How comfortable are you building around Rajon Rondo?

[2short]

Always comfortable building around an all star player who makes all his teammates better.

[BballTim]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

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I have to admit, after the last couple of seasons and watching the other guys get older, then play without him, I'm much more comfortable than I used to be.  I was a no, now I'm a yes.

He can direct and lead a team on the floor, and assert himself as needed in big moments.  That's pretty much key and nearly impossible to find. 

Flaws?  Sure, but they can be worked around.  His jumper was looking good out to 17ft or so, which ain't so bad (Remember DJ's 18ft top of key jumper?  It was enough to spread the floor for Bird/McHale).  Okay...shouldn't have mentioned that...

Anyway, I think it isn't as hard to find finishers and guys that can shoot off picks, perhaps, if Rondo's already here, and they'll look/be effective when they show up.  Imagine a young Scal with Rondo.  Okay...shouldn't have mentioned that either...

Anyway, I think Rondo can 1/3 of a star trio.

Just need 2 more stars.

Bet on Olynyk as a future 1/3?  Aren't we all a bit giddy at the thought of Rondo/Olynyk in a couple of years?

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure on Sully or Green getting quite that high up there.  Maybe, but perhaps not.

Hopefully, they come together into a formidable, talented, deep lineup that Rondo can orchestrate into a contender.  I mean, all the pieces fit together and seem to complement well.

Rondo/Crawford
Bradley/Crawford
Green/Wallace
Sully/Bass
KO/Vitor

There are guys there who can finish for Rondo to feed.  Perhaps not enough 3pt shooting, but Sully, Green, KO, and perhaps Bradley all seem to have spot-up ability from distance.  That's fine.

There are also guys who can and will make the second/extra pass, like Sully and KO particularly.  That's a very potent weapon as well, and will boost the efficiency of everyone.

Doesn't it look like we're already building around Rondo?

[D.o.s.]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

If he's got a time to prove he can lead it as the de facto best player on the team, next year is the year to do it. Or this year, if he (hopefully) comes back early.

I agree that the reasons given for why not aren't really all that satisfactory.

Back to the question--building around Rondo is great on one hand, because he's a player that very clearly is at his best with specific teammates around him. A pick and pop big, a lights out 2 guard, at least one slashing win, etc.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how well he'll do without that kind of roster--we'll see this year.

[Chris]

I am not all that comfortable building around anyone other than a top 5 player in the league, which Rondo is not.

With that said, this is a little too black and white a question for me.  There are just so many variables.

First, I want to see how Rondo comes back from the injury, and how he takes to the leadership role.  That is a big deal.

But then, I need to know what other pieces they can put around him.  If you can get some other elite players here, Rondo can be one of the centerpieces of the franchise.  But, he isn't Lebron or Durant. 

[BballTim]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

If he's got a time to prove he can lead it as the de facto best player on the team, next year is the year to do it. Or this year, if he (hopefully) comes back early.

I agree that the reasons given for why not aren't really all that satisfactory.

Back to the question--building around Rondo is great on one hand, because he's a player that very clearly is at his best with specific teammates around him. A pick and pop big, a lights out 2 guard, at least one slashing win, etc.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how well he'll do without that kind of roster--we'll see this year.

  I think "he's a player that very clearly is at his best with specific teammates around him" would be a valid statement if you could demonstrate that he's unable to perform well without those players. For instance, if he's still able to play well with Bradley and not Ray then there's no reason to believe that he needs a lights out 2 guard. He probably needs a big who can shoot from the outside, but you see those on most teams nowadays.

[D.o.s.]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

If he's got a time to prove he can lead it as the de facto best player on the team, next year is the year to do it. Or this year, if he (hopefully) comes back early.

I agree that the reasons given for why not aren't really all that satisfactory.

Back to the question--building around Rondo is great on one hand, because he's a player that very clearly is at his best with specific teammates around him. A pick and pop big, a lights out 2 guard, at least one slashing win, etc.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how well he'll do without that kind of roster--we'll see this year.

  I think "he's a player that very clearly is at his best with specific teammates around him" would be a valid statement if you could demonstrate that he's unable to perform well without those players. For instance, if he's still able to play well with Bradley and not Ray then there's no reason to believe that he needs a lights out 2 guard. He probably needs a big who can shoot from the outside, but you see those on most teams nowadays.

Fair point, although wasn't Avery's hot shooting from deep happening while he was paired with Rondo?

Point being, dude needs to get back on the court ASAP. It's like the X-Files. I WANT TO BELIEVE.

[wiley]

About as comfortable as I'd be drinking mudslides with Julia Roberts
on a Hawaiian beach...

[CelticG1]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

Yeah I really don't understand it at all. The comeback is "we lost, see!!" Or "rondo didn't lead us! Pierce and KG did!"

Its really comical

[Chris]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

This is true.  Although there are plenty of people who will argue (and can have a strong argument) that, despite the gaudy numbers for Rondo, Pierce or KG were more valuable to that team. 

Now, I think the strongest argument is that Rondo was the best player on the team, but the fact that you can make arguments for KG and Pierce gets to the bigger point.  Rondo CAN be the best player on a championship team.  But, he probably needs another 2 or 3 guys who are really close to as good as he is around him.

This is different than the handful of truly elite players, who I think can win a championship being head and shoulders above all of their teammates, as long as they have a balanced team behind them.

But it comes back to the same thing.  You can build around Rondo...but it's not easy.

[LooseCannon]

But it comes back to the same thing.  You can build around Rondo...but it's not easy.

But it's probably the option that is the most likely to see the Celtics win a title in the next ten years.

[Chris]

But it comes back to the same thing.  You can build around Rondo...but it's not easy.

But it's probably the option that is the most likely to see the Celtics win a title in the next ten years.

Possibly.  It's so hard to tell right now.  It depends on a lot of things, but there are three major ones in my mind right now:

1. How does he come back, both mentally and physically?  Is he the same player? Is he a leader?

2. What kind trade offers will you get for him?  Because if someone blows them away, then that changes things (I don't expect it to happen though).

3. What happens in the 2014 draft?  That could be the defining moment.  Do they get another star with that pick, that would compliment Rondo (either by using the pick, or trading)?

[BballTim]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

This is true.  Although there are plenty of people who will argue (and can have a strong argument) that, despite the gaudy numbers for Rondo, Pierce or KG were more valuable to that team. 

Now, I think the strongest argument is that Rondo was the best player on the team, but the fact that you can make arguments for KG and Pierce gets to the bigger point.  Rondo CAN be the best player on a championship team.  But, he probably needs another 2 or 3 guys who are really close to as good as he is around him.

This is different than the handful of truly elite players, who I think can win a championship being head and shoulders above all of their teammates, as long as they have a balanced team behind them.

But it comes back to the same thing.  You can build around Rondo...but it's not easy.

  No, it's not easy, but I've yet to hear of an easier plan that's likely to happen. You're more comfortable building around a top 5 player, but we've had one on our roster for about 1 year in the last 20+. In any case, if you look at the 2010 team KG (coming off of knee surgery) was probably a worse player than he was last year, Ray was a fringe all-star and PP was a little better. You need players like that if you're building around elite players, in fact LeBron needs to be playing with Wade and Bosh to get a team that far.

  If you look at the 2008 team Rondo struggled on offense and KG/PP/RA were able to carry us past top teams in spite of that. When Rondo's play dipped late in the 2010 playoffs those three guys just couldn't get it done. Getting the 2008 versions of those guys would be very hard, getting the 2010 versions (like a KG that gets you 14/7 and doesn't contend for any all-defense or all-nba teams) is quite a bit easier.

[mmmmm]

I've always said Rondo CANNOT be the best player on a Championship team.  That's just not possible because for as good as he is, he's also inconsistent and a bit of an enigma. 

  He came within a few minutes of doing it in 2010. I don't see how people can think it's impossible for a playerto  lead a team to a title when he's already gotten a team to game 7 of the finals. I don't even think it would be reasonable to say a player who can lead a team to game 7 of the conference finals could never lead a team to the finals.

This is true.  Although there are plenty of people who will argue (and can have a strong argument) that, despite the gaudy numbers for Rondo, Pierce or KG were more valuable to that team. 

Now, I think the strongest argument is that Rondo was the best player on the team, but the fact that you can make arguments for KG and Pierce gets to the bigger point.  Rondo CAN be the best player on a championship team.  But, he probably needs another 2 or 3 guys who are really close to as good as he is around him.

This is different than the handful of truly elite players, who I think can win a championship being head and shoulders above all of their teammates, as long as they have a balanced team behind them.

But it comes back to the same thing.  You can build around Rondo...but it's not easy.

I think the requirement that he (or any one) MUST be "the best player on the team" to be a completely dubious, artificial benchmark that doesn't, in the end have anything to do with anything.

Whether your PG is your most talented player or your PF is (or more likely, they are both the best in different aspects of the game) is pretty much irrelevant.

What's important is having an aggregation of talent that is complementary.

As, I think H-daddy, commented in a front page thread, when you focus too much on questions like "who is the star?" and "No team (other than the Pistons) has won without 'stars'!!!!" you are looking at it wrong.

A bazillion teams have existed with 'elite stars' on them.

More teams with obvious ' elite star' players have NOT won the title than have won it.

But, as H-daddy pointed out, no team has won the title without real teamwork based on complementary players.   Even Jordan and Lebron could not win without that.

I think "building with" versus "building around" is a distinction without a difference.

I am totally comfortable building _with_ Rondo because he is extremely talented and his skills are complementary to a wide variety of players.

I don't really care if folks consider him the 'best' player on the team or not and I don't think it matters whether folks consider him 'top 5 in the league' or some other dubious subjective assessment.

[CelticsFanNC]

  More comfortable then I was building around Pierce in about 2004-2005 when his attitude was very questionable, he wasn't always listening to Doc and he seemed to hate playing with a group of not ready for prime time players. 

  I'd say that worked our pretty well.