Author Topic: Officially Wiggins or Bust  (Read 24896 times)

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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2013, 12:49:32 AM »

Offline action781

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Even if we "get lucky" and land a top 2 pick, let's recall the last time there was a draft with two franchise-changers that were projected to go 1 and 2 and anticipated for over a year before the draft.

2007 - Greg Oden and Kevin Durant

Even the team that got "lucky" and struck gold with the #1 pick in a once in what was a once-in-every-5-years loaded draft didn't get so lucky.

That said... I'm sad, I don't believe tanking is the answer, but I'm starting to come around to this being OK.  (Largely because I don't have a choice)  We do have a lot of future draft picks to move as assets, will have highly drafted players to move as assets, and will have chunks of expiring salaries coming off the books in 2 and 3 seasons from now.

That for one disgruntled superstar in addition to hopefully either having drafted one or signed one with freed up cap space could put us back in the mix of things if we don't shoot ourselves with poor contracts.
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2013, 12:50:33 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Once again, instead of telling others to open their mind and look at new perspective, YOU are the one who needs to realize that you're looking at this extremely narrow-mindedly.

Don't do this Brooklyn trade? Uh oh, we get Josh Smith. Now we're stuck being average!

Don't do this Brooklyn trade? First round exit next year. Now we're stuck being average!

Don't do this Brooklyn trade? KG/PP retire and we get nothing. Now we're stuck being average!

You know what though? That's not true. Who says we have to get Josh Smith? Who says you can't rebuild while being a playoff team? Who says we can't trade KG and/or PP to other teams where we would undeniably get a better haul than this one? Who says we wouldn't benefit more simply from the cap space from KG's and/or PP's retirement?

You know what, you're right. Some people really don't get it at all  ::)

In addition, I also see you frequently say that there are no other options. Many of the rumors we've heard are indeed that, rumors. The Warriors simply inquired about KG. We have no idea what they offered, if they offered anything at all.

But what about a Cleveland? I don't think that ever got to serious talks because Ainge thinks it was a lowball offer, but two early second rounders in this year's draft plus a sizable trade exception? I'll take that over having to take back Gerald Wallace every day of the week.

And what about the Clippers? I was already a huge dissident of that trade. I'm not a fan of Deandre Jordan's at all, and to pay him his ridiculous eight digit salary, PLUS his trade kicker, was an awful proposition in my opinion. BUT, compared to the Brooklyn trade, I'd still take that awful Clippers trade every day of the week. Two years of an athletic, young center OR three years of an old, washed up forward whose game depended entirely on his athleticism?

I mean, these aren't even close. Keep in mind that in both of these trades, it meant letting go of only either KG or PP. That means we could've gotten even further assets than what we would've received in the mentioned trades. If Ainge were simply patient enough to test out the market, who's to say another contender wouldn't be interested? PP and KG are old, but still very productive and at a very cheap bargain.

Again, the fact that Ainge was impatient and stuck to this Brooklyn deal is awful. And again, you need to open your mind and not be so narrow-minded on your opinions. Rebuilding isn't simply something you can only do one way. There are many ways, and Ainge went with one of the worst ones.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2013, 12:52:55 AM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I want to apologize to LarBrd33 for disputing with him.

I still hate what happened and still think we are risking a lot, but I just want to say that what you're saying makes total sense now, now that I think about it.

I hope you are right.

At this point I'm folding my KG jersey one final time before I keep it in the attic.

LarBrd33, I get it now.
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2013, 12:53:45 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Also, to address the topic of the original post, people need to stop getting the idea that we have a chance for Wiggins, or any of the other "consolation" picks. Unless we trade Rondo, this team will be too good to suck that badly.

Okay, so say we do trade Rondo. But there are some truly awful teams out there to compete with for the lottery. Even with Green as our best player, we're already better than Charlotte. Philly and Orlando are pretty bad, too. Then you have Milwaukee, whose entire backcourt has dissipated in a matter of weeks. And in the West, Phoenix is awful, Sacramento is beginning their new rebuild, and a lot of other teams are looking really questionable right now.

Now you argue that we could always trade and move up. If it was hard to do that in this year's draft, imagine what team would budge in next year's.

Bottom line is that Wiggins is NOT an option for us, unless we somehow trade both Rondo and Green so we can absolutely suck miserably. That might be an option, but it's so much less attractive then what could have been a much quicker, less painful rebuilding process.

Not sure how anyone knows how well Boston will play this upcoming season and know how the possible lottery will end up. Wiggins isn't the only player that should be coming out of college next year that can make an impact. Looking at just the incoming freshman I see 4-6 players who can make impact along with a couple of other players in college already. This upcoming draft will be the best one in a number of years and Boston has two picks to help improve the team.

I totally hear you, but I already acknowledged that in my post. We simply have no chance to get Wiggins OR the "consolation" picks unless we totally tear it up and trade Rondo and Green. But like I said from the get-go, both Rondo and Green are on good contracts (particularly Rondo) and they're both hitting their prime. It'd be an absolute pity to let those two leave the organization only for a CHANCE at one of these potential franchise changers. And considering how many other teams that want to tank for 2014, and how bad they are, I'm not liking that sort of risk.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2013, 12:57:48 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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Any idea what or if there is any protection on these Brooklyn picks?

Marc Stein said 14 has slight protection, 16 and 18 unprotected.

Anyone got a link?


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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2013, 12:59:58 AM »

Offline rondoallaturca

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Ainge says that Rondo WILL NOT be traded, and that he sees him as a CORNERSTONE of the franchise.

Great. I really hope this is just a smokescreen, because if it's true, then it makes the Brooklyn trade even worse.

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2013, 01:00:11 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Any idea what or if there is any protection on these Brooklyn picks?

Marc Stein said 14 has slight protection, 16 and 18 unprotected.

Anyone got a link?

Atlanta owns the right to swapping their 2014 pick with the Brooklyn pick we have now as part of the Joe Johnson trade.
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2013, 01:01:59 AM »

Offline Kane3387

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Any idea what or if there is any protection on these Brooklyn picks?

Marc Stein said 14 has slight protection, 16 and 18 unprotected.

Anyone got a link?


KG: "Dude.... What is up with yo shorts?!"

CBD_2016 Cavs Remaining Picks - 14.14

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2013, 01:03:19 AM »

Offline syfy9

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Even if we "get lucky" and land a top 2 pick, let's recall the last time there was a draft with two franchise-changers that were projected to go 1 and 2 and anticipated for over a year before the draft.

2007 - Greg Oden and Kevin Durant

Even the team that got "lucky" and struck gold with the #1 pick in a once in what was a once-in-every-5-years loaded draft didn't get so lucky.

That said... I'm sad, I don't believe tanking is the answer, but I'm starting to come around to this being OK.  (Largely because I don't have a choice)  We do have a lot of future draft picks to move as assets, will have highly drafted players to move as assets, and will have chunks of expiring salaries coming off the books in 2 and 3 seasons from now.

That for one disgruntled superstar in addition to hopefully either having drafted one or signed one with freed up cap space could put us back in the mix of things if we don't shoot ourselves with poor contracts.

I think it's worth the risk, though. Look at where the Thunder are right now.
I like Marcus Smart

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2013, 01:07:06 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Any idea what or if there is any protection on these Brooklyn picks?

Marc Stein said 14 has slight protection, 16 and 18 unprotected.

Anyone got a link?

Well, aren't you trusting.  ::)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2013/06/27/boston-celtics-brooklyn-nets-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-kris-humphries-gerald-wallace/2465013/

Quote
The picks that they'd net would be from 2014 (with some protections), 2016 (unprotected) and 2018 (unprotected). The Atlanta Hawks have the right to swap their 2014 pick with the Nets, meaning the Celtics would get the worse of the two picks.
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2013, 01:10:50 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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The title of this thread must be meant to be taken tongue in cheek.  Obviously, our chances of landing Andrew Wiggins next year will be extremely low.

That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft. 
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2013, 01:10:54 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Other teams have gotten lottery picks for taking on bad contracts (Kyrie Irving, anyone?).  We take them on, and give up two top-40 picks, for picks that are likely to be mediocre.

I refuse to believe that this deal is the best Danny could do.

I think it might be the best Danny could do because the teams that typically make those sort of stupid trades giving up lottery picks are, historically, the Clippers and the Nets, and the Celtics have the bad timing of blowing things up when both those teams are good.

Plus, everyone seems to be grasping their 2014 picks tightly.  I am shocked that New Orleans was willing to give up a top five-protected 2014 first in the Jrue Holiday trade.  Either they are insanely sure they are making the playoffs or they are insanely sure they will have one of the worst records.

There's probably zero chance of getting a good 2014 lottery pick unless you take back a contract worse than Wallace's and how many of those are there?
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2013, 01:13:16 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).
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Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2013, 01:19:08 AM »

Offline rutzan

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That's why they have a lottery, because even the worst team in the league (which we likely won't be) has a lower than 50% chance of landing the top pick in the draft.

The worst team in the league has a better chance of picking fourth ($35.7%) than it does of picking first (25%).

oh my gosh...thank you...someone that finally gets it...

Re: Officially Wiggins or Bust
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2013, 01:23:44 AM »

Offline Evantime34

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To me this draft is 5 deep with all star talent, getting Wiggins would be great but I think Parker, Randle, Gordon. So as long as we get in the top 4 or 5 I think we will get an all star.
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