Brad Stevens: There will be no tanking

[Finkelskyhook]

I really don't get the fascination with getting the 8 seed, missing out on the best lottery in 11 years and getting swept in the first round.  I would fire Stevens if we get the 8th seed without hesitation.

I get it.  You put your best effort to win forward for your paying fans...For your players...For a winning culture..So your players develop and have value...So you don't have to gut the entire team to get a franchise player if the opportunity arises....Most importantly...You just hired a coach on a long term guaranty....You don't ask him to sell his soul.

[JHTruth]

I'm not sure what anyone thought he would say:

"Guys we stink. Don't bother tuning in this year because good god have you seen this roster? Pray for lotto balls"..

We have the best PG in the NBA...We have....For the first time in years...One of the best rebounders in the NBA.  We have great athletes for wing players.  One of the best defensive guards in the NBA.  Two of our last 3 1st rounders have great BB IQs and are ready to play.

Doesn't look like a roster that stinks to me.

I appreciate your optimism but a more realistic take would be Rondo will be slowly returning after a blown ACL, will a mess of games, Hump is being sent packing ASAP, Bradley is simply mediocre and the young players are young players

[lightspeed5]

I really don't get the fascination with getting the 8 seed, missing out on the best lottery in 11 years and getting swept in the first round.  I would fire Stevens if we get the 8th seed without hesitation.

I get it.  You put your best effort to win forward for your paying fans...For your players...For a winning culture..So your players develop and have value...So you don't have to gut the entire team to get a franchise player if the opportunity arises....Most importantly...You just hired a coach on a long term guaranty....You don't ask him to sell his soul.

enough with the "winning culture" excuse... OKC didnt have a "winning culture" after they traded ray allen, look at them now.

this is a business, and we need to do what it takes to get back to the contender level. tank time. olynyk and kris "DNP-CP" Humphries will not win us a championship, just letting you know.

[PhoSita]

In other words, if Danny is following your strategy, the Stevens selection carries minimal risk of deviating from the 'tank' plan given the weight of the weakness of the roster.

Otherwise, there is definitely more than a bit of inconsistency to your 'logic'.

No inconsistency.  I think the roster we have right now is pretty awful, especially when you take injuries into consideration (players recovering now and injuries likely to come in-season).

I also expect Danny to unload one or two of the veterans (Lee / Bass / Humphries) before the season starts.

Even if the roster stays more or less as it is now, I'd expect this team to win approximately 30 games, plus or minus 3 or 4.

As for win-now coaches Danny might have targeted, well, I mean, any of the guys who have actual NBA head coaching experience would be on my list.  I believe Hollins and Karl are still looking for jobs.  Danny didn't even consider any assistant coaches (e.g. Brian Shaw).

[BASS_THUMPER]

this is a eastern conference finals team..

players with names in lights and shoes named after them cant promise a ring..looking at are summer league games we got some talent.hidden jewels
shock and awe
im goin to enjoy watching this team run fools over

[WeMadeIt17]

This team isn't a tanking team. Its a very strange young/deep team. Its like we are deep at different spots. We are deep at SG and PF yet Center we don't have starter for. Idk. I am hoping there is another move. Would love to get a 3rd team in and try to get Aldridge from Portland. Would be a great player to have next to Rondo and would be a good fit next to KO in future years. But yeah this team i think is to good to be the worst in the league. Obviously we aren't any higher then a 7th seed. So no it would have to be a very obvious tank if we did. Like holding Sully and Rondo out for a good amount of time.

[bfrombleacher]

I know he's lying and so is Ainge.

Trust me I'm a psychic 

[Casperian]

Phosita didn't say anything about rebuilding as different from tanking. 

True. I said it.

He said

It's not the coach's job to "tank."

The original premise by Phosita was that it is the GM who tanks, not the coach.

And I agree with him.
I also think using the term "tank" was a poor choice of words by him.

Now, if you feel that Danny is NOT tanking, and instead is simply "rebuilding" with the intent to go ahead and try to still win games, then that's a different premise.   One that I don't disagree with.

Good.

Danny gave Stevens a 6 year contract.  He must be comfortable with the idea that Stevens might be coaching a playoff team at some point during that.

I´m hoping for exactly the same thing.

I think this all boils down to then, is that you think the _roster_ that Danny is putting on the floor this fall is going to be so weak that even IF Stevens somehow gets it to out-perform expectations by a few wins, it will still comfortably miss the playoffs.

In other words, if Danny is following your strategy, the Stevens selection carries minimal risk of deviating from the 'tank' plan given the weight of the weakness of the roster.

Pretty much. I don´t think we´ll win 30 games with this roster, not even with a healthy Rondo.

I´d love to be proven wrong, though. That´s Stevens´ job.


Sullinger is a sophomore coming from an injury to his chronically injured back.
Olynyk is a rookie.
Bradley has shown major weaknesses in his offense.
Jeff Green still has to prove he can be the go-to scorer on a NBA team. A few 40 points games don´t prove anything.
Rondo is coming off major injury.

These are supposedly our most important players next season, and each and every one of them has something to prove. It should be obvious that Danny isn´t really banking on anything with this roster. There isn´t one guy where you can say "He´ll undoubtedly bring it next season."

The objective for this year is to see what our guys are made of, to clean up our cap situation, and position ourselves for the future.

That´s it.
Not winning games, not losing games.
While not irrelevant to our season, the w-l record is nonetheless irrelevant to our objective this season.

If we lose a lot of games, great, we have a much better draft pick in a loaded draft. If we manage to win a lot of games, great, our guys have just proven themselves, and we have a much clearer picture going forward, along with some extra trade assets.

All of this has nothing to do with intentionally losing games. It has nothing to do with tanking. Which is exactly what the Celtics brass has said since the big trade.

It´s everyone else who calls rebuilding tanking.

[WeMadeIt17]

My only thing is that I do not want to be stuck in at pick 12-14 the next season or two. I wanna either be really bad in be in the convo for the number 1 pick or be decent and be a 5-8th seed in the playoffs. Which this team again is neither. They are that 7-9th spot and not gonna win the lotto. So who knows but this roster just makes me wonder what is gonna happen. I honestly think they could make the playoffs this year, and not making any noise and then be screwed.

[PhoSita]

He said

It's not the coach's job to "tank."

The original premise by Phosita was that it is the GM who tanks, not the coach.

And I agree with him.
I also think using the term "tank" was a poor choice of words by him.

Okay, fine, fair enough.  People are very sensitive about the use of the "T" word these days.

By "tank" -- and in my defense I think this was clear in the context of my whole post -- I meant "not making an effort to put the most competitive roster possible on the floor." 

Related to that is the idea that having such a mindset means that other things are a higher priority -- for example, developing the players we have on the team, and as Casperian said, "seeing what we have." 

Another priority would be getting a top 10 draft pick so that you can add another significant young asset (assuming you make a good pick).


The point I was trying to make was not meant to be a complicated or controversial one.  Simply put, I expect the coach to make the most of what he has.  I expect the GM to look at the big picture and consider the "metagame" of NBA rebuilding, which means that winning the most games possible is not always in the best interests of the franchise.

If the team ends up being middle of the road, either the young players played a lot better than expected (which is great), or the GM didn't do a good enough job clearing out the dead-weight veterans who have reached their ceiling (which is a bad thing).

[nickagneta]

developing the players we have on the team,

Not that you said this but something I want to point something out.

You don't develop players by giving them playing time. Players are developed through coaching off the court not playing on the court. Players are developed in practice, in the weight room, in the video room, through studying and repetition. Once players can prove they can do the things they have to do in those areas, they are rewarded with playing time and execute all the things they have learned in their development.

I don't think there is a professional coach anywhere in the world who doesn't think this way.

At times through injuries, suspensions, roster creation, etc., does it become necessary for a coach to throw players into games that do not deserve playing time? Sure.

But if you think Stevens will be playing Olynyk, Sully, Melo, Iverson, Pressey and other super young players to develop them, I think you will be very disappointed when you see Humphries, Bogans, Wallace, Bass, and Lee getting regular rotation minutes. Why? Because they will be better than the young guys and adjust to new systems and the expectations of what the coach wants faster and better than some, most, if not all of the young guys.

[Casperian]

Okay, fine, fair enough.  People are very sensitive about the use of the "T" word these days.

I wasn´t attacking you, man.
People being sensitive is precisely the reason why I think it was a poor choice of words.
Can´t blame them, though. Short-term, rebuilding sucks just as much as tanking.

The term is overladen with connotations, but since so many people use it to describe the recent events, it´s just convenient for you to use it, too.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

developing the players we have on the team,

Not that you said this but something I want to point something out.

You don't develop players by giving them playing time. Players are developed through coaching off the court not playing on the court. Players are developed in practice, in the weight room, in the video room, through studying and repetition. Once players can prove they can do the things they have to do in those areas, they are rewarded with playing time and execute all the things they have learned in their development.

I don't think there is a professional coach anywhere in the world who doesn't think this way.

At times through injuries, suspensions, roster creation, etc., does it become necessary for a coach to throw players into games that do not deserve playing time? Sure.

But if you think Stevens will be playing Olynyk, Sully, Melo, Iverson, Pressey and other super young players to develop them, I think you will be very disappointed when you see Humphries, Bogans, Wallace, Bass, and Lee getting regular rotation minutes. Why? Because they will be better than the young guys and adjust to new systems and the expectations of what the coach wants faster and better than some, most, if not all of the young guys.

How do you know guys like Sully, Ko, and Pressey will be worse than those guys? I'd take Sully of last year over all of them!

[Casperian]

But if you think Stevens will be playing Olynyk, Sully, Melo, Iverson, Pressey and other super young players to develop them, I think you will be very disappointed when you see Humphries, Bogans, Wallace, Bass, and Lee getting regular rotation minutes. Why? Because they will be better than the young guys and adjust to new systems and the expectations of what the coach wants faster and better than some, most, if not all of the young guys.

I won´t be disappointed. That´s actually more or less what I expect to see at the start of the season. However, we´re not done making moves, yet.

[nickagneta]

developing the players we have on the team,

Not that you said this but something I want to point something out.

You don't develop players by giving them playing time. Players are developed through coaching off the court not playing on the court. Players are developed in practice, in the weight room, in the video room, through studying and repetition. Once players can prove they can do the things they have to do in those areas, they are rewarded with playing time and execute all the things they have learned in their development.

I don't think there is a professional coach anywhere in the world who doesn't think this way.

At times through injuries, suspensions, roster creation, etc., does it become necessary for a coach to throw players into games that do not deserve playing time? Sure.

But if you think Stevens will be playing Olynyk, Sully, Melo, Iverson, Pressey and other super young players to develop them, I think you will be very disappointed when you see Humphries, Bogans, Wallace, Bass, and Lee getting regular rotation minutes. Why? Because they will be better than the young guys and adjust to new systems and the expectations of what the coach wants faster and better than some, most, if not all of the young guys.

How do you know guys like Sully, Ko, and Pressey will be worse than those guys? I'd take Sully of last year over all of them!

Sully you have a point on. Last year he earned his playing time and looked like he would be something special in the 2nd half. I was probably wrong to add him, but even so, Bass is still a very good role playing PF as is Humphries. He's going to have to be even better than last year to displace them from the rotation, especially if Humph returns to his double double form and/or Bass plays like he did in the second half of last year and in 2011-12 and not like he played the first half of last year.

After watching the Summer League, I just don't see KO and Pressey getting a lot of playing time. They both have soooooo much to learn.