T Will Having Minor Surgery

[nickagneta]

I think you are crossing a fairly disgusting line there kgainez

No doubt.

Labeling others as racists / as being prejudiced (especially without any proof) would pretty clearly be against our rules.

didn't throw out any labels
just said there are undertones of stuff
more than one thing

i just think it's kinda crazy how we can be so judgemental about someone's personal life and situations when we know nothing about it. as far as t-will, i know many women who have cried wolf in domestic violence situations. i know many ppl who end up in the wrong place at the wrong times and i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

all i'm saying.
but no, let's laugh at this guy.
cuz of reasons.

1. Yeah you didn't throw out any labels you just stated that people were joking about black players and wondered if T Will was white what the reaction would be. That's like claiming you didn't start a fire, you just lit a match and threw it on some spilled gasoline.

2. The number of women falsely claiming DV is very small. Filing a false claim of DV is against the law and that will be prosecuted. For that reason, the number is tiny.

you guys just love statistics, dont you?
I guess you missed the point that said >I KNEW<

Didn't miss it...I dismissed it. I happen to be married to a Domestic Violence Advocate who has been doing it for over a decade. She does it in the inner city, not the burbs. If you know women that have falsely claimed DV then you are an aberration because it doesn't happen a lot. Now in divorce situations you might see some women making false claims to get more out of the dad, but very few divorce lawyers are going to give credence to that or bring it up in the divorce without some sort of police report confirming the incident.

[sed522002]

Here is what I know about domestic violence episodes.

1. Its pretty much a he said she said thing unless there are marks left on a person or witnesses.
2. A large portion of DV victims never report the crime
3. Another large portion of these crimes have the charges dropped because the victim won't press charges
4. A whole lot of law enforcement don't see DV as a crime and won't do much about these episodes.
5. This was definitely a DV situation.

Just because charges are not brought up against TWill doesn't mean he didn't do it, especially when it comes to DV. What is known is he brandished a gun during an argument with his ex/wife/girlfriend in front of his son. That's bad judgment and its not the first time his bad judgment and personal issues has effected his chances to make it in the league.

He is a marginal NBA player at the very best. I will give 2nd chances to guys who might screw up once or twice but habitual knuckleheads with non-guaranteed contracts, them I would trade in a heartbeat.

I agree on that, but I want to hear the full story. Because in a statement that the mother made SHE approached him and was kicking his car for him to get out because he supposedly said something bad about one of her other kids. When he wouldn't get out the car she got angry. So it's more to this story than just her being a victim. Especially if she had her boyfriend approach the car as well.

So I guess leaving the area or driving away wasn't an option then, huh? The only option was to get out of the car and pull out a gun in a threatening manner?

I don't know all his options and neither do you. Yes, he should have done things differently. But we weren't there and I'll leave it at that.

[sed522002]

I think you are crossing a fairly disgusting line there kgainez

No doubt.

Labeling others as racists / as being prejudiced (especially without any proof) would pretty clearly be against our rules.

didn't throw out any labels
just said there are undertones of stuff
more than one thing

i just think it's kinda crazy how we can be so judgemental about someone's personal life and situations when we know nothing about it. as far as t-will, i know many women who have cried wolf in domestic violence situations. i know many ppl who end up in the wrong place at the wrong times and i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

all i'm saying.
but no, let's laugh at this guy.
cuz of reasons.

1. Yeah you didn't throw out any labels you just stated that people were joking about black players and wondered if T Will was white what the reaction would be. That's like claiming you didn't start a fire, you just lit a match and threw it on some spilled gasoline.

2. The number of women falsely claiming DV is very small. Filing a false claim of DV is against the law and that will be prosecuted. For that reason, the number is tiny.

you guys just love statistics, dont you?
I guess you missed the point that said >I KNEW<

Didn't miss it...I dismissed it. I happen to be married to a Domestic Violence Advocate who has been doing it for over a decade. She does it in the inner city, not the burbs. If you know women that have falsely claimed DV then you are an aberration because it doesn't happen a lot. Now in divorce situations you might see some women making false claims to get more out of the dad, but very few divorce lawyers are going to give credence to that or bring it up in the divorce without some sort of police report confirming the incident.

She does it in the inner city, not the burbs

I'm just curious why that was a point made?

[nickagneta]

... i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

Even going by Williams' own words, he did the wrong thing.

As for his career, I hope his surgery was successful, and that he enjoys another successful season in the Chinese Basketball Association.

I'm going to get some comic relief when he shows up on the roster this upcoming season.

So the fact that Ainge just last year signed a knucklehead like Sean Williams to a non-guaranteed contract and traded him away as trade filler doesn't make you a little less certain that TWill will still be here next year? Last year this team was desperate for bits and Sean Williams was traded for cap savings for Houston and so the Cs could get Courtney Lee.

Ainge is a creature of habit. He has shown little patience with knuckleheads. He has signed late year fringe players to non-guaranteed contracts and traded them. He now has a knucklehead on his team with a non-guaranteed contract and no room to sign free agents without sending the team well into the luxury tax.

Williams is gone my man. Writing is on the wall.

[sed522002]

... i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

Even going by Williams' own words, he did the wrong thing.

As for his career, I hope his surgery was successful, and that he enjoys another successful season in the Chinese Basketball Association.

A lot of people took the judgmental pill today I see 

[nickagneta]

I think you are crossing a fairly disgusting line there kgainez

No doubt.

Labeling others as racists / as being prejudiced (especially without any proof) would pretty clearly be against our rules.

didn't throw out any labels
just said there are undertones of stuff
more than one thing

i just think it's kinda crazy how we can be so judgemental about someone's personal life and situations when we know nothing about it. as far as t-will, i know many women who have cried wolf in domestic violence situations. i know many ppl who end up in the wrong place at the wrong times and i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

all i'm saying.
but no, let's laugh at this guy.
cuz of reasons.

1. Yeah you didn't throw out any labels you just stated that people were joking about black players and wondered if T Will was white what the reaction would be. That's like claiming you didn't start a fire, you just lit a match and threw it on some spilled gasoline.

2. The number of women falsely claiming DV is very small. Filing a false claim of DV is against the law and that will be prosecuted. For that reason, the number is tiny.

you guys just love statistics, dont you?
I guess you missed the point that said >I KNEW<

Didn't miss it...I dismissed it. I happen to be married to a Domestic Violence Advocate who has been doing it for over a decade. She does it in the inner city, not the burbs. If you know women that have falsely claimed DV then you are an aberration because it doesn't happen a lot. Now in divorce situations you might see some women making false claims to get more out of the dad, but very few divorce lawyers are going to give credence to that or bring it up in the divorce without some sort of police report confirming the incident.

She does it in the inner city, not the burbs

I'm just curious why that was a point made?

Volume of cases. DV is more prevalent in poorer urban areas, especially those with large foreign groups living in those areas.

[Roy H.]

... i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

Even going by Williams' own words, he did the wrong thing.

As for his career, I hope his surgery was successful, and that he enjoys another successful season in the Chinese Basketball Association.

A lot of people took the judgmental pill today I see 

What's wrong with being judgmental?  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to misconduct?

Williams got out of his vehicle with a gun at his side, in front of his 10 year old child.

That's wrong under just about any circumstances I can think of.  If Williams felt "threatened", he should have driven away, rather than drawing a weapon and getting out of his car.

[nickagneta]

Here is what I know about domestic violence episodes.

1. Its pretty much a he said she said thing unless there are marks left on a person or witnesses.
2. A large portion of DV victims never report the crime
3. Another large portion of these crimes have the charges dropped because the victim won't press charges
4. A whole lot of law enforcement don't see DV as a crime and won't do much about these episodes.
5. This was definitely a DV situation.

Just because charges are not brought up against TWill doesn't mean he didn't do it, especially when it comes to DV. What is known is he brandished a gun during an argument with his ex/wife/girlfriend in front of his son. That's bad judgment and its not the first time his bad judgment and personal issues has effected his chances to make it in the league.

He is a marginal NBA player at the very best. I will give 2nd chances to guys who might screw up once or twice but habitual knuckleheads with non-guaranteed contracts, them I would trade in a heartbeat.

I agree on that, but I want to hear the full story. Because in a statement that the mother made SHE approached him and was kicking his car for him to get out because he supposedly said something bad about one of her other kids. When he wouldn't get out the car she got angry. So it's more to this story than just her being a victim. Especially if she had her boyfriend approach the car as well.

So I guess leaving the area or driving away wasn't an option then, huh? The only option was to get out of the car and pull out a gun in a threatening manner?

I don't know all his options and neither do you. Yes, he should have done things differently. But we weren't there and I'll leave it at that.

One of his options was most definitely to leave. I know that. He didn't. So defend him with the blind eye defense all you want. Its not a very good defense in this particular circumstance because of the witnesses involved.

[NocturnalRebel]

smh. i hate threads like this because there are serious undertones of....stuff

when it comes to jordan crawford, t-will, nate rob, delonte, DMC, big baby, you all say some pretty...umm...opinionated stuff.

i sure would like to see the tone of a thread like this if shav, or greg steimsa or someone find themselves in an unfortunate situation

I think you are crossing a fairly disgusting line there kgainez if your insinuation is that these comments are racist based.

I agree with kgainez on tha dislike for threads like these. While I don't think he's necessarily saying tha comments here are coming from a racist standpoint, he's not being naive to tha fact that it may because of tha different tones when it comes to players like TWill vs players opposite of him.

I don't understand tha hate for TWill here. None of us here personally know him and I don't rock with attacking him as a human being and a father. That's out of bounds for me. I hate what tha OP's thread has turned to.

[sed522002]

... i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

Even going by Williams' own words, he did the wrong thing.

As for his career, I hope his surgery was successful, and that he enjoys another successful season in the Chinese Basketball Association.

A lot of people took the judgmental pill today I see 

What's wrong with being judgmental?  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to misconduct?

Williams got out of his vehicle with a gun at his side, in front of his 10 year old child.

That's wrong under just about any circumstances I can think of.  If Williams felt "threatened", he should have driven away, rather than drawing a weapon and getting out of his car.

There's a difference in being concerned about the situation that we don't know the full details to and trying to act like you know the man's life story and intent. You can't be judgmental about a man's life that you know nothing about.

[Roy H.]

If you know women that have falsely claimed DV then you are an aberration because it doesn't happen a lot. Now in divorce situations you might see some women making false claims to get more out of the dad, but very few divorce lawyers are going to give credence to that or bring it up in the divorce without some sort of police report confirming the incident.

From my perspective, it probably depends on what the local laws are.

Up here in Maine, I do the majority of in-custody arraignments for my city.  I'd say somewhere between 10% - 20% of domestic violence incidents are either fabricated or exaggerated.  The easiest way to get a leg up in a custody or divorce case is to file a case for DV.  Similarly, it's an easy way to avoid getting thrown out of your boyfriend or girlfriend's house in a breakup.

Case in point:  Last week, a guy got arrested for domestic violence.  The facts:  he calls the police to say his girlfriend is on drugs and belligerent.  She's at his home, and won't leave.  She's got a criminal record, and is on probation.  He's got no record.  The police show up.  He admits to grabbing her by the elbow and trying to escort her out of his home.  She admits to punching him in the face as retaliation.  She doesn't live there, and has no legal right to stay on the premises after he asks her to leave.  There's no allegation of physical contact by him other than grabbing her by the elbow and trying to walk her out the door.

Guess who got charged with domestic violence?  Hint:  It wasn't the person who was trespassing, on drugs, on probation, and who punched the guy in the face.

I could give you probably two dozen stories that are less striking, but still show very poor judgment on the part of the police and prosecution in terms of bringing charges. 

All that said, the number of actual perpetrators of DV is much, much higher than the number of false accusers.  Even if only 80% to 90% of DV charges are legit in my jurisdiction, I'd guess that there are many, many more cases that aren't reported.

Also, of course, this incident isn't made up out of whole cloth.  There are witnesses, and Williams admits to pulling a gun and leaving his vehicle.

[sed522002]

smh. i hate threads like this because there are serious undertones of....stuff

when it comes to jordan crawford, t-will, nate rob, delonte, DMC, big baby, you all say some pretty...umm...opinionated stuff.

i sure would like to see the tone of a thread like this if shav, or greg steimsa or someone find themselves in an unfortunate situation

I think you are crossing a fairly disgusting line there kgainez if your insinuation is that these comments are racist based.

I agree with kgainez on tha dislike for threads like these. While I don't think he's necessarily saying tha comments here are coming from a racist standpoint, he's not being naive to tha fact that it may because of tha different tones when it comes to players like TWill vs players opposite of him.

I don't understand tha hate for TWill here. None of us here personally know him and I don't rock with attacking him as a human being and a father. That's out of bounds for me. I hate what tha OP's thread has turned to.

Thank You! I don't understand how a thread about him having surgery turned into an attack on him as a human. People on here get beside themselves sometimes. Just keep it at basketball because we don't know any of these players on a personal level.

[Roy H.]

... i know people who are genuinely uninvolved in things we THINK they are.

Even going by Williams' own words, he did the wrong thing.

As for his career, I hope his surgery was successful, and that he enjoys another successful season in the Chinese Basketball Association.

A lot of people took the judgmental pill today I see 

What's wrong with being judgmental?  Are we supposed to turn a blind eye to misconduct?

Williams got out of his vehicle with a gun at his side, in front of his 10 year old child.

That's wrong under just about any circumstances I can think of.  If Williams felt "threatened", he should have driven away, rather than drawing a weapon and getting out of his car.

There's a difference in being concerned about the situation that we don't know the full details to and trying to act like you know the man's life story and intent. You can't be judgmental about a man's life that you know nothing about.

Sure I can.  Stepping out of your vehicle and unholstering a gun in front of your 10 year old, while confronting that child's mother, is wrong.  I'm fine with judging that type of conduct.

It sounds like the mother of Williams' child acted like a piece of trash, too.  I'm fine judging her conduct, as well.

[sed522002]

Here is what I know about domestic violence episodes.

1. Its pretty much a he said she said thing unless there are marks left on a person or witnesses.
2. A large portion of DV victims never report the crime
3. Another large portion of these crimes have the charges dropped because the victim won't press charges
4. A whole lot of law enforcement don't see DV as a crime and won't do much about these episodes.
5. This was definitely a DV situation.

Just because charges are not brought up against TWill doesn't mean he didn't do it, especially when it comes to DV. What is known is he brandished a gun during an argument with his ex/wife/girlfriend in front of his son. That's bad judgment and its not the first time his bad judgment and personal issues has effected his chances to make it in the league.

He is a marginal NBA player at the very best. I will give 2nd chances to guys who might screw up once or twice but habitual knuckleheads with non-guaranteed contracts, them I would trade in a heartbeat.

I agree on that, but I want to hear the full story. Because in a statement that the mother made SHE approached him and was kicking his car for him to get out because he supposedly said something bad about one of her other kids. When he wouldn't get out the car she got angry. So it's more to this story than just her being a victim. Especially if she had her boyfriend approach the car as well.

So I guess leaving the area or driving away wasn't an option then, huh? The only option was to get out of the car and pull out a gun in a threatening manner?

I don't know all his options and neither do you. Yes, he should have done things differently. But we weren't there and I'll leave it at that.

One of his options was most definitely to leave. I know that. He didn't. So defend him with the blind eye defense all you want. Its not a very good defense in this particular circumstance because of the witnesses involved.

I'm not defending what he did. He was wrong and he admits it. I'm defending the fact that people on here are acting like they know him on a personal level to judge him as a human and as a father. I just like to have the specifics before I go on a tangent about a man's character.

[Roy H.]

I don't understand tha hate for TWill here. None of us here personally know him and I don't rock with attacking him as a human being and a father. That's out of bounds for me. I hate what tha OP's thread has turned to.

As somebody who deals with the aftermath of stuff like this on a daily basis -- through the criminal justice system, through child protective services, and through custody disputes -- I have no problem judging the guy's conduct.  What he did -- pulling a gun on somebody in front of his child -- has very damaging effects on children.

I'm more concerned by the people who don't have a problem with that type of conduct.