culture of winning, it was somewhat lost by the time the 07-08 season rolled around.  It was Kevin Garnett the brought the winning attitude back here