KG or PP who is more valuable to Celtics

[Ogaju]

it seems the consensus here is that if we have to move either one it will be PP. I don't understand why we pick KG over PP. Is it because we lack size? It definitely cannot be because of age or health.

[LarBrd33]

 

It's hard to find much fault with Garnett's season. Each time you desire to nitpick, you simply look at his influence on the team as a whole and it seems irrelevant. Case in point: The Celtics were minus-130 in the 1,946 minutes Garnett was on the bench this season, but plus-112 in his 2,022 minutes of court time. Dig deeper and Boston's defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions) was a staggering 104.6 with Garnett on the bench and a minuscule 96.2 when he was on the floor. Yes, even at an advanced age, Garnett remains so vital to this team and its success, particularly on the defensive end. Like fellow veteran Paul Pierce, Garnett can no longer carry this team on his own, but no player's efforts are as important as Garnett.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705058/report-card-kevin-garnett-4

Beyond that, it's the fact that Pierce only has 5 mil guaranteed of his contract and could be valuable to a team as a semi-expiring contract.  KG isn't going anywhere.  We either keep him or he retires.

Frankly, they are both by far the most important players on this team (and that includes Rondo, who I love dearly... but his impact is overrated) ...   If we lose KG and pIerce, this team is a sure-fire lotto team.

Pierce is scheduled to make $15.3 million in the final year of a four-year extension inked after the 2009-10 season. The deal is only $5 million guaranteed and Boston has its amnesty clause available, which should make the team think hard about its direction moving forward. During an appearance on WEEI on Thursday, Ainge noted about Pierce, "There's a lot that will go into [deciding to bring back Pierce], but it hasn't even started yet. We have until June 30 to make any decision. Listen, Paul's been one of the greatest Celtics of all time and that will play a part in it. We love what he's done for us, but ultimately we have to do what we think is the best for us from this point forward and I think that Paul still has a lot of basketball left in him." The question is whether that basketball will be played in Boston. Those in a rush to run Pierce out of town after a lackluster postseason will be yearning for his all-around efforts once he's gone. To hammer that home: Boston was plus-123 overall in plus/minus this season with him on the floor and minus-141 when he was on the bench. Despite his personal struggles, Boston's offense was six points better per 100 possessions with him on the floor (offensive rating of 103.1) than when he was not (97.2). An extended offseason should be good for Pierce, who said he battled a pinched nerve in his neck for much of the 2012-13 season.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705009/report-card-paul-pierce-4

[hpantazo]

KG by far. He literally is our defense. When he goes out we can't stop anyone, and we have no replacement for him and very slim chances of getting anyone that could replace him to some extent.

Pierce is hard to let go for sentimental value, but he is much more replaceable. Green has already made a case to take the starting SF spot. We could lose Pierce and do as well as we did this year, but if we lose KG we are a lottery team.

[LarBrd33]

KG by far. He literally is our defense. When he goes out we can't stop anyone, and we have no replacement for him and very slim chances of getting anyone that could replace him to some extent.

Pierce is hard to let go for sentimental value, but he is much more replaceable. Green has already made a case to take the starting SF spot. We could lose Pierce and do as well as we did this year, but if we lose KG we are a lottery team.

Actually, if we lose either of them we are probably headed towards the lottery.  They both carry this team... KG on defense and Pierce on offense.

Rondo's impact on the offense is severely overrated:

Nothing spoke more to Rondo's value than the way the team struggled without him, particularly offensively in the playoffs. But the stats show a team that was still stagnant even with him. The Celtics owned an offensive rating -- points per 100 possessions -- of 99.2 with Rondo on the court and that number actually jumped up three points without him. Rondo was minus-57 in plus/minus for the season, while the Celtics were plus-39 without him. What gives? Rondo didn't have a particularly efficient offensive season in his 38 games. While his mid-range shooting blossomed and his field-goal percentage rebounded from a poor 2011-12 campaign, Rondo still struggled to generate consistent offense. According to Synergy Sports data, Rondo averaged 0.796 points per play, ranking in just the 23rd percentile among all league players (an uptick in turnovers played a large part in that diminished number as Rondo's turnover ratio was the highest since his rookie season). Maybe most concerning was Rondo's transition numbers, where he averaged just 0.864 points per play and ranked in the 11th percentile (as leader of the break, he has to be better at finishing in those situations). Defensively, Rondo's Synergy numbers were much glossier (0.777 points per play, 86th percentile), but in the same way his offense was better than the stats might suggest, his defense was worse than the numbers tell. Rondo allowed too much dribble penetration and clearly missed Avery Bradley for the first 30 games of the season (while Bradley rehabbed from double shoulder surgery). The bottom line is that the Celtics need more from Rondo if he's going to be their centerpiece player and it will be interesting to see what he gleaned from a half-season on the sidelines.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4705098/report-card-rajon-rondo-4

If we lose Pierce, our offense probably goes in the dumps.  If we lose KG, our defense will be horrible.  The thing is, KG will not agree to a trade... and Pierce probably would.  So the idea of trading KG is a non-starter.  If Boston was close to contending (it's not), we'd probably hang onto them... but we are in the midst of mediocrity and it's believed that Danny is shifting towards asset-acquisitions and cash-saving moves so we lay the groundwork for a rebuild... which probably involves trading Pierce for some unimpressive asset or cutting him for the money saving.

[Kane3387]

They're probably even.

[LB3533]

We got basically T-Wolves KG rebounding, but because we lost PP efficient offense...we lost to the Knicks in 6.

I think for a team that lacks offensive prowess, PP is more valuable.

[LooseCannon]

it seems the consensus here is that if we have to move either one it will be PP. I don't understand why we pick KG over PP. Is it because we lack size? It definitely cannot be because of age or health.

It's because of KG's no-trade clause.

[Celtics4ever]

KG is more valuable.

[pearljammer10]

Two years ago I probably would have said KG. at this point is say they are fairly even. KGs impact on the floor defensively is crazy but he can't sustain the minutes he needs in order to help the team the most.

[slamtheking]

Rondo's impact on the offense is severely overrated:

yes, because we were SOOOOOO efficient without a real PG in the playoffs   

I just scratch my head at the mentality that this team didn't miss Rondo.  unreal

[LarBrd33]

Rondo's impact on the offense is severely overrated:

yes, because we were SOOOOOO efficient without a real PG in the playoffs   

I just scratch my head at the mentality that this team didn't miss Rondo.  unreal

Meh.  Did you read the quote after it?

Our offense was bad either way.

[hpantazo]

Rondo's impact on the offense is severely overrated:

yes, because we were SOOOOOO efficient without a real PG in the playoffs   

I just scratch my head at the mentality that this team didn't miss Rondo.  unreal

Meh.  Did you read the quote after it?

Our offense was bad either way.

Our offense was much, much worse without Rondo

[Sketch5]

Thats a tough one, because they bring different things to the floor.

I think KG edges out just a hair. He's the anchor on D, and emotional leader on and off the floor. He's a great teacher and keeps the young guns confident if they deserve it.

 PP had been slitly above KG the last few years because of his clutch game, being able to win games in the 4th. But last year he just didn't have it like he did in the past.

This years play offs when KG got to play a full game he really stepped up his game, I mean he was pulling 15-18 boards a game, and thats huge on this team. PP was averaging 5 turn over a game, for a potential 10 to 15 points for the other team. That was the difference in most games. His shot is flat 90% of the time, and just can't handle like he use to.

Right now for this team I think KG is more important. Reason is if we are trading PP to bring in either Smith or Cousins on some kind of miracle trade, KG would be huge for either one of them in the learning and playing. Green has had his time with PP, and now is ready to be freed to see if anything has stuck.

Now if PP can get his clutch shooting back constantly with out the bad turn overs, then its going to be a new discussion...   

[LGC88]

It's sad to admit that PP is slower now. He can't drive to the basket to provoke fouls or make a tough layup like he used to do. Also his 4th quarters are not what it used to be. He's not the impact player of the team anymore. He's still a good scorer and grab many rebounds and assists.
However I believe he would have a better season if RR was there.
Anyway most importantly, it's about money and 15.3 millions with only 5 guaranteed is what makes PP a potential goner.

[sed522002]

Sentimental reason will make you keep PP, but he hasn't been very efficient for the last couple of playoffs.

2012 playoffs was carried by KG and Rondo. We all remember PP big shot over Lebron in Miami, but before that he was going through slumps. He would still get you about 20 points, but he was almost getting it on 18-20 attempts.

They both are important, but PP was hurting more than he was helping in the playoffs this yr (when it matters the most).