How comfortable are you building around Rajon Rondo?

[thirstyboots18]

Not very. 

I think a healthy Rondo is essential to a rebuild as he was to the team that went to the Finals and...he is the floor general on offense. He does lead by example, as proven by his willingness to sacrifice his body for the team.

I don't see Rondo as the "soul" or "emotional" defensive leader to rally the troupes .  The lucky thing about my opinion is that I am so often wrong.   

IMO you can not appoint a leader, or turn leadership over, one must earn it and the rest must follow willingly, not because they are told someone is the leader.  For example, the way I saw it was that PP might have been the Captain, but KG was the team's emotional leader.

[D.o.s.]

If I was going to rebuild around Rondo, I would suspect that team would look fairly similar to the squad from 2010.

You need a knockdown long-range shooter at the two, a go-to scorer at the three, a stretch four, and a defense first center. The team needs one (alleged) low-post scorer, and one similarly stretchy 4 off the bench.

Am I missing anything?

I suspect that can be done in the window of Rondo's athletic prime.

obviously, before the shenanigans start--we had three hall of famers, a former all star, and a coach perfectly suited to the task at hand. Replacing those guys one-for-one is not my idea or my intention, nor is this post supposed to denigrate Pierce, Truth, Sheed, or Ray by suggesting that they're easily replicated.

Well, maybe Ray.

[ssspence]

If I was going to rebuild around Rondo, I would suspect that team would look fairly similar to the squad from 2010.

You need a knockdown long-range shooter at the two, a go-to scorer at the three, a stretch four, and a defense first center. The team needs one low-post scorer, and one similarly stretchy 4 off the bench.

Am I missing anything?

I suspect that can be done in the window of Rondo's athletic prime.

But then do you really need Rondo? No way to say without knowing the caliber of those players, but with the right guys in those roles that in itself can be a championship team. So why not trade Rondo to begin acquiring those folks?

[BballTim]

If I was going to rebuild around Rondo, I would suspect that team would look fairly similar to the squad from 2010.

You need a knockdown long-range shooter at the two, a go-to scorer at the three, a stretch four, and a defense first center. The team needs one (alleged) low-post scorer, and one similarly stretchy 4 off the bench.

Am I missing anything?

I suspect that can be done in the window of Rondo's athletic prime.

  I think you just need decent/good players around. Ray or Avery, Perk or Shaq or Bass, you don't need a particular type of player or lineup to succeed with Rondo playing.

  If our team had been healthy (Green/Bradley/Wilcox) we could have won the title in 2012, and a lineup of Ray/PP/KG/Perk isn't overly similar to a lineup of Avery/PP/Bass/KG. You don't need to exactly copy a certain lineup for Rondo (or the team) to be successful.

[BballTim]

If I was going to rebuild around Rondo, I would suspect that team would look fairly similar to the squad from 2010.

You need a knockdown long-range shooter at the two, a go-to scorer at the three, a stretch four, and a defense first center. The team needs one low-post scorer, and one similarly stretchy 4 off the bench.

Am I missing anything?

I suspect that can be done in the window of Rondo's athletic prime.

But then do you really need Rondo? No way to say without knowing the caliber of those players, but with the right guys in those roles that in itself can be a championship team. So why not trade Rondo to begin acquiring those folks?

  The first thing you generally need to compete for a title is a player who can be a superstar and dominate playoff games. That's the hardest thing to acquire and we already have one in Rondo.

[D.o.s.]

If I was going to rebuild around Rondo, I would suspect that team would look fairly similar to the squad from 2010.

You need a knockdown long-range shooter at the two, a go-to scorer at the three, a stretch four, and a defense first center. The team needs one low-post scorer, and one similarly stretchy 4 off the bench.

Am I missing anything?

I suspect that can be done in the window of Rondo's athletic prime.

But then do you really need Rondo? No way to say without knowing the caliber of those players, but with the right guys in those roles that in itself can be a championship team. So why not trade Rondo to begin acquiring those folks?

The idea being that you could get away with a downgrade in talent on the level of say, Jeff Green from Paul Pierce if you had Rondo playing like he was capable of at the end of '11-'12 and for flashes in '12-'13.

[CelticsFanNC]

   I don't look at it as necessarily "rebuilding around Rondo".  To be a contender you need three star players.  He is fully capable of being one of them.   Green could be one of them as well. 

  What we need is a #1 scoring option, a franchise player.  If Ainge can somehow pull one out of his hat then Rondo and Green are great options as your #2 and #3 guys.

  Getting that #1 guy is tough and a whole other story but that's not what this thread is about.  Either Rondo or Green may be needed in a package to get that #1 guy but that's not what we're talking about here.

  Where we are starting this rebuild from isn't a bad spot.  We absolutely have one of the three stars needed in Rondo.  There is a pretty good shot that we have a good option for third star if Green can maintain his play from the second half of last season, raise it slightly and be that guy game in and game out. 

[Boris Badenov]

I'm going to hold off on judging that until we see him come back next year.

On the one hand he's coming back from a serious injury and you just never know how that will turn out. I'm cautiously optimistic based on what we've heard.

The other thing that makes me more optimistic is that with his improved shooting, particularly (as it seemed to me) off the dribble over the last couple of years, I don't see why he can't be a 17-ish ppg scorer. If he does that along with 10apg and 4-5rpg, and steps it up defensively, I think he's pretty close to that elusive #1 guy. He can certainly be a #1a if we have a #1b (kind of how Duncan and Parker were this year).

The more I think about it the more hopeful I get.

[BballTim]

Completely uncomfortable. It virtually guarantees no championships in his era, unless the Cs draft or acquire a superstar scorer or big who becomes their cornerstone in the next couple of years.

  Rondo's capable of playing like a superstar in the playoffs and leading his team to deep playoff runs. We've seen it in the past. You could say that some players are capable of better play, you could say some players are more consistent in dominating playoff games, and in both cases you'd be right. But we don't have players like LeBron or Durant on the team, and we don't have any realistic way to get one of them.

  So, while I'd agree winning a title around Rondo is something of a longshot, I'd say there's little question that it's the most likely way we'd get one during his era. Look at the 2010 team that went to game 7 of the finals. KG wasn't healthy from his knee injury and PP and RA were clearly starting to age past the point where they could carry a team offensively. While those players were all-stars, none of them were on any all-nba teams, none of them were mvp candidates. PP was our best scorer, and he was tied for 20th in the league in scoring in the playoffs. KG was our best rebounder, and he was also tied for 20th in the playoffs in rebounding.

  I think it's possible (although no small task) to surround Rondo with that level of talent over the next 4-5 years. Since you're so down on building around Rondo, I'd wonder whether you had a scenario in mind that you'd honestly say was clearly more likely to happen than that. No "we should just tank for a year and we'll end up with Wiggins" nonsense, something that you think is realistically likely to occur.

We've been through this before, Tim. Name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs or FGs outside 10 feet. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs or FGs outside 10 feet who is an anti-leader. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs or FGs outside 10 feet who is an anti-leader who takes nights off when he's bored or annoyed or feels slighted by something. I can keep going....

  I honestly don't understand the mentality of people who think that the only way to be successful is to be identical to a prior champion. Anyways, that train has pretty much left the station. We got all the way to game 7 of the finals with a team who's best player was (ignoring the nonsense in your post) a point guard (gasp) who's a poor free throw shooter and isn't the best scorer on his team. I don't think it's remotely likely that a type of team can get to game 7 of the finals but the makeup of that team makes it impossible to win the finals.

  BTW, Rondo's shooting from 16-23 feet has been above the league average (overall and for point guards) 3 years in a row and was probably top 10 in the league in fg% from that range last year. Your scouting report is a few years out of date.

[BballTim]

Completely uncomfortable. It virtually guarantees no championships in his era, unless the Cs draft or acquire a superstar scorer or big who becomes their cornerstone in the next couple of years.

  Rondo's capable of playing like a superstar in the playoffs and leading his team to deep playoff runs. We've seen it in the past. You could say that some players are capable of better play, you could say some players are more consistent in dominating playoff games, and in both cases you'd be right. But we don't have players like LeBron or Durant on the team, and we don't have any realistic way to get one of them.

  So, while I'd agree winning a title around Rondo is something of a longshot, I'd say there's little question that it's the most likely way we'd get one during his era. Look at the 2010 team that went to game 7 of the finals. KG wasn't healthy from his knee injury and PP and RA were clearly starting to age past the point where they could carry a team offensively. While those players were all-stars, none of them were on any all-nba teams, none of them were mvp candidates. PP was our best scorer, and he was tied for 20th in the league in scoring in the playoffs. KG was our best rebounder, and he was also tied for 20th in the playoffs in rebounding.

  I think it's possible (although no small task) to surround Rondo with that level of talent over the next 4-5 years. Since you're so down on building around Rondo, I'd wonder whether you had a scenario in mind that you'd honestly say was clearly more likely to happen than that. No "we should just tank for a year and we'll end up with Wiggins" nonsense, something that you think is realistically likely to occur.

We've been through this before, Tim. Name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs or FGs outside 10 feet. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs or FGs outside 10 feet who is an anti-leader. Now name the last team that won a title that was built around a PG who can't shoot FTs or FGs outside 10 feet who is an anti-leader who takes nights off when he's bored or annoyed or feels slighted by something. I can keep going....

  Maybe you could keep going with your realistic scenario to build a title winning team without Rondo that's clearly more likely than winning with Rondo.

[LilRip]

I define "building around" as being the centerpiece of the franchise and I just dont see that in him. I think his skillset, while unique, is also too flawed and I dont think he has the attitude or maturity to be a team leader. I've said this in another thread but Rondo doesn't strike me as that number 1 guy. I think he'd be great as 1A. He can be part of your core and someone to build with, but not someone to build around. Does that make sense? Lol

It makes sense and its true for any player.  That's what I take issue with as far as a single player being labeled a centerpiece.

There are a few players that are true superstars, and even they need help.  Rondo can absolutely be one of your three best players on a championship team.  So to me, building with Rondo, yes I would like that.

Well obviously since it's a team game, you'd need a capable team. My point was that there's a difference between building with Rondo and building around Rondo.

To use a different player (so as to minimize the bias), take Josh Smith for example. He's got a terrific skill set, does tremendous work on the boards and defense, can put up points, can stuff the stat sheet, definitely a potential key piece to a puzzle... but he's not someone you build around. Take Blake Griffin for example. He can put up points, crash the offensive rebounds, and is also a terrific piece to have... but he's not someone you build around.

It's CP3 that you build around if u were the Clippers. Similarly, it's the KGs, the Tim Duncans, the Lebrons, the Roses, the Pierces, the Kobes, the Durants of the world that you're looking for. Dominant players with almost no flaws in their game who command the respect of the whole locker room. I just don't see Rondo as being that guy. Yes I know its hard to find those players, but those are the type of players i'd truly be "comfortable building around".

[Celtics18]

Well obviously since it's a team game, you'd need a capable team. My point was that there's a difference between building with Rondo and building around Rondo.

To me, the only difference there is semantics.  I don't care what you want to call Rondo,  as long as you keep him.  I'd be thrilled if Danny manages to bring in players who are good enough to continue to spark debate about who is the "best" player on the team.  That will mean he has done a good job adding the talent necessary to compete. 

If we can bring in at least one player who many think is better than Rondo, then we'll be well on our way to rebuilding a contender.  It will mean we have at least two superstar level talents.  That'd be a good start.

[OsirusCeltics]

The ONLY way I'll feel comfortable is if the Celtics build around Rondo similar to Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, or  Magic

Just look at Kidd's team on the Nets or Mavs, Magic's Lakers teams, Payton's Sonics teams

A team where there are a plethora of two way wing players, who can score and defend the best player. Big men who can defend the rim and paint always, and grab alot of offensive rebounds

With Rondo's lack of a jumpshot, you need players around him that can defend and help the Celtics retain extra offensive possessions for them to go far in the playoffs

[BleedGreen1989]

Super late Bump just for snaps and giggles...

I think it'll be interesting to see how people's opinions sway throughout this season.

[GreenFaith1819]

Very.