I was going to put Duncan ahead of Bird if he beat the Heat

[fitzhickey]

I think you need to reconsider your criteria if you think Timmy is any discussion of who's better than Bird.

Bird: 3 NBA titles playing in an era of Magic, Kareem, Dr J, Moses Malone, Sidney Moncrief, Bernard King,  Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy, Terry Cummings, Charles Barkley, Bob Lanier, etc...   an era of truly great players.   2 NBA finals MVP awards

Bird: 3 straight MVP awards while playing in the era of those same players mentioned above.

Bird: Best player on every team he played on which always had other all stars.   not even debatable

Duncan: great player, but he's not winning titles against that level of competition nor is he dominating the league where he's winning consecutive MVPs.  It's even debatable if he's been the best player on his team the past 2-3 years.  (I think he has been but heard quite a bit of commentary by others that think it's Parker)

I get such a kick out of people saying NBA players were better 20+ years ago. The sport has become international and now the NBA doesnt only have the best players in the US, it has the best players in the world. Guys like Moncrief, King, Worthy, Cummings, are nothing but nice players in today's game. I will grant you that the big men of 20 years ago were better than today, but that's only because big guys are more versatile in today's game. I cant imagine what a Dirk would have done 20 years ago. Nobody would have been able to guard him.

The reason the NBA seems watered down is because Lebron is so much better than everyone else. A guy like Chris Paul would be considered all world throughout any time period in the NBA, but because he cant hold a candle to Lebron people just consider his a solid all-star.

Glad I could amuse a delightfully condescending person such as yourself.

I've seen the players of both eras.  Give me the players of the 80's any day.  Officiating was less star-biased back---not the level of ridiculousness that Lebron enjoys today.   Lebron looks so much better than everyone else in part thanks to the blatant star treatment he receives.  Dirk would do well in any era, as would Timmy and Lebron, but Bird was an all-time great.

First, Lebron average 7.6 free throw attempts per game this year. For the amount of hits Lebron takes, that number is absurdly low. Jordan once averaged 12 per game.

And although Bird is my all time favorite player, lets not pretend he is in the same stratosphere as Lebron. Nothing against Larry, but Lebron weighs 40 pounds more and is 10 times the athlete Larry was.Granted, guys of today have huge unfair advantages with the training, supplements, etc. But take Bird at his prime and put him up against Lebron right now and I fear it would not end well for our guy.

being un-athletic never stopped bird. up against dr j, mj, pippen, magic who were all superior athletes didnt stop him from having success. i dont think lebron could beat bird

[KG_ended_Bias]

PG: Magic Johnson
SG: Michael Jordan/6th man Kobe Bryant
SF: Larry Bird/ 8th Lebron James back-up pg & sf
PF: Bill Russell/ 7th man Tim Duncan
C : Shaquille O'neal & Hakeem Olajuwon alternate starts

Wilt can replace Shaq or Dream but my 1-4 would never change!

[BballTim]

I think you need to reconsider your criteria if you think Timmy is any discussion of who's better than Bird.

Bird: 3 NBA titles playing in an era of Magic, Kareem, Dr J, Moses Malone, Sidney Moncrief, Bernard King,  Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy, Terry Cummings, Charles Barkley, Bob Lanier, etc...   an era of truly great players.   2 NBA finals MVP awards

Bird: 3 straight MVP awards while playing in the era of those same players mentioned above.

Bird: Best player on every team he played on which always had other all stars.   not even debatable

Duncan: great player, but he's not winning titles against that level of competition nor is he dominating the league where he's winning consecutive MVPs.  It's even debatable if he's been the best player on his team the past 2-3 years.  (I think he has been but heard quite a bit of commentary by others that think it's Parker)

I get such a kick out of people saying NBA players were better 20+ years ago. The sport has become international and now the NBA doesnt only have the best players in the US, it has the best players in the world. Guys like Moncrief, King, Worthy, Cummings, are nothing but nice players in today's game. I will grant you that the big men of 20 years ago were better than today, but that's only because big guys are more versatile in today's game. I cant imagine what a Dirk would have done 20 years ago. Nobody would have been able to guard him.

The reason the NBA seems watered down is because Lebron is so much better than everyone else. A guy like Chris Paul would be considered all world throughout any time period in the NBA, but because he cant hold a candle to Lebron people just consider his a solid all-star.

  The nba is kind of watered down. There are more teams and more roster spots in the league now than there were in the 80s. A guy like Chris Paul would have to deal with defenders hand-checking him in the 80s instead of the "don't touch the point guards on the perimeter" defenses he sees now. It's not close to a given that he'd be better than Isiah, although it's pretty obvious that he'd be looking up at Magic on any reasonable point guard list.

[LB3533]

Without factoring in physical and athletic attributes, Bird is the most tough, skilled, intelligent and heady player in the history of the game of basketball.

[RebusRankin]

Duncan top 10, Bird top 5.

Bird not only won 3 MVPs (should have won in 81 and 87 too) but he was top 2 from 80/81-86/87 (3 wins, 3 runner ups), 3rd in 87/88 and 4th in 79/80. So 9 years, no worse than top 4 with most of that in the top 2. Duncan can't claim that.

As for players being better now? Debatable. How many great shooters are there now? Ball handlers? How do past players fare with today's star calls, lack of hand checking, ability to carry the ball or run over people?

Oh and Russell, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Duncan 7.

[Django]

FWIW here is my top 10..

Jordan
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Wilt (I just cant ignore the dominance and only Russell keeping him from more rings)
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Oscar

LeBron is on the outside looking in...but projects to into the top 7....at least..

I have Kareem over Bird...because  6 rings...6 MVPs...

Magic...though it hates to say...I gave him the edge to prolonged greatness (though it was cut short at 31) and more rings..however I think Bird at his peak was better.

Russell....I know here its popular to put Bird over Russell. But I cant. 11 rings...is 11 rings!

Now if Bird didnt have back problems? Might be #2 or #3 on my list.

[BballTim]

Bird - top 5.


Duncan - top 10

  I think fringe top 10.

[LB3533]

Bird - top 5.


Duncan - top 10

  I think fringe top 10.

Duncan's 4 chips really elevates/inflates his overall reputation/game.

[D.o.s.]

Bird - top 5.


Duncan - top 10

  I think fringe top 10.

Duncan's 4 chips really elevates/inflates his overall reputation/game.

Tim Duncan could be put forward as a credible choice for 'Best Power Forward to ever play in the NBA.'

There's more than four championships at work. 

Comparing Bird and Duncan, to me, is apples and chainsaws.

[wdleehi]

Bird - top 5.


Duncan - top 10

  I think fringe top 10.

Duncan's 4 chips really elevates/inflates his overall reputation/game.

Not to mention his MVPs, all-NBA appearances, all-defense appearances and of course all-stars selections.


He and Shaq are still the two best players of their era.

[soap07]

FWIW, I don't think there's any serious argument as to who was better in their peaks. But I think you can make a real case that Duncan had a better career than Bird.

[syfy9]

FWIW here is my top 10..

Jordan
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Wilt (I just cant ignore the dominance and only Russell keeping him from more rings)
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Oscar

Oscar over Hakeem?

[guava_wrench]

I think you need to reconsider your criteria if you think Timmy is any discussion of who's better than Bird.

Bird: 3 NBA titles playing in an era of Magic, Kareem, Dr J, Moses Malone, Sidney Moncrief, Bernard King,  Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Dominique Wilkins, James Worthy, Terry Cummings, Charles Barkley, Bob Lanier, etc...   an era of truly great players.   2 NBA finals MVP awards

Bird: 3 straight MVP awards while playing in the era of those same players mentioned above.

Bird: Best player on every team he played on which always had other all stars.   not even debatable

Duncan: great player, but he's not winning titles against that level of competition nor is he dominating the league where he's winning consecutive MVPs.  It's even debatable if he's been the best player on his team the past 2-3 years.  (I think he has been but heard quite a bit of commentary by others that think it's Parker)

I get such a kick out of people saying NBA players were better 20+ years ago. The sport has become international and now the NBA doesnt only have the best players in the US, it has the best players in the world. Guys like Moncrief, King, Worthy, Cummings, are nothing but nice players in today's game. I will grant you that the big men of 20 years ago were better than today, but that's only because big guys are more versatile in today's game. I cant imagine what a Dirk would have done 20 years ago. Nobody would have been able to guard him.

The reason the NBA seems watered down is because Lebron is so much better than everyone else. A guy like Chris Paul would be considered all world throughout any time period in the NBA, but because he cant hold a candle to Lebron people just consider his a solid all-star.

Glad I could amuse a delightfully condescending person such as yourself.

I've seen the players of both eras.  Give me the players of the 80's any day.  Officiating was less star-biased back---not the level of ridiculousness that Lebron enjoys today.   Lebron looks so much better than everyone else in part thanks to the blatant star treatment he receives.  Dirk would do well in any era, as would Timmy and Lebron, but Bird was an all-time great.

First, Lebron average 7.6 free throw attempts per game this year. For the amount of hits Lebron takes, that number is absurdly low. Jordan once averaged 12 per game.

Data schmata!

 

I was shocked with Cummings being presented as evidence that players were better back then. There is also the problem of including Jordan just because he was in the NBA at the same time as Bird. When we won in 86, it was Jordan's second season and he was injured most of it. In fact, Jordan didn't get a championship until 1991.