#2 pick now up for trade

[hpantazo]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

To sell tickets. They get a highly recognized, marketable player who otherwise would never sign with them. They sell more tickets for 2-3 years and hope it boosts their rep enough to get another good player or two or that one of their young guys blows up enough to convince Rondo to stay.

These small market teams are desperate. They know their chance of contending is pretty low, they want to sell tickets.

[dasani]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

Presumably, we'd be trading Rondo because we think he's too old for a long rebuild or we think he's not the kind of player you build around.

So why would a team like the Magic or Bobcats want him, then?

A team trading for Rondo would have to already have a young star in place who they think would go well with Rondo.  They'd have to believe they could become very competitive within 2-3 seasons.

my thoughts exactly. Some of the trade scenarios are mind boggling. The only teams that would be willing to trade for him would be contenders or fringe contenders. Teams that won't have lottery picks to trade or desirable assets. However a team like the Rockets might be an exception. They might be willing to part with assets not named Harden, Parsons, and if they get him Dwight. But teams like the Magic, Bobcats, or Kings would not have any reason to do these trades. They would not benefit them in any way.

[hpantazo]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

Presumably, we'd be trading Rondo because we think he's too old for a long rebuild or we think he's not the kind of player you build around.

So why would a team like the Magic or Bobcats want him, then?

A team trading for Rondo would have to already have a young star in place who they think would go well with Rondo.  They'd have to believe they could become very competitive within 2-3 seasons.

my thoughts exactly. Some of the trade scenarios are mind boggling. The only teams that would be willing to trade for him would be contenders or fringe contenders. Teams that won't have lottery picks to trade or desirable assets. However a team like the Rockets might be an exception. They might be willing to part with assets not named Harden, Parsons, and if they get him Dwight. But teams like the Magic, Bobcats, or Kings would not have any reason to do these trades. They would not benefit them in any way.

Why did the celtics sign Dominique Wilkins when they were not a playoff team? Why did the Wizards sign Michael Jordan?

The NBA is a business. Big names sell tickets.

[dasani]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

To sell tickets. They get a highly recognized, marketable player who otherwise would never sign with them. They sell more tickets for 2-3 years and hope it boosts their rep enough to get another good player or two or that one of their young guys blows up enough to convince Rondo to stay.

These small market teams are desperate. They know their chance of contending is pretty low, they want to sell tickets.

That's not how it works. Teams usually sell tickets if the they are winning. Rondo is a star, but to small market, not really basketball popular cities, his star power may not be that great especially enough for tickets sales. A lot of Rondo's popularity comes from being a Celtic. Couple that with him missing a good part of next year (increases especially if he is on a lowly team, he may pull a Bynum) and Rondo is best effective with scorers (not necessarily HOFers but at least a Granger type scorer which none of those teams have), it makes little to no sense.

Also, I like how some folks on here are highly critical of Rondo but think some team will overlook the shortcomings you think Rondo has. I mean, they could be thinking, if he was so great why won't BOS keep him, its not like they are much different than us, especially if BOS is going through the same rebuild!

[hpantazo]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

To sell tickets. They get a highly recognized, marketable player who otherwise would never sign with them. They sell more tickets for 2-3 years and hope it boosts their rep enough to get another good player or two or that one of their young guys blows up enough to convince Rondo to stay.

These small market teams are desperate. They know their chance of contending is pretty low, they want to sell tickets.

That's not how it works. Teams usually sell tickets if the they are winning. Rondo is a star, but to small market, not really basketball popular cities, his star power may not be that great especially enough for tickets sells. A lot of Rondo's popularity comes from being a Celtic. Couple that with him missing a good part of next year (increases especially if he is on a lowly team, he may pull a Bynum) and Rondo is best effective with scorers (not necessarily HOFers but at least a Granger type scorer which none of those teams have), it makes little to no sense.

Also, I like how some folks on here are highly critical of Rondo but think some team will overlook the shortcoming you think Rondo has. I mean, they could be thinking, if he was so great why won't BOS keep him, its not like they are much different than us, especially if BOS is going through the same rebuild!

Unfortunately it is how it works. Many small market teams have used that strategy for decades, It's easier for them to get a big name player for a few years and sell some tickets than it is to build a contender. The majority of fans that will go to games in those markets are going to see star players, on either team, not because they think their team is going to win it all. 

You can't generally apply the same strategy that teams like Boston, LA, NY, Miami and Chicago use to build a team. Teams like the wizards, bobcats, NO, they may just want to sell enough tickets to keep from going under until they get lucky with a Lebron James from the draft. They know that there is no such player in this year's draft, so why not trade the pick for a more marketable name?

[dasani]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

Presumably, we'd be trading Rondo because we think he's too old for a long rebuild or we think he's not the kind of player you build around.

So why would a team like the Magic or Bobcats want him, then?

A team trading for Rondo would have to already have a young star in place who they think would go well with Rondo.  They'd have to believe they could become very competitive within 2-3 seasons.

my thoughts exactly. Some of the trade scenarios are mind boggling. The only teams that would be willing to trade for him would be contenders or fringe contenders. Teams that won't have lottery picks to trade or desirable assets. However a team like the Rockets might be an exception. They might be willing to part with assets not named Harden, Parsons, and if they get him Dwight. But teams like the Magic, Bobcats, or Kings would not have any reason to do these trades. They would not benefit them in any way.

Why did the celtics sign Dominique Wilkins when they were not a playoff team? Why did the Wizards sign Michael Jordan?

The NBA is a business. Big names sell tickets.

huh, totally different things. These guys were free agents in the twilight of their years. The Shaq signing was too. What we are talking about here is trading a prime player to a team that really has no need for them nor does the player want to play for that team.

[hpantazo]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

Presumably, we'd be trading Rondo because we think he's too old for a long rebuild or we think he's not the kind of player you build around.

So why would a team like the Magic or Bobcats want him, then?

A team trading for Rondo would have to already have a young star in place who they think would go well with Rondo.  They'd have to believe they could become very competitive within 2-3 seasons.

my thoughts exactly. Some of the trade scenarios are mind boggling. The only teams that would be willing to trade for him would be contenders or fringe contenders. Teams that won't have lottery picks to trade or desirable assets. However a team like the Rockets might be an exception. They might be willing to part with assets not named Harden, Parsons, and if they get him Dwight. But teams like the Magic, Bobcats, or Kings would not have any reason to do these trades. They would not benefit them in any way.

Why did the celtics sign Dominique Wilkins when they were not a playoff team? Why did the Wizards sign Michael Jordan?

The NBA is a business. Big names sell tickets.

huh, totally different things. These guys were free agents in the twilight of their years. The Shaq signing was too. What we are talking about here is trading a prime player to a team that really has no need for them nor does the player want to play for that team.

Not totally different at all. Those teams were clearly not contenders. They signed those players to make money. Simple as that.

The fact that Rondo is younger is even more reason for them to trade for him and his well recognized name, not less of a reason. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to admit that some teams make moves purely for money, and that a lot of fans pay to see players they consider stars.

[dasani]

Unfortunately it is how it works. Many small market teams have used that strategy for decades, It's easier for them to get a big name player for a few years and sell some tickets than it is to build a contender. The majority of fans that will go to games in those markets are going to see star players, on either team, not because they think their team is going to win it all. 

You can't generally apply the same strategy that teams like Boston, LA, NY, Miami and Chicago use to build a team. Teams like the wizards, bobcats, NO, they may just want to sell enough tickets to keep from going under until they get lucky with a Lebron James from the draft. They know that there is no such player in this year's draft, so why not trade the pick for a more marketable name?

No it does not work that way, especially the situation we are describing here. Bobcats and Magic are no different than any other team that wants to land the next big star like what Wiggins or Parker are projected to be.  Especially the Magic who have gotten those big names in prior drafts (Shaq, Howard, even Webber though they traded him). They are holding on to those high draft picks like actual lottery win tickets. They have a chance to get a star who can develop into a very marketable player. As I already mentioned Rondo's star comes from playing in Boston, it will surely dwindle playing for a lackluster and very bad lottery team. Thus the ticket sales argument you have is invalid.

[hpantazo]

Unfortunately it is how it works. Many small market teams have used that strategy for decades, It's easier for them to get a big name player for a few years and sell some tickets than it is to build a contender. The majority of fans that will go to games in those markets are going to see star players, on either team, not because they think their team is going to win it all. 

You can't generally apply the same strategy that teams like Boston, LA, NY, Miami and Chicago use to build a team. Teams like the wizards, bobcats, NO, they may just want to sell enough tickets to keep from going under until they get lucky with a Lebron James from the draft. They know that there is no such player in this year's draft, so why not trade the pick for a more marketable name?

No it does not work that way, especially the situation we are describing here. Bobcats and Magic are no different than any other team that wants to land the next big star like what Wiggins or Parker are projected to be.  Especially the Magic who have gotten those big names in prior drafts (Shaq, Howard, even Webber though they traded him). They are holding on to those high draft picks like actual lottery win tickets. They have a chance to get a star who can develop into a very marketable player. As I already mentioned Rondo's star comes from playing in Boston, it will surely dwindle playing for a lackluster and very bad lottery team. Thus the ticket sales argument you have is invalid.

Yes, it does work that way. I'm talking about trading THIS YEARS PICK, not next years.There is no superstar in this draft and everyone knows it. There is no lottery ticket to win. Why do you think the top 3 picks are all on the block? Rondo's star is established already. Teams would make $$$ from him regardless of where he plays. Most NBA fans are not knowledgable enough to think Rondo is not as effective with less talented players.

Also, did the magic keep any of their big name drafted players long term? NO. They all went to LA.

[dasani]

Unfortunately it is how it works. Many small market teams have used that strategy for decades, It's easier for them to get a big name player for a few years and sell some tickets than it is to build a contender. The majority of fans that will go to games in those markets are going to see star players, on either team, not because they think their team is going to win it all. 

You can't generally apply the same strategy that teams like Boston, LA, NY, Miami and Chicago use to build a team. Teams like the wizards, bobcats, NO, they may just want to sell enough tickets to keep from going under until they get lucky with a Lebron James from the draft. They know that there is no such player in this year's draft, so why not trade the pick for a more marketable name?

No it does not work that way, especially the situation we are describing here. Bobcats and Magic are no different than any other team that wants to land the next big star like what Wiggins or Parker are projected to be.  Especially the Magic who have gotten those big names in prior drafts (Shaq, Howard, even Webber though they traded him). They are holding on to those high draft picks like actual lottery win tickets. They have a chance to get a star who can develop into a very marketable player. As I already mentioned Rondo's star comes from playing in Boston, it will surely dwindle playing for a lackluster and very bad lottery team. Thus the ticket sales argument you have is invalid.

Yes, it does work that way. I'm talking about trading THIS YEARS PICK, not next years.There is no superstar in this draft and everyone knows it. There is no lottery ticket to win. Why do you think the top 3 picks are all on the block? Rondo's star is established already. Teams would make $$$ from him regardless of where he plays. Most NBA fans are not knowledgable enough to think Rondo is not as effective with less talented players.

It doesn't matter. None of the top three teams in this years draft would trade their pick for Rondo. Cavs and Wiz is already obvious. And like I mentioned earlier the Magic are not some lowly team, they were elite in years past and are accumulating assets and picks to become strong again. But they are open to slowly rebuilding. Nor do I think that the C's front office considers anyone in this draft really worthy of trading Rondo for. Once healthy Rondos trade value increases and they could do better.

And it's not about what fans think about Rondo, it's about what the teams' front office thinks about him. Most know his game from head to toe and know he doesn't fit with their team as currently constructed. You think fans do trades (thank goodness they don't!)? No, front offices have player personnel management and scouting, and from what I hear a lot of them aren't too high on Rondo because of his attitude and personality. They don't think he would work well with their coach.

eta: and do we not forget that Rondo is injured. This significantly factors into why a team wouldn't give up a top three pick (even in a weak draft) for him as they are now more questions than answers about him. They could get a much better return for their top pick. Since salaries don't match, they also have to give up other things. Most teams are looking to be sellers only.

[hpantazo]

Unfortunately it is how it works. Many small market teams have used that strategy for decades, It's easier for them to get a big name player for a few years and sell some tickets than it is to build a contender. The majority of fans that will go to games in those markets are going to see star players, on either team, not because they think their team is going to win it all. 

You can't generally apply the same strategy that teams like Boston, LA, NY, Miami and Chicago use to build a team. Teams like the wizards, bobcats, NO, they may just want to sell enough tickets to keep from going under until they get lucky with a Lebron James from the draft. They know that there is no such player in this year's draft, so why not trade the pick for a more marketable name?

No it does not work that way, especially the situation we are describing here. Bobcats and Magic are no different than any other team that wants to land the next big star like what Wiggins or Parker are projected to be.  Especially the Magic who have gotten those big names in prior drafts (Shaq, Howard, even Webber though they traded him). They are holding on to those high draft picks like actual lottery win tickets. They have a chance to get a star who can develop into a very marketable player. As I already mentioned Rondo's star comes from playing in Boston, it will surely dwindle playing for a lackluster and very bad lottery team. Thus the ticket sales argument you have is invalid.

Yes, it does work that way. I'm talking about trading THIS YEARS PICK, not next years.There is no superstar in this draft and everyone knows it. There is no lottery ticket to win. Why do you think the top 3 picks are all on the block? Rondo's star is established already. Teams would make $$$ from him regardless of where he plays. Most NBA fans are not knowledgable enough to think Rondo is not as effective with less talented players.

It doesn't matter. None of the top three teams in this years draft would trade their pick for Rondo. Cavs and Wiz is already obvious. And like I mentioned earlier the Magic are not some lowly team, they were elite in years past and are accumulating assets and picks to become strong again. But they are open to slowly rebuilding. Nor do I think that the C's front office considers anyone in this draft really worthy of trading Rondo for. Once healthy Rondos trade value increases and they could do better.

And it's not about what fans think about Rondo, it's about what the teams' front office thinks about him. Most know his game from head to toe and know he doesn't fit with their team as currently constructed. You think fans do trades (thank goodness they don't!)? No, front offices have player personnel management and scouting, and from what I hear a lot of them aren't too high on Rondo because of his attitude and personality. They don't think he would work well with their coach.

I agree with some of your points, but not all front offices are run that way unfortunately. The celtics even had their own dark years where the front office was run with the goal of immediate ticket sales rather than building a better team. In that sense, it does matter what fans think, because when they hear "we traded for Rondo" the majority would say WOW, he's a superstar from a championship team, I'll go to a few games this year to see him. When they hear "we drafted Nerlens Noel, or whoever, they think "another guy I never heard of who may or may not do anything in the league. I hope this one turns out ok.

I believe some teams in the top 3 of this years draft would trade their pick for Rondo, and if Ainge does not see the next version of this team built around Rondo on a max deal, he may pull the trigger on it.

Yes, Rondo has a league-wide rep for his attitude issues. This does hurt his trade value. If a team is not contending though, I really don't think they care much about their coach as they would a marketable player. Heck, the Jazz fired the legendary coach Jerry Sloan for Deron Williams who then bailed on them anyway.

[KGs Knee]

Rondo is worth far more than any pick in this draft.  not even close

You think so?  I'd be happy to get Noel for him.

Trading Rondo for Noel would be an epic blunder.

Thankfully Danny is not that dumb (I think...hope?).

[dasani]

I agree with some of your points, but not all front offices are run that way unfortunately. The celtics even had their own dark years where the front office was run with the goal of immediate ticket sales rather than building a better team. In that sense, it does matter what fans think, because when they hear "we traded for Rondo" the majority would say WOW, he's a superstar from a championship team, I'll go to a few games this year to see him. When they hear "we drafted Nerlens Noel, or whoever, they think "another guy I never heard of who may or may not do anything in the league. I hope this one turns out ok.

I believe some teams in the top 3 of this years draft would trade their pick for Rondo, and if Ainge does not see the next version of this team built around Rondo on a max deal, he may pull the trigger on it.

Yes, Rondo has a league-wide rep for his attitude issues. This does hurt his trade value. If a team is not contending though, I really don't think they care much about their coach as they would a marketable player. Heck, the Jazz fired the legendary coach Jerry Sloan for Deron Williams who then bailed on them anyway.

The thing is with Rondo injured, none of the top three teams are going to really bite on that. Cavs may be the most willing to part, but they are wanting another big like Demarcus Cousins, not a pg, since, they you know already have a healthy and all-star caliber one. The Wizards also have no need for a pg and are looking for a vet small forward. That's why it makes no sense for them. The Magic are not currently looking to contend and may keep their pick because it allows them to be major players in next year's draft which is where they want to be. They are not looking to take on vets or injured players on contracts. In fact they are looking to shed salary now. There are teams that would trade for Rondo, but those teams do not have the top picks.

[hpantazo]

I agree with some of your points, but not all front offices are run that way unfortunately. The celtics even had their own dark years where the front office was run with the goal of immediate ticket sales rather than building a better team. In that sense, it does matter what fans think, because when they hear "we traded for Rondo" the majority would say WOW, he's a superstar from a championship team, I'll go to a few games this year to see him. When they hear "we drafted Nerlens Noel, or whoever, they think "another guy I never heard of who may or may not do anything in the league. I hope this one turns out ok.

I believe some teams in the top 3 of this years draft would trade their pick for Rondo, and if Ainge does not see the next version of this team built around Rondo on a max deal, he may pull the trigger on it.

Yes, Rondo has a league-wide rep for his attitude issues. This does hurt his trade value. If a team is not contending though, I really don't think they care much about their coach as they would a marketable player. Heck, the Jazz fired the legendary coach Jerry Sloan for Deron Williams who then bailed on them anyway.

The thing is with Rondo injured, none of the top three teams are going to really bite on that. Cavs may be the most willing to part, but they are wanting another big like Demarcus Cousins, not a pg, since, they you know already have a healthy and all-star caliber one. The Wizards also have no need for a pg and are looking for a vet small forward. That's why it makes no sense for them. The Magic are not currently looking to contend and may keep their pick because it allows them to be major players in next year's draft which is where they want to be. They are not looking to take on vets or injured players on contracts. In fact they are looking to shed salary now. There are teams that would trade for Rondo, but those teams do not have the top picks.

Yes, Rondo's ACL injury also hurts his trade value. I still think the top 3 teams in the draft would consider trading for him, mainly because there are no superstars in this draft and Noel is also coming off ACL surgery, but who knows? It doesn't have to be a direct trade for Rondo, it could be a 3 team deal where they get a player at a different position and Rondo goes elsewhere. This summer will be very unpredictable and there will be many opportunities for the celtics to go in any direction. I hope Ainge makes the right choices.

TP for making a good argument.

[dasani]

I agree with some of your points, but not all front offices are run that way unfortunately. The celtics even had their own dark years where the front office was run with the goal of immediate ticket sales rather than building a better team. In that sense, it does matter what fans think, because when they hear "we traded for Rondo" the majority would say WOW, he's a superstar from a championship team, I'll go to a few games this year to see him. When they hear "we drafted Nerlens Noel, or whoever, they think "another guy I never heard of who may or may not do anything in the league. I hope this one turns out ok.

I believe some teams in the top 3 of this years draft would trade their pick for Rondo, and if Ainge does not see the next version of this team built around Rondo on a max deal, he may pull the trigger on it.

Yes, Rondo has a league-wide rep for his attitude issues. This does hurt his trade value. If a team is not contending though, I really don't think they care much about their coach as they would a marketable player. Heck, the Jazz fired the legendary coach Jerry Sloan for Deron Williams who then bailed on them anyway.

The thing is with Rondo injured, none of the top three teams are going to really bite on that. Cavs may be the most willing to part, but they are wanting another big like Demarcus Cousins, not a pg, since, they you know already have a healthy and all-star caliber one. The Wizards also have no need for a pg and are looking for a vet small forward. That's why it makes no sense for them. The Magic are not currently looking to contend and may keep their pick because it allows them to be major players in next year's draft which is where they want to be. They are not looking to take on vets or injured players on contracts. In fact they are looking to shed salary now. There are teams that would trade for Rondo, but those teams do not have the top picks.

Yes, Rondo's ACL injury also hurts his trade value. I still think the top 3 teams in the draft would consider trading for him, mainly because there are no superstars in this draft and Noel is also coming off ACL surgery, but who knows? It doesn't have to be a direct trade for Rondo, it could be a 3 team deal where they get a player at a different position and Rondo goes elsewhere. This summer will be very unpredictable and there will be many opportunities for the celtics to go in any direction. I hope Ainge makes the right choices.

TP for making a good argument.

Yeah, you are right a third team could get involved. Those are sometimes complex, but can be done if the teams discuss this in length prior to draft night. The Cavs do want to start contending now and need someone who is ready to contribute and Noel is not that. So I definitely see them parting with that pick. I agree that this summer is unpredictable and anything could happen. I think that what Ainge does with Pierce's situation will signal what direction the Celtics are going in. I just hope for a speedy rebuild and not a slow and draining one. TP for your good argument too.