Herald: Boston knew Doc didn't intend to rebuild when he signed contract

[Boris Badenov]

So why do so many people hyperventilate and call him a traitor? Why do people selectively trust some anonymous sources and not others?

Because those people have the maturity level of the typical 3 year old?

[Who]

If true, I think is is a really crappy way to run a team.

If you want someone who can be here long term and Doc didn't want to do that, just make a [dang] coaching change back then. Don't go through all this nonsense (five year contract) and lies (loyalty to C's, interest in being here for the long term) to your fanbase (and players). Just a ****ty and underhanded way to do things.

[Fafnir]

Seriously, there has never been a single shred of evidence, a reliable source, or anything credible that indicated that Doc initiated these trade talks. Every single published source has said that either the Clippers or the Celtics management started it, Doc has never been portrayed as the one who started it.

Except for the initial reports that there was mutual interest in Clippers and Doc before any word of negotiations starting.

Back channel communications clearly happened, whatever Doc's camp is leaking.

[Fafnir]

So why do so many people hyperventilate and call him a traitor? Why do people selectively trust some anonymous sources and not others?

Because those people have the maturity level of the typical 3 year old?

Enough insulting other posters. Second time you have, don't have a third.

[Fafnir]

If true, I think is is a really crappy way to run a team.

If you want someone who can be here long term and Doc didn't want to do that, just make a [dang] coaching change back then. Don't go through all this nonsense (five year contract) and lies (loyalty to C's, interest in being here for the long term) to your fanbase (and players). Just a ****ty and underhanded way to do things.

Which is why I don't buy it, sounds like spin.

[greenhead85]

Doc lacks the patience of developing players and helping out players from the roster to be more productive. He only goes for All-Star or very talented players. We got a lot of young players which Danny brought in but aren't getting playing time. He couldn't even create plays for players like TWill, Lee, Melo, etc. I mean he could bring in those players on court and let them bring out some of the talent and skills in them that could further contribute to the team, even in small ways. A lot of coaches (ie Popovich, SVG, JVG, Phil Jackson, etc) do these stuff - think of Danny Green, Neal and Splitter. In short, he couldn't develop genuine role players to contribute big time. There are ways where our young/role players really could contribute in bigger ways but Doc couldnt do it. It seems like there is a disconnect between Danny's player choices and Doc's.

He is a poor man's KC Jones. KC was heavily dependent on his All Stars even if age is catching up on them. Luckily though that his Big Three then where at their prime when they won numerous division, conference and championship titles. At least he played young or role players to really contribute (ie Scott Wedman, Greg Kite, Fred Roberts, Henderson). 

[Boris Badenov]

Doc lacks the patience of developing players and helping out players from the roster to be more productive. He only goes for All-Star or very talented players. We got a lot of young players which Danny brought in but aren't getting playing time. He couldn't even create plays for players like TWill, Lee, Melo, etc. I mean he could bring in those players on court and let them bring out some of the talent and skills in them that could further contribute to the team, even in small ways. A lot of coaches (ie Popovich, SVG, JVG, Phil Jackson, etc) do these stuff - think of Danny Green, Neal and Splitter. In short, he couldn't develop genuine role players to contribute big time. There are ways where our young/role players really could contribute in bigger ways but Doc couldnt do it. It seems like there is a disconnect between Danny's player choices and Doc's.

He is a poor man's KC Jones. KC was heavily dependent on his All Stars even if age is catching up on them. Luckily though that his Big Three then where at their prime when they won numerous division, conference and championship titles. At least he played young or role players to really contribute (ie Scott Wedman, Greg Kite, Fred Roberts, Henderson).

I don't get this. Doc rested KG and Pierce a ton this year, and gave substantial minutes to a bunch of guys with little to no NBA experience.

He also played Rondo, Perkins, Powe and Baby a ton at very young ages - Rondo was 21 and Perkins was 22 when they started on the 2008 championship team.

[Celtics18]

Doc lacks the patience of developing players and helping out players from the roster to be more productive. He only goes for All-Star or very talented players. We got a lot of young players which Danny brought in but aren't getting playing time. He couldn't even create plays for players like TWill, Lee, Melo, etc. I mean he could bring in those players on court and let them bring out some of the talent and skills in them that could further contribute to the team, even in small ways. A lot of coaches (ie Popovich, SVG, JVG, Phil Jackson, etc) do these stuff - think of Danny Green, Neal and Splitter. In short, he couldn't develop genuine role players to contribute big time. There are ways where our young/role players really could contribute in bigger ways but Doc couldnt do it. It seems like there is a disconnect between Danny's player choices and Doc's.

He is a poor man's KC Jones. KC was heavily dependent on his All Stars even if age is catching up on them. Luckily though that his Big Three then where at their prime when they won numerous division, conference and championship titles. At least he played young or role players to really contribute (ie Scott Wedman, Greg Kite, Fred Roberts, Henderson).

When will these guys learn that NBA basketball games should be coached like an eleven year olds' T-Ball league.  All fifteen players need to be part of the rotation.  If only Pop had played Nando DeColo, Patty Mills, Aaron Baynes, Dejuan Blair, and Cory Joseph bigger minutes, the Spurs would be NBA champions. 

[sed522002]

This is a TOTAL PR spin. It's funny because the explanation that was given is almost exactly what I said they would say-in another forum post.

How do you know?

Seriously, there has never been a single shred of evidence, a reliable source, or anything credible that indicated that Doc initiated these trade talks. Every single published source has said that either the Clippers or the Celtics management started it, Doc has never been portrayed as the one who started it.

So why do so many people hyperventilate and call him a traitor? Why do people selectively trust some anonymous sources and not others?

Considering the evidence is pretty overwhelming that Doc had nothing to do with this, I think we can feel pretty safe assuming that until someone actually comes out and says that Doc did anything.

Please explain the evidence? We don't have evidence of anything, except stories coming from "sources"..we don't even know who's camp the sources belong to. There has been conflicting stories throughout the entire mess. I personally don't believe anything that's written and don't care at this point. Either you're the coach or you're not the coach..I don't need the sentiments.

[greenhead85]

Doc lacks the patience of developing players and helping out players from the roster to be more productive. He only goes for All-Star or very talented players. We got a lot of young players which Danny brought in but aren't getting playing time. He couldn't even create plays for players like TWill, Lee, Melo, etc. I mean he could bring in those players on court and let them bring out some of the talent and skills in them that could further contribute to the team, even in small ways. A lot of coaches (ie Popovich, SVG, JVG, Phil Jackson, etc) do these stuff - think of Danny Green, Neal and Splitter. In short, he couldn't develop genuine role players to contribute big time. There are ways where our young/role players really could contribute in bigger ways but Doc couldnt do it. It seems like there is a disconnect between Danny's player choices and Doc's.

He is a poor man's KC Jones. KC was heavily dependent on his All Stars even if age is catching up on them. Luckily though that his Big Three then where at their prime when they won numerous division, conference and championship titles. At least he played young or role players to really contribute (ie Scott Wedman, Greg Kite, Fred Roberts, Henderson).

When will these guys learn that NBA basketball games should be coached like an eleven year olds' T-Ball league.  All fifteen players need to be part of the rotation.  If only Pop had played Nando DeColo, Patty Mills, Aaron Baynes, Dejuan Blair, and Cory Joseph bigger minutes, the Spurs would be NBA champions.

Not bigger minutes. Meaningful and well-played minutes. De Colo, Mills, Blair and Joseph contributed in meaningful and "fruitful" ways in the Spurs' title run this year. Lastly, Green, Neal and Splitter were also role players but who contributed big time. Pop was patient enough to really develop and slowly integrated/incorporated them to the rotation. I bet these 3 guys wouldn't get similar minutes under Doc's coaching style.

[Celtics18]

Doc lacks the patience of developing players and helping out players from the roster to be more productive. He only goes for All-Star or very talented players. We got a lot of young players which Danny brought in but aren't getting playing time. He couldn't even create plays for players like TWill, Lee, Melo, etc. I mean he could bring in those players on court and let them bring out some of the talent and skills in them that could further contribute to the team, even in small ways. A lot of coaches (ie Popovich, SVG, JVG, Phil Jackson, etc) do these stuff - think of Danny Green, Neal and Splitter. In short, he couldn't develop genuine role players to contribute big time. There are ways where our young/role players really could contribute in bigger ways but Doc couldnt do it. It seems like there is a disconnect between Danny's player choices and Doc's.

He is a poor man's KC Jones. KC was heavily dependent on his All Stars even if age is catching up on them. Luckily though that his Big Three then where at their prime when they won numerous division, conference and championship titles. At least he played young or role players to really contribute (ie Scott Wedman, Greg Kite, Fred Roberts, Henderson).

When will these guys learn that NBA basketball games should be coached like an eleven year olds' T-Ball league.  All fifteen players need to be part of the rotation.  If only Pop had played Nando DeColo, Patty Mills, Aaron Baynes, Dejuan Blair, and Cory Joseph bigger minutes, the Spurs would be NBA champions.

Not bigger minutes. Meaningful and well-played minutes. De Colo, Mills, Blair and Joseph contributed in meaningful and "fruitful" ways in the Spurs' title run this year. Lastly, Green, Neal and Splitter were also role players but who contributed big time. Pop was patient enough to really develop and slowly integrated/incorporated them to the rotation. I bet these 3 guys wouldn't get similar minutes under Doc's coaching style.

And, Terrence Williams, Jordan Crawford, and Shav Randolph contributed for the Celtics this year.  The results just weren't as fruitful.  That has more to do with losing our star point guard than Doc not getting enough out of end of bench guys, in my opinion.

[kozlodoev]

Pop was patient enough to really develop and slowly integrated/incorporated them to the rotation

This is hilarious.

So Pop is "patient enough to really develop" players, and Doc "doesn't play his rookies unless he has to" -- even though they're pretty much doing the same thing (introducing new players gradually to an established veteran rotation).

I bet these 3 guys wouldn't get similar minutes under Doc's coaching style.

You don't have to "bet" anything. Just pay more attention to the careers of the likes of Glen Davis, Jared Sullinger, or Avery Bradley.

[greenhead85]

Pop was patient enough to really develop and slowly integrated/incorporated them to the rotation

This is hilarious.

So Pop is "patient enough to really develop" players, and Doc "doesn't play his rookies unless he has to" -- even though they're pretty much doing the same thing (introducing new players gradually to an established veteran rotation).

I bet these 3 guys wouldn't get similar minutes under Doc's coaching style.

You don't have to "bet" anything. Just pay more attention to the careers of the likes of Glen Davis, Jared Sullinger, or Avery Bradley.

30+ minutes per game for aging PP, KG and Ray. They could bring the game to a competitive level but would most of the time fade in the 4th because they all lose gas. Where are the other players who should be contributing and filling out the "holes" while the Stars are getting their very short rest? This year alone, when we lost Ray, the transition (from the Big 3 to the young guys)could have come early because at the start of the season the team was never built to contend for the title but to compete and develop players for the future. Unfortunately,the competition was concentrated to a handful of players and it expanded only for a while when Rondo and Sully got down with injuries. Doc basically stunted the growth and development of young talents.

For me, Doc is only an excellent coach when he's got a lot of All Stars. I bet he wouldn't even achieve as close the Spurs performance as they did under Pop had he been the one steering Tim and company.

[kozlodoev]

Pop was patient enough to really develop and slowly integrated/incorporated them to the rotation

This is hilarious.

So Pop is "patient enough to really develop" players, and Doc "doesn't play his rookies unless he has to" -- even though they're pretty much doing the same thing (introducing new players gradually to an established veteran rotation).

I bet these 3 guys wouldn't get similar minutes under Doc's coaching style.

You don't have to "bet" anything. Just pay more attention to the careers of the likes of Glen Davis, Jared Sullinger, or Avery Bradley.

30+ minutes per game for aging PP, KG and Ray. They could bring the game to a competitive level but would most of the time fade in the 4th because they all lose gas. Where are the other players who should be contributing and filling out the "holes" while the Stars are getting their very short rest? This year alone, when we lost Ray, the transition (from the Big 3 to the young guys)could have come early because at the start of the season the team was never built to contend for the title but to compete and develop players for the future. Unfortunately,the competition was concentrated to a handful of players and it expanded only for a while when Rondo and Sully got down with injuries. Doc basically stunted the growth and development of young talents.

For me, Doc is only an excellent coach when he's got a lot of All Stars. I bet he wouldn't even achieve as close the Spurs performance as they did under Pop had he been the one steering Tim and company.

You surely jest. Duncan played more games and minutes per than Garnett this season.

And if you dig a bit more, Duncan also played more total minutes in 4 of the last 5 seasons, and more minutes per game in 3.

So much about that theory.

[Evantime34]

If this is true it was a very smart move for Ainge and Doc. For Ainge non compete clause gives C's compensation for Doc. For Doc, sets his value high so the team he goes to has to pay him big time.

Danny always gets painted at the snake oil salesman (because he is), but this would change my opinion on Doc. For him to know that he wasn't staying then to go into interviews and talk about being a Celtic for life and being around for the long hall shows that he can lie in an interview and make it seem convincing.

Before this I always trusted Doc at his word, from now on I will be skeptical of everything he says.