How good would the C's front court be if they got Milsap/Jefferson and Dieng?

[rondohondo]

Let's say the c's can pull off a trade of

Bos sends: Bradley , Bass, Melo , china 3 for salary fill
Utah sends: Jefferson or Millsap

C's then draft Dieng with the #16 pick

PG: Rondo         / Vet min
SG: Lee           / Terry
SF: Green         / PP
PF: Millsap or KG / Sully
 c: KG or Big Al  / Dieng


Man, if we could pull that off, that is a tremendous front line ...

Thoughts?

[Geo123]

Let's say the c's can pull off a trade of

Bos sends: Bradley , Bass, Melo , china 3 for salary fill
Utah sends: Jefferson or Millsap

C's then draft Dieng with the #16 pick

PG: Rondo         / Vet min
SG: Lee           / Terry
SF: Green         / PP
PF: Millsap or KG / Sully
 c: KG or Big Al  / Dieng


Man, if we could pull that off, that is a tremendous front line ...

Thoughts?

And why would the Jazz do that?  Basically they'd be taking on 2 years of additional salary in Bass and Melo in order to get Bradley.  Plus most draft boards I see don't show Dieng still being around when we pick. 

[rondohondo]

Let's say the c's can pull off a trade of

Bos sends: Bradley , Bass, Melo , china 3 for salary fill
Utah sends: Jefferson or Millsap

C's then draft Dieng with the #16 pick

PG: Rondo         / Vet min
SG: Lee           / Terry
SF: Green         / PP
PF: Millsap or KG / Sully
 c: KG or Big Al  / Dieng


Man, if we could pull that off, that is a tremendous front line ...

Thoughts?

And why would the Jazz do that?  Basically they'd be taking on 2 years of additional salary in Bass and Melo in order to get Bradley.  Plus most draft boards I see don't show Dieng still being around when we pick.

Well they are going to lose Al or Millsap for nothing, Wouldn't they like a 2nd team all defense guard , a capable backup PF for Favors , and a project big on a cheap rookie salary?

Maybe we throw in a 2015 first round pick to sweeten the deal ?

[mmmmm]

Let's say the c's can pull off a trade of

Bos sends: Bradley , Bass, Melo , china 3 for salary fill
Utah sends: Jefferson or Millsap

C's then draft Dieng with the #16 pick

PG: Rondo         / Vet min
SG: Lee           / Terry
SF: Green         / PP
PF: Millsap or KG / Sully
 c: KG or Big Al  / Dieng


Man, if we could pull that off, that is a tremendous front line ...

Thoughts?

1) I don't think we can even DO that trade because we'd have to send out all those pieces just to match the amount of salary we likely would be bringing in with Al or Millsap ... BUT that would leave us still with the same salary level, which is already over the luxury tax apron, except that NOW we'd have at least 3 (and maybe 4) new roster spots to fill (to replace Bradley, Melo and one or two of the China boys).  The cap holds for those spots would put us even FURTHER over the apron.

2) I don't think we even WANT to do that trade.   Neither Jefferson or Millsap is worth giving away that much talent for.   Neither make us suddenly contenders in a 'run it back' scenario (especially if you just dumped Bradley's talent) and neither is at all a good piece for a 'tear it down and rebuild' plan.

[badshar]

How good would the C's team be if they got LeBron and Dwight Howard plus KG and Pierce back in their prime and Rondo as he is?

[kingtutts]

 I think you are highly overrating Dieng. 

[rondohondo]

I think you are highly overrating Dieng.

He can at least be a Ezeli type backup center. Go look at his scouting videos on Youtube, and look at the defense he is capable of playing. He would definitely help next year if drafted .

[rondohondo]

How good would the C's team be if they got LeBron and Dwight Howard plus KG and Pierce back in their prime and Rondo as he is?

so millsap/jefferson and Dieng is Lebron and Dwight Howard?

Yea, great comparison...

[hpantazo]

I think the trade can happen, but we would need to add a 1st rounder to the deal.

How good we are depends on who we get. Milsap I think fits better. Jefferson is a great post player, but he would bog down our offense and significantly hurt our defense. As for Dieng, I'm not sure he's worth using our pick on. I would do Bradley, Bass, china 3 and a pick for Milsap though. Bradley's "talent' is waaaaaayyyyyy overated on these boards.

[mmmmm]

I think the trade can happen, but we would need to add a 1st rounder to the deal.

How good we are depends on who we get. Milsap I think fits better. Jefferson is a great post player, but he would bog down our offense and significantly hurt our defense. As for Dieng, I'm not sure he's worth using our pick on. I would do Bradley, Bass, china 3 and a pick for Milsap though. Bradley's "talent' is waaaaaayyyyyy overated on these boards.

Bradley+Bass+China 3 + #16  .... for Millsap???

a) That's waaaaaaayyyyyy overating Millsap and
b) Is probably not really technically feasible given our current cap situation unless we do some _other_ major transaction first.

We are over the LT apron.  We can't add salary except via exception (and even then only via minimum contract or the lesser MLE).  A trade is not an exception. 

We can only bring back less salary than we send out in trade.  The above trade works for THAT rule provided Millsap signs for less than 12M ... BUT, it simultaneously creates several empty roster slots - each which will require a cap hold.   So you have to get Millsap to come here for 12M minus the cap holds for the resulting empty roster slots (which you will have to fill now with minimum players).   So that means convincing Millsap to come here for ~8M or less.

Millsap just made 8.6M this last year in the last year of his contract.   He's looking for a pay raise.

[Who]

We are over the LT apron.  We can't add salary except via exception (and even then only via minimum contract or the lesser MLE).  A trade is not an exception. 

Why can't the Celtics add salary?

Is this one of the changes in the new CBA? That they can't add salary to their payroll in a trade once they are over the luxury tax?

[Fafnir]

We are over the LT apron.  We can't add salary except via exception (and even then only via minimum contract or the lesser MLE).  A trade is not an exception. 

Why can't the Celtics add salary?

Is this one of the changes in the new CBA? That they can't add salary to their payroll in a trade once they are over the luxury tax?

Just as using the full MLE locks you in at the apron so does participating in a sign and trade to acquire a player.

In traditional trade scenario's I believe tax teams just have to have tigher salary matches than non-taxpaying teams.

[Who]

We are over the LT apron.  We can't add salary except via exception (and even then only via minimum contract or the lesser MLE).  A trade is not an exception. 

Why can't the Celtics add salary?

Is this one of the changes in the new CBA? That they can't add salary to their payroll in a trade once they are over the luxury tax?

Just as using the full MLE locks you in at the apron so does participating in a sign and trade to acquire a player.

In traditional trade scenario's I believe tax teams just have to have tigher salary matches than non-taxpaying teams.

That was for this past season though, right?

I thought it resets in the summer and Ainge can go over the apron once again if he wishes to do so. Or have I got that wrong?

And if Ainge goes over the apron by taking on salary in a trade or sign and trade, Ainge would lose the full MLE ($20mil 4 yrs) but still have the mini-MLE ($9mil 3 yrs) available to him. With the old 125% + $100k trade rules applying to the trade.

Do I have that right?

[Fafnir]

We are over the LT apron.  We can't add salary except via exception (and even then only via minimum contract or the lesser MLE).  A trade is not an exception. 

Why can't the Celtics add salary?

Is this one of the changes in the new CBA? That they can't add salary to their payroll in a trade once they are over the luxury tax?

Just as using the full MLE locks you in at the apron so does participating in a sign and trade to acquire a player.

In traditional trade scenario's I believe tax teams just have to have tigher salary matches than non-taxpaying teams.

That was for this past season though, right?

I thought it resets in the summer and Ainge can go over the apron once again if he wishes to do so. Or have I got that wrong?

Yes you're right.

•Starting in 2013-14, teams cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89) if their team salary is above the apron at the conclusion of the trade.

So it sounds like the sign and trade can't have us go above the apron, but subsequent moves can push us above after the sign and trade is done. I can't find any language in the Coon FAQ that says the apron is a hard cap after a sign and trade like it is after the full MLE is used.

If you do participate in a sign and trade you lose access to the taxpayer's MLE though.

Starting in 2013-14, it cannot be used if the team has received a player that season in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).

[Who]

We are over the LT apron.  We can't add salary except via exception (and even then only via minimum contract or the lesser MLE).  A trade is not an exception. 

Why can't the Celtics add salary?

Is this one of the changes in the new CBA? That they can't add salary to their payroll in a trade once they are over the luxury tax?

Just as using the full MLE locks you in at the apron so does participating in a sign and trade to acquire a player.

In traditional trade scenario's I believe tax teams just have to have tigher salary matches than non-taxpaying teams.

That was for this past season though, right?

I thought it resets in the summer and Ainge can go over the apron once again if he wishes to do so. Or have I got that wrong?

Yes you're right.

•Starting in 2013-14, teams cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89) if their team salary is above the apron at the conclusion of the trade.

So it sounds like the sign and trade can't have us go above the apron, but subsequent moves can push us above after the sign and trade is done. I can't find any language in the Coon FAQ that says the apron is a hard cap after a sign and trade like it is after the full MLE is used.

If you do participate in a sign and trade you lose access to the taxpayer's MLE though.

Starting in 2013-14, it cannot be used if the team has received a player that season in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 89).

Okay, I think I got it now. Thank you very much for your help. It is hard to keep track - and remember - all of these new CBA changes. 

So the Celtics can complete a sign and trade if they are not above the apron at the conclusion of the trade. Boston has something like $73 million on the books heading into next season not including the China guys. Add the first round pick at $1.75 million or so and Boston is over the apron if the cap stays steady and the apron remains at $74 million.

So realistically the Celtics would need to do a salary dump to free up enough cap space to make a sign and trade happen. Something like Courtney Lee to the Minnesota T'Wolves for a trade exception. Then they could take on a few million in a sign and trade. So add the removal of Courtney Lee to the cost of any sign and trade package.