IDEA: Gerald Wallace for Anderson Varejao

[rondoallaturca]

Both players are 30-year old's. Both have peaked already. Both are injury-prone. Both are high energy players. Both make about the same salary.

Why would Cleveland want Wallace? Not only would Wallace fit a glaring need for their roster right now, he would also be a sensible addition for their postseason aspirations. Their SFs entering the offseason were Gee and Miles. They drafted Karasev, and heck, they signed Clark for a whopping $4.5M a year. Meanwhile, after drafting Thompson, Zeller, and now Bennett the last few years, it's clear Cleveland is looking to move on from Varejao. Recent rumors put the Cavs in the mix for Bynum, too. Furthermore, Gilbert's made it clear he's done waiting. He wants to get into the playoffs now. He already brought in Jarrett Jack, a veteran presence who could also be a key contributor. Now, Gerald Wallace can also fill a similar role in the frontcourt.

Why would Boston do this trade? Not only would we acquire a legitimate center (we currently have NONE), we flip a 3-year contract into a 2-year contract, with that 2nd year being non-guaranteed. Plus, Varejao costs $1M less annually. The only drawback I can think is that Varejao is on the short list of players that can be called even more injury prone than Wallace. Varejao has gone three straight seasons playing less than half the games, and he only has 3 years (out of 9) where he played in 76 games or more. But hey, I don't think anyone's going to complain when we're tanking the season.

Honestly, after I realized it, the Cavaliers might actually be a team that would have a legitimate interest in Wallace, and actually have something reasonable they can trade back in return. What do you guys think?

[syfy9]

Varejao averaged 14.4 rpg before he got injured. He's still in his peak. His injury was a blood cloth, not an ACL tear or anything like that. His game is not going to change as much.

They are also planning on playing Bennett more as a combo, I've heard. Either way, Miles and Gee were arguably better than Wallace last season anyway. Add in Casspi, and It's not a glaring need at all.

Nope, nope. Not happening.

[rondoallaturca]

Varejao averaged 14.4 rpg before he got injured. He's still in his peak. His injury was a blood cloth, not an ACL tear or anything like that. His game is not going to change as much.

They are also planning on playing Bennett more as a combo, I've heard. Either way, Miles and Gee were arguably better than Wallace last season anyway. Add in Casspi, and It's not a glaring need at all.

Nope, nope. Not happening.

I mean, do you think he's still capable of improving and breaking into over 15 rebounds a game? Only one active NBA player has achieved that milestone (Kevin Love), and only two players have done it in the 2000s (Ben Wallace, Kevin Love). I highly doubt he's going to do better than that 14.4rpg. At this stage in his career, I don't think he can really significantly improve anything else in his game. So yes, I'd absolutely say he's peaked already.

As for the SFs, Gee's a solid defender, but he's been wildly inconsistent and generally seems to do better off the bench. Miles is another guy who's as inconsistent as they come, except he doesn't even have the defense to go with it like Gee does. Casspi isn't even on the team anymore. He plays for Houston, but that's besides the point. The fact that they added Clark for $4.5M a year speaks volumes about their need at SF. I absolutely think the wing remains a glaring need for Cleveland.

[syfy9]

Varejao averaged 14.4 rpg before he got injured. He's still in his peak. His injury was a blood cloth, not an ACL tear or anything like that. His game is not going to change as much.

They are also planning on playing Bennett more as a combo, I've heard. Either way, Miles and Gee were arguably better than Wallace last season anyway. Add in Casspi, and It's not a glaring need at all.

Nope, nope. Not happening.

I mean, do you think he's still capable of improving and breaking into over 15 rebounds a game? I highly doubt he's going to do better than that 14.4rpg. At this stage in his career, I don't think he can really significantly improve anything else in his game. So yes, I'd absolutely say he's peaked already.

As for the SFs, Gee's a solid defender, but he's been wildly consistent and generally seems to do better off the bench. Miles is another guy who's as inconsistent as they come. Casspi isn't even on the team anymore. He plays for Houston, but that's besides the point. The fact that they added Clark for $4.5M a year speaks volumes about their need at SF. I absolutely think the wing remains a glaring need for Cleveland.

Yeah, I kinda do think he's capable of hovering 15 rpg again. As I said before, the injury was non athleticism related. He'll still play with heart. While I think he's capable, I don't think that he will. But I do think that he is a lock for 10+ rpg. Much better than Gerald Wallace and his less than 10 ppg and less than 40% FG shooting, right?


I agree with you that their SF could use some work in quality, but not quantity.

I also agree with you on your take of Gee and Miles. They aren't the best players, yup. The thing is, Wallace last year was completely pitiful statistically and worse than both of these players. If you don't believe me, I can provide stats (I won't right now because I'm pretty sure you should agree with me that Gee and Miles were better statistically).

Wallace is also on a sharp decline while Gee and Miles are still semi-young.

I don't want to knock Wallace too much, though, because I like his effort and hustle. When he played us earlier in the season, he took it upon himself to keep the Nets in the game. He has heart and hustle, yeah. The thing is, you point out how inconsistent Gee and Miles are. Wallace is much, much, much, much more inconsistent.

[action781]

Man...  Let's suppose Cleveland does sign Bynum.  If they don't, I don't see a chance at them making this trade.

If they get Bynum, they may be a very good team and will make some noise in the playoffs.  I think if that's the case, they will want Varejao as a backup 4/5.  He would be a very valuable roster piece for them.

But also, if they get Bynum, they will have a very crowded front court and have to move somebody in their front court.  If they really are going to try to woo Lebron back, having Varejao in place would probably be a good move. 

I think it will come down to who they can get the most value back for in a trade - Varejao or Zeller.

If they do want to trade Varejao, can they get more value back than Gerald Wallace and his crappy contract when they are going to pursue Lebron next summer?  Yup.  So I don't see there being a chance at this happening.

[rondoallaturca]

@syfy9:
I see where you're coming from now that you've explained yourself. I guess we're not that far apart in thinking then.

Varejao certainly is going to be a double-digit rebounder, and while I don't think he'll approach that 15rpg milestone, he'll probably eat up about 13 a game. Realistically, 14.4rpg is probably going to end up being his career best, and so will a lot of the other stats he put up. He's peaked.

Statistically, Wallace was definitely garbage last season. One has to wonder if going from a stacked Nets team to being a vocal leader on an up and coming team might revitalize what he has left in the tank though.

You're right that they already have a huge amount of SFs. Four is a lot to juggle. But honestly, one of them is a rookie, two of them are inconsistent beyond belief, and Clark is nice, but not a guy you want playing big minutes for a team that wants to get into the playoffs (even if it's in the East). With Miles non-guaranteed this year, and both Gee and Clark non-guaranteed next year, I don't think the Cavs would turn this deal down simply because of the quantity they have already.

I DO see them turning this deal down because of each player's basketball value though. I mean, Wallace was a mess last year. You're completely on point with that. I'm banking on the chance that the Cavs might be optimistic at a turnaround, however the slightest. At the very least, Wallace fills a need and is a much more vocal veteran. I mean, I realize Cleveland trying to position itself to have a lot of cap space next offseason, but even after adding Wallace, they'd still have only $34M committed in salaries - and they could always use the stretch provision on Wallace. 

I mean, I'm not saying it makes perfect sense and both teams should do it without question. It's definitely a stretch on Cleveland's end. But hey, we just saw contracts like Bargnani, Biedrins, and Jefferson get moved around. This trade is certainly far from far-fetched so I'm not ruling it out!

@action781:
I'm not a CBA expert by any means, but Cleveland would still be able to get Lebron and another max player after trading for Wallace if I'm not mistakened.

[syfy9]

@rondoallaturca

3 points:

1. Gerald Wallace isn't a need, and I still don't see where you get the notion that he is needed basketball-wise in Cleveland.

2. Your insistence is that Gerald Wallace's best assets are being a leader and an example. Well, they just signed Jarrett Jack. He's quite the leader and a lot better than Wallace. As for inspiration, the team can get more of that from Varejao's hustle than Wallace's (and from Kyrie). 

3. You keep saying that Gee and Miles are inconsistent (beyond belief), but I'm just going to keep stressing the point that Wallace is so much more inconsistent than either of them. It's a very moot point for a favoring Wallace perspective. They need a SF, yes, but in quality. Someone like Rudy Gay - actual talent, someone actually better than what they already have.


It isn't happening because Varejao is more talented and the Cavs have little to no need of Wallace.


...I appreciate this discussion, though. TP, and I hope you are having a fine summer! 

[action781]

@action781:
I'm not a CBA expert by any means, but Cleveland would still be able to get Lebron and another max player after trading for Wallace if I'm not mistakened.

You are mistaken, absolutely not.

Wallace - 10M, Kyrie - 7.5M, Thompson - 5.4M, Bennett - 5.5M, Waiters - 4M, Zeller 1.7M right there is around $34M.  Cap will be around $60M.

After cap holds on remaining roster spots (assuming they decline the 3.2M team option on alonzo gee) and signing their first round draft pick, that leaves about enough room for Lebron and maybe 2-3 mil left over.  And that is with no Andrew Bynum.

[LooseCannon]

When the Clippers asked about Varejao, they were reportedly told the price was Deandre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe.  Despite his health issues, they still value him very highly.

The Cavs were reportedly interested in a small forward whose strength is scoring on offense.  That's very much not Gerald Wallace.  If they were ever going to trade Verejao for a small forwawrd, it would be for a 20ppg guy.

[NocturnalRebel]

OP got me excited. I thought this post was tha return of my man Krook. That brotha has a love jones for Varejao.

[LooseCannon]

OP got me excited. I thought this post was tha return of my man Krook. That brotha has a love jones for Varejao.

You'll know krook is back when you see Mozgov trade ideas.

[Roy H.]

It's not often that you see one team trade the better player (Varejao) on the better contract (Varejao) at a more valuable position (Varejao).  I'm sure it's happened, but it's pretty unlikely.

[SHAQATTACK]

omg

do this in heartbeat

can't dump the thug fast enough

[Roy H.]

omg

do this in heartbeat

can't dump the thug fast enough

I don't like Wallace's contract or his current skill level, but what makes him a thug?

[EDWARDO]

Its simple. Varejao is a real asset, a very very good player when healthy.

Wallace is a liability. Not a liability on the basketball court, he's a liability in a balance sheet sense. He has NEGATIVE value.

For instance, if the Celtics could trade Gerald Wallace and a 2nd round pick for NOTHING, they would do it. His contract is one of the worst in the league and he can't help anyone win a title.