Lebron and West FINED for Flopping in Game 4

[NocturnalRebel]

LeBron doesn't need to flop but yet that's what he's fined for. It doesn't mean much but I think it's about time tha league has fined him for flopping. And i'm glad they did. Flopping is part of what ruins tha game of basketball. My question is how did Shane Battier get away with his flops. He's spent more time on tha floor than he has standing.

I'm glad tha NBA has a anti-flopping rule but they haven't exercised it as much as they should have and it isn't strict enough. It shouldn't take up to 5 or more flops to hand out suspensions. Flopping should be a fine and a foul for tha defending player.

[fairweatherfan]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

[Boris Badenov]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

[CelticConcourse]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

People already complain about too much video replay, and how it slows the game down too much. No way they add more video replays, especially because no one wants to watch a 4-hour basketball game. Too boring.

[NocturnalRebel]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

People already complain about too much video replay, and how it slows the game down too much. No way they add more video replays, especially because no one wants to watch a 4-hour basketball game. Too boring.

Especially if tha Bobcats are playing.

[bdm860]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

Why do you think the NBAPA wouldn't go for it? 

If anything, they should be looking out more for the regular players, than for the superstars.

Like say the NBA fined a player 0.1% of their salary, some quick math based on salary:


Kobe's salary
 $28,000,000, fine $27,184

Most Older Superstars' salary
 $20,000,000, fine $19,417

Most Younger Superstars' salary
 $15,000,000, fine $14,563

Avg Salary
 $5,150,000, fine $5,000

Minimum salary, rookie
 $473,604, fine $460

Minimum salary, 10+ year vet
 $1,352,181, fine $1,313

And perhaps add in an escalating scale? (like an additional 0.1% for every violation).

Still not going to make much of a difference for the superstars, but it's a start.

Hasn't there some stories about some NFL practice squad players, getting fined like 20k, and they may not even make the team?  I think with situations like this, the Players Association would be concerned about the little guy, if this system lowers the potential fine for the majority of the league, why would they be against it?

Of course, I think suspension is the better answer, because then a player would lose out on 1/82 of his salary (right?).  That would be much bigger.  Though sitting star players isn't good for business...

[Boris Badenov]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

People already complain about too much video replay, and how it slows the game down too much. No way they add more video replays, especially because no one wants to watch a 4-hour basketball game. Too boring.

Yeah, but this is different, because during the break you get to watch the video of the flop over and over again, and dissect every pathetic frame. Just like we all did for hours yesterday!

Coming back to what someone else above said - if embarrassment is the goal, this would accomplish it in a way nothing else could.

[Eja117]

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS

LeBron and West were fined for their epic rendition of synchronized flopping that will go down in the annals of flopping history.

@KBergCBS: Also, West, LeBron James and Lance Stephenson have been fined $5,000 each for flopping in Game 4.

A dove was just released to the sky and all is right with the world..LOL.

There goes Lebron's whole stance about not flopping and not knowing how to do it.

Also, do you think the league would have fined Lebron if the flop didn't blow up on the web yesterday?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBxclfP56sg

What if I told you that everything you think you know about Lebron being fined is a lie?

[Boris Badenov]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

People already complain about too much video replay, and how it slows the game down too much. No way they add more video replays, especially because no one wants to watch a 4-hour basketball game. Too boring.

Yeah, but this is different, because during the break you get to watch the video of the flop over and over again, and dissect every pathetic frame. Just like we all did for hours yesterday!

Coming back to what someone else above said - if embarrassment is the goal, this would accomplish it in a way nothing else could.

Picture Lebron sitting on the sideline in game 4 as the flop gets replayed 30 consecutive times on the Conseco Fieldhouse Jumbo-tron, in front of 20,000 jeering Pacers fans.

And, the delay of game factor would probably be pretty small if this accomplished its intended purpose, which is to make flopping overall really uncommon.

[fairweatherfan]

Of course, I think suspension is the better answer, because then a player would lose out on 1/82 of his salary (right?).  That would be much bigger.  Though sitting star players isn't good for business...

I don't think it works quite the same in the playoffs - isn't it just a flat playoff share for everyone on the roster?  It also makes the salary % idea tough to implement, because I don't think you can retroactively fine a player a portion of their regular season pay.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but what do you do if it's both a flop and a foul?  A lot of times players are selling what is an actual violation.  Do you negate the original foul in addition to the flop penalty?  Also if there's actual contact it also makes it harder to determine if it's a real flop or if the guy was already off-balance or something. 

[Celtics4ever]

He also got a T for whining in Game 4.  I would've called but I don't have your number so I'm posting it here.

Amazing that is a first. I think, thanks.

About time the league treats him the same as others.   LeBron is a great players but to me no one has benefitted more from the star calls and no calls than he.   Not even Jordan, certainly not Bird or Magic.

I really don't watch once we are out of the picture.   I am a C's fan not a fan of the NBA.  My energies are towards the draft right now.

[Eja117]

Did the money get donated to the LBJ Foundation to support basketball players from Ohio?

[mmmmm]

Of course, I think suspension is the better answer, because then a player would lose out on 1/82 of his salary (right?).  That would be much bigger.  Though sitting star players isn't good for business...

I don't think it works quite the same in the playoffs - isn't it just a flat playoff share for everyone on the roster?  It also makes the salary % idea tough to implement, because I don't think you can retroactively fine a player a portion of their regular season pay.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but what do you do if it's both a flop and a foul?  A lot of times players are selling what is an actual violation.  Do you negate the original foul in addition to the flop penalty?  Also if there's actual contact it also makes it harder to determine if it's a real flop or if the guy was already off-balance or something.

According to the guidelines the NBA published about how they would enforce the 'no flopping' rules last year, whether an actual foul did or did not occur on the play is independent.  If the player gets fouled on the play then he got fouled and that should be called.   Where the 'no flopping' rule kicks in is that the player is not supposed to act out excessively with the clear purpose of influencing the referee to make a call.

So in theory, a foul could occur and get called AND a flop can also be called on the victim of the foul.

I'm okay with flops only being called after the fact (because I just don't think the in-game refs can deal competently with it), but I agree that the penalties have to be stiffer.

With nothing but small monetary fines and no suspension until you get to the 5th offense, in the context of the playoffs, players have zero incentive to NOT flop.   You want to win every game by whatever means and you will gladly risk paying a stupid fine if flopping might get you a call in a game.

It's pretty clear the Knicks flopped as a purposeful strategy in game 2 of the NYK-BOS series.  Why not?

I think that to make the anti-flopping rules have any teeth, that in the playoffs the fine for the first offense should be half a game check and a suspension for the 2nd offense.

[Boris Badenov]

Of course, I think suspension is the better answer, because then a player would lose out on 1/82 of his salary (right?).  That would be much bigger.  Though sitting star players isn't good for business...

I don't think it works quite the same in the playoffs - isn't it just a flat playoff share for everyone on the roster?  It also makes the salary % idea tough to implement, because I don't think you can retroactively fine a player a portion of their regular season pay.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but what do you do if it's both a flop and a foul?  A lot of times players are selling what is an actual violation.  Do you negate the original foul in addition to the flop penalty?  Also if there's actual contact it also makes it harder to determine if it's a real flop or if the guy was already off-balance or something.

I think you would only overturn if there was no actual foul. If there's a flop and a foul, the flop didn't change the call.

Of course there are grey areas. I think the implementation would have to be like in football, where you only overturn if there's clear evidence opposing the original call.

But my main point is that if you make the penalty something fairly severe in-game, instances of flopping will fall substantially. This is learned behavior, it can be unlearned.

[CelticConcourse]

I think the bigger penalty is being called out for flopping. 

It might be bigger but its still close to nothing. $5000-$50000 fines for people making $10-20 million a year is the equivalent to nothing, especially when the league is paying the players extra for playing in the playoffs. As for being labeled a flopper, what does Lebron or anyone else care about that? The man has already done an half hour television special to announce his free agent signing and had a pep rally to announce his arrival in Miami. He's had much, much more serious PR problems than being called a flopper.

Seriously, this whole anti flopping policy has zero teeth. Want to enforce a rule, give the punishment teeth and a bite. The NBA has more serious penalties for sitting players who they expect to play on national TV, for making hand signs, and tapping a ref during a timeout while telling him a joke than they do for flopping and ruining the game.

What's your "bite" look like, then?  I mentioned suspensions for repeat offenders - the league already has that policy but I'd move it from a 5th offense to a 3rd. 

Money - real money - or playing time are notoriously the only sure ways to motivate players, so beyond making the fine a % of salary, which the NBAPA would never agree to, suspension seems like the only way to do it.

If it's too hard to make the flop call on the fly, could you handle it via replay like a challenge in football? After the call, the offensive team's coach can throw the red flag. If so, the refs review the play. If it's deemed a flop, the foul is reversed and the non-flopping team gets two free throws plus the ball.

People already complain about too much video replay, and how it slows the game down too much. No way they add more video replays, especially because no one wants to watch a 4-hour basketball game. Too boring.

Yeah, but this is different, because during the break you get to watch the video of the flop over and over again, and dissect every pathetic frame. Just like we all did for hours yesterday!

Coming back to what someone else above said - if embarrassment is the goal, this would accomplish it in a way nothing else could.

Yeah, but you and I are not the common fan. The average fan doesn't pore through hours and hours of NBA film, (s)he just watches a game and moves on with his/her life.