Author Topic: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries  (Read 20924 times)

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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2013, 08:35:38 PM »

Offline Yogi

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The best stat for his defense is his defensive rating, which is stellar.  But the ultimate proof of Boozer's defense is the minutes Thibodeau plays him.  The Bulls have been one of the best defensive teams with Boozer.  The stats about team +- really relate more to line-ups than Boozer. 

This is nothing new.  There will always be bias against nonathletic non shot blocking positional defenders.  Sullinger was ripped for his defense when his whole career he's been an unbelievable defender.  Yet the best defensive coach in the league, the guy who once benched Rose for not playing defense, continues to give this guy a ton of minutes. 

If Gibson is better than Boozer, why in the world would Thibodeau continue to give Boozer so many minutes?  Gibson hasn't earned more playing time since his first year in the league. 
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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2013, 08:43:15 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Boozer isn't an excellent defender.  He's become a competent, and perhaps even above-average defender, especially when playing the center position.  He's far from elite, though, and he's been benched in Chicago at times for not seeming to care on that end. 

Statistically, he ranked 119th in the NBA in points allowed per possession.  Again, that's decent, but far from excellent, especially when considering that he's surrounded by good defenders.

(Gibson, by the way, ranked 29th in the NBA in points allowed per possession.)


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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2013, 08:45:19 PM »

Offline Yogi

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKpG3EeH4oI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiFlzJ4p768


1. I love it.  In your first video you have Ibaka BLOWING by Gibson for a dunk.  Of course Boozer was also late on the rotation, but it is one play. 

2. Boozer did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do in the Heat video:

He forced a very difficult floater in the first play with excellent rotation. 

In two of the plays, he stayed under the pick to stop Lebron's drives.  The first time he was unsuccessful, but I can find you many clips of Lebron doing the exact same thing to KG, Noah or anyone else.  The second one Lebron bricked a jumper which Boozer gathered.

In the other play there was a switch and he chased the shooter and didn't give up an open shot.  It was Rose who messed up and followed his man instead of contesting the jumper.

Thank you for providing the clips though.
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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2013, 09:11:16 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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I think that patience is needed regarding Gerald Wallace. Wallace's contract becomes more tradable as remaining years get fewer and if he is able to show he adds value as a player.  Fortunately, his salary doesn't grow over the next 3 years (10M per).  Working with Stevens, Wallace may find a nice role on this team to showcase that he can be a contributor.  As his contract moves from 3 remaining years to 2, it becomes easier to move.  No need to move for 10 cents on the dollar now.

10 cents on the dollar? you keep thinking he has positive value... he has NEGATIVE VALUE.. we would amnesty him if we could... what we are trying to do is trade him for 10 cents because he's worth -25 cents. If we could sell him for -5 cents, we would jump at the chance....

IF WE COULD PACKAGE HIM AND A 2ND ROUNDER FOR NOTHING... WE WOULD DO THAT!!

If Ainge could package Wallace and a first round pick for nothing, he probably wouldn't.  If he had a choice between giving up Humphries and no picks or Wallace and a pick as trade ballast in a deal, he'd probably prefer to move Humphries.

It's not like Wallace is going to go down in value and require even more assets to move his contract if the Celtics wait to move him.

This would be different if the Celtics were over the luxury tax threshold or if moving Wallace would give the team cap space to maneuver.  Neither is the case, so there is no rush to move him, especially since there's no other backup small forward (especially if Kris Joseph's unguaranteed contract is waived).
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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2013, 09:14:40 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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The best stat for his defense is his defensive rating, which is stellar.  But the ultimate proof of Boozer's defense is the minutes Thibodeau plays him.  The Bulls have been one of the best defensive teams with Boozer.  The stats about team +- really relate more to line-ups than Boozer. 

That may have something to do with the Bulls having a desperate need for his offense.

I've seen Boozer subbed out at the end of games during defensive possessions and brought back in when the Bulls get the ball back.  What does that say about his defense?
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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #80 on: July 13, 2013, 09:24:00 PM »

Offline EDWARDO

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I think that patience is needed regarding Gerald Wallace. Wallace's contract becomes more tradable as remaining years get fewer and if he is able to show he adds value as a player.  Fortunately, his salary doesn't grow over the next 3 years (10M per).  Working with Stevens, Wallace may find a nice role on this team to showcase that he can be a contributor.  As his contract moves from 3 remaining years to 2, it becomes easier to move.  No need to move for 10 cents on the dollar now.

10 cents on the dollar? you keep thinking he has positive value... he has NEGATIVE VALUE.. we would amnesty him if we could... what we are trying to do is trade him for 10 cents because he's worth -25 cents. If we could sell him for -5 cents, we would jump at the chance....

IF WE COULD PACKAGE HIM AND A 2ND ROUNDER FOR NOTHING... WE WOULD DO THAT!!

If Ainge could package Wallace and a first round pick for nothing, he probably wouldn't.  If he had a choice between giving up Humphries and no picks or Wallace and a pick as trade ballast in a deal, he'd probably prefer to move Humphries.

It's not like Wallace is going to go down in value and require even more assets to move his contract if the Celtics wait to move him.

This would be different if the Celtics were over the luxury tax threshold or if moving Wallace would give the team cap space to maneuver.  Neither is the case, so there is no rush to move him, especially since there's no other backup small forward (especially if Kris Joseph's unguaranteed contract is waived).

A first rounder is probably too much in the first instance, but only because we are actively trying to get assets right now, not give them up. We'd DEFINITELY do it for a 2nd rounder.

Humphries is FAR more valuable at this point. He could actually play meaningful minutes on a contender, and he's an expiring deal. There's a ton of value in that and I expect we'll see him moved at the deadline with decent value coming back. That's a great trade piece... an expiring on a guy who can at least contribute. He was awful last year, but very sold the 2 prior years. It would be nice to get him some minutes and back to posting double doubles heading into Jan/Feb.

The Wallace deal is BY FAR the worst thing on our roster. Easily one of the worst contracts in the league.

Wait, in fact, a simple Google search says it all...

3. Gerald Wallace: four years, $40 million
To refresh your memory …

The Nets traded a top-three protected first-rounder for Wallace last February, never giving that pick top-10 protection because, as GM Billy King would explain later, the Nets didn't believe there were any impact rookies beyond the top three, and "we felt the player that we may draft beyond the protection would be somebody that would probably take a couple years (to develop)."

Thanks to that confusing logic, the Blazers stumbled into the sixth pick (courtesy of the Nets) and took Damian Lillard … who's averaging 18.6 points a game en route to the Rookie of the Year award. So that was awkward. The next three picks: Harrison Barnes, Terrence Ross and Andre Drummond, all of whom make three times less than Wallace (signed to that $40 million extension in July) and have eight times more trade value. Maybe it's a bad idea to decide in March that you like only three players in June's NBA draft, and that workouts and interviews couldn't possibly change that opinion? Just throwing it out there.

The good news? If the Nets didn't trade for Wallace, they wouldn't have been able to pay Deron Williams $98 million for the five years after his prime, and they wouldn't have been able to lock down Wallace at $40 million right after his career careered off a cliff.

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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #81 on: July 13, 2013, 09:25:28 PM »

Offline EDWARDO

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OH, and very good again... this article was written last year, and here are the comments on Humphries contract...

22. Kris Humphries: two years, $24 million
Popular opinion alert: We shouldn't live in a world in which Kris Humphries makes $12 million a year.

Unpopular opinion alert: I don't mind this contract because, next season, he morphs into Kris Humphries's Expiring Contract and becomes trade fodder for Dwight Howard, Kevin Love or whomever else.8 If you're a wealthy team, why not always make sure you have one eight-figure expiring contract for trade purposes … you know, just in case?

Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #82 on: July 13, 2013, 09:36:40 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Humphries is FAR more valuable at this point. He could actually play meaningful minutes on a contender, and he's an expiring deal. There's a ton of value in that and I expect we'll see him moved at the deadline with decent value coming back. That's a great trade piece... an expiring on a guy who can at least contribute. He was awful last year, but very sold the 2 prior years. It would be nice to get him some minutes and back to posting double doubles heading into Jan/Feb.

The Wallace deal is BY FAR the worst thing on our roster. Easily one of the worst contracts in the league.

If Humphries has value merely as an expiring deal, why should the Celtics trade Wallace now when he is being described as having negative value rather than waiting until he is an expiring contract of some value?

He's not blocking any young players who absolute have to be played (Kris Joseph does not need to be force-fed minutes), he's not keeping the Celtics from having cap space to sign free agents and he's not costing luxury tax.

People who are so desperate to get rid of Wallace's contract that they are willing to use Rondo to do so are similar to the Clippers people who decided that giving up the first round pick that became Kyrie Irving was a reasonable price for getting rid of the contract of Baron Davis.
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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #83 on: July 13, 2013, 09:44:05 PM »

Offline EDWARDO

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Humphries is FAR more valuable at this point. He could actually play meaningful minutes on a contender, and he's an expiring deal. There's a ton of value in that and I expect we'll see him moved at the deadline with decent value coming back. That's a great trade piece... an expiring on a guy who can at least contribute. He was awful last year, but very sold the 2 prior years. It would be nice to get him some minutes and back to posting double doubles heading into Jan/Feb.

The Wallace deal is BY FAR the worst thing on our roster. Easily one of the worst contracts in the league.

If Humphries has value merely as an expiring deal, why should the Celtics trade Wallace now when he is being described as having negative value rather than waiting until he is an expiring contract of some value?

He's not blocking any young players who absolute have to be played (Kris Joseph does not need to be force-fed minutes), he's not keeping the Celtics from having cap space to sign free agents and he's not costing luxury tax.

People who are so desperate to get rid of Wallace's contract that they are willing to use Rondo to do so are similar to the Clippers people who decided that giving up the first round pick that became Kyrie Irving was a reasonable price for getting rid of the contract of Baron Davis.

That's 2 years to wait. It restricts you from doing anything else in the meantime. The Celts did the deal because they HAVE the time, so its not the end of the world, but if you COULD deal him... for nothing... they would do that in a heartbeat.


Humphries has MORE value than merely an expiring deal... at least we should hope so. He was dreadful last year, but is very young and his downfall was not a physical issue (as it is with Wallace). I think if we ran him out there for 30-35 minutes a night he'd put up 12 and 10 and we'd have an expiring contract and a player that would play meaningful off-the-bench minutes for a contender. Those numbers on a 12mm expiring deal are extremely valuable...

Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2013, 09:48:28 PM »

Offline letsgoblue86

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Hump/Crash for Amare for full tank?

Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2013, 10:20:18 PM »

Offline WeMadeIt17

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Hump/Crash for Amare for full tank?


I'd do it.

Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #86 on: July 13, 2013, 10:28:12 PM »

Offline LilRip

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Hump/Crash for Amare for full tank?


I'd do it.

What's amare's contract again? I forget. And why would the Knicks do this?

FWIW, I'd do this trade too if Amares contract isn't as bad as Wallace's.
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Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2013, 10:28:50 PM »

Offline EDWARDO

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I bet neither team does it. It makes the Knicks worse right away and Amare will be a big asset next year with his expiring.

It makes us BETTER this year, which isn't really the goal... though he would be a great asset to trade next year perhaps. No way the Knicks do it... don't think we would either...

Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2013, 10:29:39 PM »

Offline EDWARDO

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two years left at 21.6mm then 23.4mm... OUCH!!!

Re: Blakely: C's look to deal Wallace & Humphries
« Reply #89 on: July 13, 2013, 10:34:30 PM »

Offline LilRip

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two years left at 21.6mm then 23.4mm... OUCH!!!

Lol and to think, people were up in arms at signing Jeff Green for 9mil. Come to think of it, I wouldn't do this trade. A 23m contract is harder to use as an asset/expiring rather than 2 separate contracts.
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