Do you like Doc's "no hero ball" philosophy?

[LooseCannon]

On the surface, it seems like part of the basis for a team-oriented style of play, but I think it affects how Doc Rivers hands out playing time in a way that earns the scorn of some fans.

Unless you are almost as good of a scorer as Paul Pierce, having a tendency to be a chucker will limit how much you are allowed to contribute to the team.  If Doc is coaching, I don't think you can shoot your way into meaningful playing time by making garbage time buckets.  Scoring ten points in the final five minutes of a blowout won't get you more minutes. 

This makes Danny Ainge's off-season quests to find instant offense off the bench a misallocation of resources.  While some chuckers have their uses, they will be less valuable in the Celtics system.

As long as Doc is the coach, I think the Celtics should be looking to acquire players who can score efficiently but need to be encouraged to look for their offense than instead of players who need to be taught to take fewer shots with smarter shot selection.

[CelticConcourse]

Uhh....Leandro Barbosa? Jordan Crawford? Who's being limited?

[LooseCannon]

Uhh....Leandro Barbosa? Jordan Crawford? Who's being limited?

Barbosa could at least hit a three at a high percentage.  I have serious doubts about Jordan Crawford long-term future as a Celtic.

I think that replacing Bradley (if it were possible) with a 15-20 ppg chucker who doesn't play defense would be a mistake.

[Celtics4ever]

It's talk largely, how many times did a guy go one on one at the end of a game only to shoot a jumper.   That is the epitome of hero ball.

[CelticConcourse]

Uhh....Leandro Barbosa? Jordan Crawford? Who's being limited?

Barbosa could at least hit a three at a high percentage.  I have serious doubts about Jordan Crawford long-term future as a Celtic.

I think that replacing Bradley (if it were possible) with a 15-20 ppg chucker who doesn't play defense would be a mistake.

Yeah but I never heard Doc say to limit either. Quite the contrary, iirc.

[syfy9]

Uhh....Leandro Barbosa? Jordan Crawford? Who's being limited?

                           
Barbosa could at least hit a three at a high percentage.  I have serious doubts about Jordan Crawford long-term future as a Celtic.

Barbosa wasn't in the game to shoot 3s - he was in the game to drive and create instant offense.

Your doubts about Crawford are fair, but you still can't argue the fact that he played a legitimate amount of minutes under Doc.

[CelticConcourse]

I feel like our team needs a player who thinks he's better than Michael Jordan. Doesn't every?

[The Rondo Show]

I always love how he preaches this no hero ball system, yet every big possession is a Pierce iso that works maybe 1/5 or less of the time.

[thirstyboots18]

As long as Doc is the coach, I think the Celtics should be looking to acquire players who can score efficiently but need to be encouraged to look for their offense than instead of players who need to be taught to take fewer shots with smarter shot selection.

Good point.

[LooseCannon]

I always love how he preaches this no hero ball system, yet every big possession is a Pierce iso that works maybe 1/5 or less of the time.

Pierce is the exception.  No hero ball unless you're an actual hero.

[PhoSita]

Yes.  The Celtics don't have anybody who is a talented enough 1 on 1 scorer to go with hero ball for more than the occasional play.  That includes Paul Pierce and Jeff Green.

Even the teams with elite 1-on-1 talents like Harden, Durant, LeBron, Kobe etc are always better when they pass the ball around anyways.

[CelticG1]

I always love how he preaches this no hero ball system, yet every big possession is a Pierce iso that works maybe 1/5 or less of the time.

Pierce is the exception.  No hero ball unless you're an actual hero.

Plus every big possession being a Pierce ISO is blatantly false.

[nickagneta]

Doc Rivers plays players, especially off the bench, that play defense. Want to be able to shoot a lot and get plenty of playing time with Doc Rivers? Play defense his way in his system as well as you can.

But the problem is most chuckers do not play defense. So players like Crawford, Nate Robinson, Leandro Barbosa, Stephon Marbury, etc. are NOT going to have a long stint here under Doc. And they haven't.

I don't think Doc has a problem with people who shoot a lot(see Pierce and Allen) he just wants them playing winning defense and hitting the shots within the system.When Doc has complained about "hero ball" it has been when players forego the offensive plays and system, shoot the ball with tons of time on the clock from an area the player doesn't usually shoot from and/or goes iso without the iso being called for.

And when he has said it, I have to agree, I have seen what he is talking about.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

What "no hero ball" philosophy? I'm being dead serious. Doc allows PP to keep shooting NO MATTER WHAT, same for KG, and he let's RR do w/e he wants to. Then don't get me started on the hero ball end of quarters and games. He also wanted Crawford to shoot all the time and same for LeBo. That's why we need a good offensive coach b/c our offense is a mess... I wonder sometimes if we actually run an offense.

Now, If you said he has "no hero ball" on defense then I'd agree, he is big on team defense.

[nickagneta]

What "no hero ball" philosophy? I'm being dead serious. Doc allows PP to keep shooting NO MATTER WHAT, same for KG, and he let's RR do w/e he wants to. Then don't get me started on the hero ball end of quarters and games. He also wanted Crawford to shoot all the time and same for LeBo. That's why we need a good offensive coach b/c our offense is a mess... I wonder sometimes if we actually run an offense.

Now, If you said he has "no hero ball" on defense then I'd agree, he is big on team defense.

Want to hear something funny, ImShak. About 6-7 years ago until about 2010, most people complaining about Doc on this site said he was an awful defensive coach who could only coach offensive ball. Now here you are alling Doc a defensive coach without a clue as to how to run an offense.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the system Doc runs is pretty much what he ran 6-8 years ago but the players went from good offensively and horrible defensively(pre Big 3), to dominant defensively(2008-2010) and okay offensively to awful offensively and just very good  to great defensively(2011 to present).

I think what we have seen on the court from the team over the years has much much less to do with Doc's coaching and almost everything to do with the healthy players he was given to play.