#2 pick now up for trade

[hpantazo]

he has attitude issues with his teammates, his coaches

Cos of Ray Allen?

Given the right deal, I'd trade Rondo. For a big like Favors I'd do it for sure.

Not even gonna bother defending Rondo against other PGs. KG likes Rondo, Pierce seems to like Rondo, they have chemistry, it's been working all along.

Not just because of Ray. He had, and still has issues with Doc that Rivers has referred to several times. They manage to work, but the issues have not fully gone away. He had issues with KG in the first two years, and issues with many other teammates throughout. Generally he has a bad personality. He's stubborn, he pouts, he yells at his teammates and coaches, and no one can doubt his issues with the refs. He has been suspended multiple times for attacking refs (throwing the ball at a ref, chest bumping a ref, and other occasions where I've seen him throw the ball at refs and try to intimidate them). That's not the mark of a leader.

[Smutzy#9]

1. Rondo scores less than Rose but takes way less shots.

and so? Rose is a better, and most importantly, more confident shooter than Rondo. He puts pressure on the other teams defense, gets to the line, finishes much better at the rim, and the big one....he creates more opportunities for his teammates because the defense can't slag off him. Rondo hurts the offense because opposing defenses play off him too much, he's afraid to drive, particularly in key moments of the games, because he doesn't trust his own free throw shooting.

If you want to see what a top tier scoring PG who can pass does for your playoff hopes, just look at Tony Parker.

2. If Rondo is flawed because he doesn't score as much as Rose, then Rose is flawed because he doesn't pass or rebound as well as Rose. 

see above. Opposing defenses back off Rondo and put pressure on other players, Rose, by being a big scoring threat, creates the opposite effect.



3. Why can Rose be the best player on a championship team but not Rondo?  Rondo has a ring and goes further in the playoffs than Rose every year.  Deng, Noah, Boozer have all been all-stars and are in their prime, it's not like he didn't have help. 

Let's be reasonable here. Rondo was not the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th best player on the 2008 championship team, that is a poor argument. Deng, Noah, and Boozer do not at all come close to Pierce, KG, and Ray close to their primes. Rondo's a great player, and he developed a lot since 2008, but he still has some major flaws that prevent him from being the best player on a title team.


4.  Rose is a horrible defender.  Rondo is SO much better as a defensive player.  It is not even close. 

Rose is by no means a terrible defender, and you cannot ignore the countless playoff games where Rondo has been torched by opposing PGs and has also cost the team for taking plays and entire games off on defense and gambling for steals waaayyy too much. Rondo CAN be an excellent defender imo, but he consistently fails to do it.


5.  A player may be "like" Rondo, that doesn't mean they're even close to being Rondo.  Rondo has gone head-to-head with Rose, Lebron, Kobe, Rose, Howard and generally come out on top. 

-Sure, he may not be close to being Rondo, but in 2-3 years it's possible he can be. Rondo has never matched up against Lebron, Kobe, or Howard in games, I'm not sure what you are trying to say there. His matchups with a rookie Rose were in Rose's favor.

6.  Rose won a popularity contest?  That's nice.  Do they give out championships for that?


Yes, how do you think Kobe, Lebron, and Wade got their rings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFH_qCJlD_8

[hpantazo]

1. Rondo scores less than Rose but takes way less shots.

and so? Rose is a better, and most importantly, more confident shooter than Rondo. He puts pressure on the other teams defense, gets to the line, finishes much better at the rim, and the big one....he creates more opportunities for his teammates because the defense can't slag off him. Rondo hurts the offense because opposing defenses play off him too much, he's afraid to drive, particularly in key moments of the games, because he doesn't trust his own free throw shooting.

If you want to see what a top tier scoring PG who can pass does for your playoff hopes, just look at Tony Parker.

2. If Rondo is flawed because he doesn't score as much as Rose, then Rose is flawed because he doesn't pass or rebound as well as Rose. 

see above. Opposing defenses back off Rondo and put pressure on other players, Rose, by being a big scoring threat, creates the opposite effect.



3. Why can Rose be the best player on a championship team but not Rondo?  Rondo has a ring and goes further in the playoffs than Rose every year.  Deng, Noah, Boozer have all been all-stars and are in their prime, it's not like he didn't have help. 

Let's be reasonable here. Rondo was not the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th best player on the 2008 championship team, that is a poor argument. Deng, Noah, and Boozer do not at all come close to Pierce, KG, and Ray close to their primes. Rondo's a great player, and he developed a lot since 2008, but he still has some major flaws that prevent him from being the best player on a title team.


4.  Rose is a horrible defender.  Rondo is SO much better as a defensive player.  It is not even close. 

Rose is by no means a terrible defender, and you cannot ignore the countless playoff games where Rondo has been torched by opposing PGs and has also cost the team for taking plays and entire games off on defense and gambling for steals waaayyy too much. Rondo CAN be an excellent defender imo, but he consistently fails to do it.


5.  A player may be "like" Rondo, that doesn't mean they're even close to being Rondo.  Rondo has gone head-to-head with Rose, Lebron, Kobe, Rose, Howard and generally come out on top. 

-Sure, he may not be close to being Rondo, but in 2-3 years it's possible he can be. Rondo has never matched up against Lebron, Kobe, or Howard in games, I'm not sure what you are trying to say there. His matchups with a rookie Rose were in Rose's favor.

6.  Rose won a popularity contest?  That's nice.  Do they give out championships for that?


Yes, how do you think Kobe, Lebron, and Wade got their rings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFH_qCJlD_8

Yea, defending a player on one or two possessions is very far from matching up against him and getting the best of him in a game. Not at all comparable.

[Vermont Green]

It is an interesting proposition to consider trading a high draft pick for an established player (or vice versa).  Draft picks have (or should have) upside but they also have risk.  Even the epic 2003 draft included Darko in the top 3 who ended up being a major bust.  What would the #2 pick in 2003 have been worth in a trade back then?

Most here have said they would never trade Rondo for the #2 this year.  I am not sure I would either.  You may end up trading Rondo for a bust or maybe a sleeper.  There is just too much risk, especially these days when the players in the draft are in general much younger and less proven.

I could see being for a trade built around Rondo and the #2 but other pieces would need to be involved to kind of dilute the risk of the draft pick.

[CelticConcourse]

Can we get all three top picks, for Pierce, Garnett, Rondo, Bass, Lee?

[Moranis]

Boston out - Rondo, Bass, Terry
Boston in - Gordon, Vasquez, Turkoglu

New Orleans out - Gordon, Vasquez
New Orleans in - Nelson, #2

Orlando out - Nelson, Turkoglu, #2
Orlando in - Rondo, Bass, Terry

Why for Boston.  Get a solid PG prospect for Rondo and a very talented though injury prone SG in Gordon.  Turk comes off the books a year before Bass and Terry so you clear long term salary.

Why for New Orleans.  Get out from under Gordon's contract, pick up a veteran PG, and add #2 to #6, where you can pick up 2 more quality young players to go along with Anderson, Davis, and Rivers.

Why for Orlando.  Get the PG you need badly for #2 as well as add some veterans for your current veterans.

I don't see the point for New Orleans. They aren't desperate to get out of Gordon's contract, they are interested in trading him because he's relatively valuable and doesn't fit into their long term plans. They aren't trying to just dump him.

true, but at #2 they will either get Noel or McLemore, which is a darn good start.  Nelson would provide a great deal of leadership from the PG position, something that young team needs badly.

[dasani]

let's see how Rose returns before acting like he is still top 5. His game was built on athleticism, so a major injury will really slow down his game. This is really the reason why he sat out a full year. So any debate regarding him is futile. Present and future is still up in the air for him. But back on topic, I doubt Wiz would trade their pick since they most likely get Otto Porter, and they really need a three, even if its to develop. I can see Magic trading for  #1 and they have the assets to do it.I don't think McLemore fits their team.

[syfy9]

I'm on the boat that wants the Celtics to trade for this pick ASAP.


Granted the Cavs take Noel, I think McLemore would be a near perfect fit next to Rondo going into the future.



Bradley + Green + 16th + future first for 2nd and Harris/Harkless?

[hpantazo]

Boston out - Rondo, Bass, Terry
Boston in - Gordon, Vasquez, Turkoglu

New Orleans out - Gordon, Vasquez
New Orleans in - Nelson, #2

Orlando out - Nelson, Turkoglu, #2
Orlando in - Rondo, Bass, Terry

Why for Boston.  Get a solid PG prospect for Rondo and a very talented though injury prone SG in Gordon.  Turk comes off the books a year before Bass and Terry so you clear long term salary.

Why for New Orleans.  Get out from under Gordon's contract, pick up a veteran PG, and add #2 to #6, where you can pick up 2 more quality young players to go along with Anderson, Davis, and Rivers.

Why for Orlando.  Get the PG you need badly for #2 as well as add some veterans for your current veterans.

I don't see the point for New Orleans. They aren't desperate to get out of Gordon's contract, they are interested in trading him because he's relatively valuable and doesn't fit into their long term plans. They aren't trying to just dump him.

true, but at #2 they will either get Noel or McLemore, which is a darn good start.  Nelson would provide a great deal of leadership from the PG position, something that young team needs badly.

Yea, #2 for Gordon is good return for them, including Vasquez is a bit too much though imo. He was great for them last year and is still young. If I where them, I'd put in a lesser player instead of Vasquez and say take it or leave it.

[dasani]

^^^those scenarios make no sense for all three teams involved. Magic is not looking to contend in the relatively near future, so that package makes no sense for them. They are building and accumulating assets. they have no need for vets. If Boston wants to be bad till 2017, I guess that makes some sense. Hornets do not need McLemore or Noel, they are looking to get better within the next to season, no need to develop guys when they can trade for a vet.

[Celtics18]

His matchups with a rookie Rose were in Rose's favor.

I'm just going to start with this one, because it's so easy to refute:

2009 Playoffs !st round:

Rajon Rondo

19.4  PPG, 9.3 RPG, 11.6 APG, 2.1 TOPG, 2.7 SPG,  .454 FG%

4/9 3s, 24/37 FTs



Derrick Rose:

19.7 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 6.4 APG, 5.0 TOPG, 0.6 SPG, .492 FG%

0/4 3s, 20/25 FTs

Celtics in 7. 

I don't see any way that you can claim that the matchup was in Rose's favor.  Rondo, hands down.

[dasani]

^^^Rose's PER was also a 13.3 in that postseason. Definitely not in his favor.

[CFAN38]

its a horrible draft

That's all realative. It's horrible for a team in the top 5  but there is a lot of late first round talent. From 10-35 you could make an argument for probably 25 different guys at each pick. We will see a lot of solid bench players coming from this draft. A lot of guys at the bass, lee type level.

[ThaPreacher]

Rose vs Rondo?

I thought this was a #2 pick now up for trade thread Yikes!

I was enjoying this thread until it became a Rose vs Rondo.
But riddle me this Batman,
Would you trade a player who when healthy, won't play-Rose
Or would you trade a player who wants to play when hurt-Rondo.

Seems to me that Rondo, while finicky is also more friskey,   Meow!

[PhoSita]

This is the thing that always gets me in these trade Rondo threads -- why would a team that's further away from being competitive than we are trade a top draft pick for Rondo?

Presumably, we'd be trading Rondo because we think he's too old for a long rebuild or we think he's not the kind of player you build around.

So why would a team like the Magic or Bobcats want him, then?

A team trading for Rondo would have to already have a young star in place who they think would go well with Rondo.  They'd have to believe they could become very competitive within 2-3 seasons.