Give KG/Sully/Green/Pierce/Rondo a chance

[slamtheking]

with Doc being replaced by a hopefully competent coach, I would expect a change in offensive and defensive philosophy.

I'd hope to see more emphasis on up-tempo offense with some offensive rebounding to try to increase offensive possessions.

I'd also believe a less-complex defensive system would be employed.  A system where more players can understand it and pick it up quicker that would also allow our big men to be in a better position for defensive rebounding --> thus reducing the offensive possessions for the other team.  We'd probably give up more easy baskets but I suspect we'll score more second-chance points than we do now.

[gpap]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

[BballTim]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

  It certainly says as much as the 15-17 start we got off to in 11-12 before getting to game 7 of the ecf or the 27-27 finish to the 09-10 season that went to game 7 of the finals. It's not like we haven't seen the same thing multiple times in the last few years.

[soap07]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

  It certainly says as much as the 15-17 start we got off to in 11-12 before getting to game 7 of the ecf or the 27-27 finish to the 09-10 season that went to game 7 of the finals. It's not like we haven't seen the same thing multiple times in the last few years.

Except it wasn't the same thing. Pierce/KG were older last year. There were injuries the other years. It was a different roster. Just because the records were similar doesn't mean the circumstances were.

Last year's team was average at full strength.

[Chris]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

  It certainly says as much as the 15-17 start we got off to in 11-12 before getting to game 7 of the ecf or the 27-27 finish to the 09-10 season that went to game 7 of the finals. It's not like we haven't seen the same thing multiple times in the last few years.

Except it wasn't the same thing. Pierce/KG were older last year. There were injuries the other years. It was a different roster. Just because the records were similar doesn't mean the circumstances were.

Last year's team was average at full strength.

But they were never at full strength. 

Green, coming off a year away from the game recovering from heart surgery didn't hit his stride until the final 30 games or so. 

Courtney Lee didn't look comfortable at all until about 2 weeks before Rondo went down with injury. 

Bradley was out most of the time Rondo was healthy.   

Sully, a rookie, didn't really start to hit his stride until a few weeks before went down with an injury.

Brandon Bass didn't play himself back into shape after an offseason celebrating his new contract until the last 1/3 of the season.

And Pierce was on cruise control for the first half of the season, and didn't start actually playing hard until Rondo went down.

Basing anything on that first half of the season is very tough, because they were such a team in transition.  And the second half was no better, since arguably their best player, and second best big man were out, and they literally had no real healthy PGs on the roster.

While I certainly don't think this is a team anyone should put money on winning 50 games next year, and I certainly believe it's time to start collecting assets, IF the deals are there...that doesn't change the fact that this remains one of the top 3 or 4 most talented teams in the East, if they can get healthy, and decide to run it back.

[soap07]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

  It certainly says as much as the 15-17 start we got off to in 11-12 before getting to game 7 of the ecf or the 27-27 finish to the 09-10 season that went to game 7 of the finals. It's not like we haven't seen the same thing multiple times in the last few years.

Except it wasn't the same thing. Pierce/KG were older last year. There were injuries the other years. It was a different roster. Just because the records were similar doesn't mean the circumstances were.

Last year's team was average at full strength.

But they were never at full strength. 

Green, coming off a year away from the game recovering from heart surgery didn't hit his stride until the final 30 games or so. 

Courtney Lee didn't look comfortable at all until about 2 weeks before Rondo went down with injury. 

Bradley was out most of the time Rondo was healthy.   

Sully, a rookie, didn't really start to hit his stride until a few weeks before went down with an injury.

Brandon Bass didn't play himself back into shape after an offseason celebrating his new contract until the last 1/3 of the season.

And Pierce was on cruise control for the first half of the season, and didn't start actually playing hard until Rondo went down.

Basing anything on that first half of the season is very tough, because they were such a team in transition.  And the second half was no better, since arguably their best player, and second best big man were out, and they literally had no real healthy PGs on the roster.

While I certainly don't think this is a team anyone should put money on winning 50 games next year, and I certainly believe it's time to start collecting assets, IF the deals are there...that doesn't change the fact that this remains one of the top 3 or 4 most talented teams in the East, if they can get healthy, and decide to run it back.

I'll give you Bradley. And I'll give you Green finding his comfort level on the court.

Everything else is very subjective. Pierce, Lee and Sully were all healthy - just not playing well until later. And really, did Lee ever get it together?

I also agree that the second half of the season is tough to get a gauge on the team with Rondo, Sully and....pretty much everyone with a green jersey going down.


WIth that being said, in the first half, they were for the most part healthy. Bradley being in the line up wouldn't have made too much of a difference - and that was seen later in the season.

[Chris]

WIth that being said, in the first half, they were for the most part healthy. Bradley being in the line up wouldn't have made too much of a difference - and that was seen later in the season.

You add Bradley, and have Jeff Green playing like he did down the stretch, and it makes a MASSIVE difference on the start of the season. 

[LooseCannon]

Give KG/Sully/Green/Bradley/Rondo a chance, with Paul Pierce as a Sixth Man of the Year candidate.

[kozlodoev]

with Doc being replaced by a hopefully competent coach, I would expect a change in offensive and defensive philosophy.

I'd hope to see more emphasis on up-tempo offense with some offensive rebounding to try to increase offensive possessions.

I'd also believe a less-complex defensive system would be employed.  A system where more players can understand it and pick it up quicker that would also allow our big men to be in a better position for defensive rebounding --> thus reducing the offensive possessions for the other team.  We'd probably give up more easy baskets but I suspect we'll score more second-chance points than we do now.

Oh goodie, we'll be Mike D'Antoni's Knicks.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I would love to give them one final run, but somethings has to give.

I love Paul, but he has to go off the bench and make Green start. It's time to hand Jeff Green that spot, and he has to accept it. He would still get 20-25 minutes a game, but we need Green to be comfortable staring at the 3.

Also, we get a Center, via draft or trade fro a veteran one,  it does not matter. We need to slide KG at PF, simply because he cannot handle the 5 spot anymore. He still will patrol our defense, direct everyone where to go and when to rotate, but he cant be our pick and roll stopper AND the last line of defense anymore, someone has to be the rim protector.

Rondo/SG/Green/KG/C with Pierce, Lee, Sully coming off our bench, i believe is a 38-40 win team already. Now depending on who we get as our SG and Center will determine how much better we are going to be.

(there are trade scenarios I want to do here but that's another story for another thread)

[BballTim]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

  It certainly says as much as the 15-17 start we got off to in 11-12 before getting to game 7 of the ecf or the 27-27 finish to the 09-10 season that went to game 7 of the finals. It's not like we haven't seen the same thing multiple times in the last few years.

Except it wasn't the same thing. Pierce/KG were older last year. There were injuries the other years. It was a different roster. Just because the records were similar doesn't mean the circumstances were.

Last year's team was average at full strength.

  No, it was the same. The only difference is we didn't have a healthy playoff team to silence the fretting.

[BballTim]

In my opinion, a team of KG, Sully, Green, Pierce and Rondo is average at best.

The Celtics record before they lost Rondo this season, was 23-26 and that was with Sullinger.

I think that says it all.

  It certainly says as much as the 15-17 start we got off to in 11-12 before getting to game 7 of the ecf or the 27-27 finish to the 09-10 season that went to game 7 of the finals. It's not like we haven't seen the same thing multiple times in the last few years.

Except it wasn't the same thing. Pierce/KG were older last year. There were injuries the other years. It was a different roster. Just because the records were similar doesn't mean the circumstances were.

Last year's team was average at full strength.

But they were never at full strength. 

Green, coming off a year away from the game recovering from heart surgery didn't hit his stride until the final 30 games or so. 

Courtney Lee didn't look comfortable at all until about 2 weeks before Rondo went down with injury. 

Bradley was out most of the time Rondo was healthy.   

Sully, a rookie, didn't really start to hit his stride until a few weeks before went down with an injury.

Brandon Bass didn't play himself back into shape after an offseason celebrating his new contract until the last 1/3 of the season.

And Pierce was on cruise control for the first half of the season, and didn't start actually playing hard until Rondo went down.

Basing anything on that first half of the season is very tough, because they were such a team in transition.  And the second half was no better, since arguably their best player, and second best big man were out, and they literally had no real healthy PGs on the roster.

While I certainly don't think this is a team anyone should put money on winning 50 games next year, and I certainly believe it's time to start collecting assets, IF the deals are there...that doesn't change the fact that this remains one of the top 3 or 4 most talented teams in the East, if they can get healthy, and decide to run it back.

I'll give you Bradley. And I'll give you Green finding his comfort level on the court.

Everything else is very subjective. Pierce, Lee and Sully were all healthy - just not playing well until later. And really, did Lee ever get it together?

I also agree that the second half of the season is tough to get a gauge on the team with Rondo, Sully and....pretty much everyone with a green jersey going down.


WIth that being said, in the first half, they were for the most part healthy. Bradley being in the line up wouldn't have made too much of a difference - and that was seen later in the season.

  PP and Jet were healthy in November, not so much in December or January. Danny talked about it during one of the broadcasts. Check the corresponding dips in their stats as well. Also, the defense took a while to get into shape with the new players learning the new system. Early in the season the defense fell apart when KG was on the bench. That was less true as the season progressed. If we started the season with our Feb-Apr defense our record would have been significantly better.

[Fred Roberts]

yeah, Rondo and Green and Avery were never healthy or at the top of their game at the same time. we never saw what that combo would look like.

it's pretty amazing we even made the playoffs with the injury hit parade. avery, rondo, barbosa, sullinger and who knows who else got hurt last year. we shouldn't have been in the playoffs.

I think a new coach is a great thing for this team if we liquidate assets or run it back with some tweaks. Jeff Green is now one of our best players. That's going to be a big story for this upcoming season. Before Rondo got hurt, he was still sucking wind and adding nothing. Now, he changes the game.

If we run it back and look to the Spurs formula, we pretty much have a lot of it covered:
KG ~ Duncan
Pierce ~ Manu
Rondo ~ Parker
Green ~ Leonard
Sullinger ~ Diaw
Lee/Jet ~ Green
XXXXXX ~ Splitter
Bradley ~ XXXXXX
Bass ~ Blair

There are a lot of similarities there, if Danny looks to that formula. The clear gap is that Tiago Splitter gives Duncan a lot of help and we continue whiff on big men that could help KG protect the bucket. Is Shavlik that guy? If not, find Gortat or someone else.

Long story short, if you run it back it's not the same team that underachieved 1st half last year. It would be risky in terms of the 2014 draft, but interesting nonetheless. 

T-Will, Shav and Crawford are absolute wildcards.

[kozlodoev]

yeah, Rondo and Green and Avery were never healthy or at the top of their game at the same time. we never saw what that combo would look like.

it's pretty amazing we even made the playoffs with the injury hit parade. avery, rondo, barbosa, sullinger and who knows who else got hurt last year. we shouldn't have been in the playoffs.

I think a new coach is a great thing for this team if we liquidate assets or run it back with some tweaks. Jeff Green is now one of our best players. That's going to be a big story for this upcoming season. Before Rondo got hurt, he was still sucking wind and adding nothing. Now, he changes the game.

If we run it back and look to the Spurs formula, we pretty much have a lot of it covered:
KG ~ Duncan
Pierce ~ Manu
Rondo ~ Parker
Green ~ Leonard
Sullinger ~ Diaw
Lee/Jet ~ Green
XXXXXX ~ Splitter
Bradley ~ XXXXXX
Bass ~ Blair

There are a lot of similarities there, if Danny looks to that formula. The clear gap is that Tiago Splitter gives Duncan a lot of help and we continue whiff on big men that could help KG protect the bucket. Is Shavlik that guy? If not, find Gortat or someone else.

Long story short, if you run it back it's not the same team that underachieved 1st half last year. It would be risky in terms of the 2014 draft, but interesting nonetheless. 

T-Will, Shav and Crawford are absolute wildcards.

Of course there are a lot of similarities. Just like the Spurs, we have guards, we have forwards, and we have centers. The difference is, our guys are not as good as theirs.

[Fred Roberts]

Can I extract a Tommy Point from you for that post?

Pierce > Ginobili
Green => Leonard
Rondo is close to Parker (sometimes better, sometimes worse) and KG is close to Duncan (inferior offense).

I'm just saying, Pop could bake a nice souffle outta that Celtics roster with a tweak or two. Maybe another coach can too?