Author Topic: For the Gorgui Dieng fans  (Read 7773 times)

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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2013, 04:26:31 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

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A few minutes ago on ESPN, Chad Ford on the most overrated player in the draft:

Gorgui Dieng. He rode Louisville's great NCAA championship game into the first round, maybe the lottery. He's old and still pretty raw offensively. He has high bust potential.

I could not agree more. Why people on this site want this guy is beyond me. He is basically Fab Melo again. So why pick up the same guy at 16 when we got him at 22 last year. The obsession with centers has got to stop. I still think that if we stay at 16 the best pick would be either a point  or shooting guard. Jamaal Franklin would be a brilliant pick at 16 if you ask me. He can do everything, guard 3 positions and has a crazy motor. Perfect for Boton
"the obsession with centers has got to stop".....

How bout the obsessions with guards, who we currently have 6 of on the roster.

How many centers do we have? 0

That's what I was thinking. And if KG retires, we'll have a front line about as good as that of the Bobcats.

Well to be fair, if KG retires we'll have a frontline as good as the Bobcats anyways.

Touché!  ;D
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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2013, 04:36:56 PM »

Offline Gainesville Celtic

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I think Dieng will make a fine backup center in the NBA but I don't expect any more than that from him though. I would be surprised if he ever became a quality starter.

I would like Danny Ainge to aim for something better than that with the #16 pick. Even if it's a higher risk choice. I'd rather take that chance and try to develop someone than take the more sure thing with a low ceiling.

I expect this is what Danny will do -- take the highest upside guy at #16.


FWIW, from what little I saw of Dieng the thing that really stood out to me was his passing. It looked fluid, natural and quick.

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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2013, 04:58:09 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Ummm his age shouldn't be a factor at all in projecting his ceiling... He may be 23, but he learned English very quickly, and adapted to American style in a few years. Hes performing leaps and bounds from when he first started.

A large wing span, smart passing, good IQ, could add a few more pounds, nice mid range jumper, and is good defensively...

I don't want another project. Sure if it pans out then great, and if it doesn't, then we just wasted a pick on someone we could've got who's NBA ready.
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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2013, 05:07:12 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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A few minutes ago on ESPN, Chad Ford on the most overrated player in the draft:

Gorgui Dieng. He rode Louisville's great NCAA championship game into the first round, maybe the lottery. He's old and still pretty raw offensively. He has high bust potential.

I could not agree more. Why people on this site want this guy is beyond me. He is basically Fab Melo again. So why pick up the same guy at 16 when we got him at 22 last year. The obsession with centers has got to stop. I still think that if we stay at 16 the best pick would be either a point  or shooting guard. Jamaal Franklin would be a brilliant pick at 16 if you ask me. He can do everything, guard 3 positions and has a crazy motor. Perfect for Boton
"the obsession with centers has got to stop".....

How bout the obsessions with guards, who we currently have 6 of on the roster.

How many centers do we have? 0

That's what I was thinking. And if KG retires, we'll have a front line about as good as that of the Bobcats.

Well to be fair, if KG retires we'll have a frontline as good as the Bobcats anyways.

C'mon am, sully is as good as biyombo.

Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2013, 05:21:17 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think if we keep KG  and PP he would be ok.    Tall decent athletic and doesn't need the ball.  If we don't he isn't worth building around.

Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2013, 05:55:39 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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A few minutes ago on ESPN, Chad Ford on the most overrated player in the draft:

Gorgui Dieng. He rode Louisville's great NCAA championship game into the first round, maybe the lottery. He's old and still pretty raw offensively. He has high bust potential.

I could not agree more. Why people on this site want this guy is beyond me. He is basically Fab Melo again. So why pick up the same guy at 16 when we got him at 22 last year. The obsession with centers has got to stop. I still think that if we stay at 16 the best pick would be either a point  or shooting guard. Jamaal Franklin would be a brilliant pick at 16 if you ask me. He can do everything, guard 3 positions and has a crazy motor. Perfect for Boton

I admit that I've been intrigued with Dieng, but I'm no expert. I certainly don't want another project (don't even really want the one we have). I will add, though, that my obsession with centers is unlikely to end anytime soon. I realize that good bigs are hard to come by, but this Boston team has got to get bigger, tougher, and meaner inside. HAS to. Whether that's through the draft, trades, or free agency, I don't care, but an old KG and an undersized Bass and Sully won't get the job done often enough.
Dieng isnt a projects. He can come in and play right away.

Guys like Steven Adams and Rudy Gobert are projects.

Agreed.

And I totally don't understand the OP's comparison with Fab.  Totally different players (other than the fact that both are tall and both will primarily be defensive players).   Dieng in no way is "basically Fab Melo again".

Fab came out very raw, having only played less than two seasons (63 total games) of college ball, in a totally different defensive system (zone).  He also projects to be more of a low-post defender.

Dieng has 3 full years (102 games) of development under a coach who teaches more of a pro-style defense.  That extra time and the style difference are huge.  Further, Dieng projects to be more of a high-paint defender who can move quickly in and out between the paint and the perimeter, who can disrupt passing lanes and hedge the P&R.

Dieng's P&R defense is already way ahead of almost every other big man in this draft and, really, ahead of most of the big men who came out of LAST year's draft.

The whole mythology that has started to develop around 'upside' versus years in school is becoming the true 'problem obsession'.

Big men who come out as freshmen routinely take 2 or 3 years (or more) to become effective in the NBA anyway.

And more and more, the rotations minutes of the NBA's elite teams are being dominated by players well over 28 and into their 30s.   Whether a rookie is 21 or 23 is kinda a ridiculous thing to get fixated on.

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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2013, 06:11:19 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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A few minutes ago on ESPN, Chad Ford on the most overrated player in the draft:

Gorgui Dieng. He rode Louisville's great NCAA championship game into the first round, maybe the lottery. He's old and still pretty raw offensively. He has high bust potential.

I could not agree more. Why people on this site want this guy is beyond me. He is basically Fab Melo again. So why pick up the same guy at 16 when we got him at 22 last year. The obsession with centers has got to stop. I still think that if we stay at 16 the best pick would be either a point  or shooting guard. Jamaal Franklin would be a brilliant pick at 16 if you ask me. He can do everything, guard 3 positions and has a crazy motor. Perfect for Boton

I admit that I've been intrigued with Dieng, but I'm no expert. I certainly don't want another project (don't even really want the one we have). I will add, though, that my obsession with centers is unlikely to end anytime soon. I realize that good bigs are hard to come by, but this Boston team has got to get bigger, tougher, and meaner inside. HAS to. Whether that's through the draft, trades, or free agency, I don't care, but an old KG and an undersized Bass and Sully won't get the job done often enough.
Dieng isnt a projects. He can come in and play right away.

Guys like Steven Adams and Rudy Gobert are projects.

Agreed.

And I totally don't understand the OP's comparison with Fab.  Totally different players (other than the fact that both are tall and both will primarily be defensive players).   Dieng in no way is "basically Fab Melo again".

Fab came out very raw, having only played less than two seasons (63 total games) of college ball, in a totally different defensive system (zone).  He also projects to be more of a low-post defender.

Dieng has 3 full years (102 games) of development under a coach who teaches more of a pro-style defense.  That extra time and the style difference are huge.  Further, Dieng projects to be more of a high-paint defender who can move quickly in and out between the paint and the perimeter, who can disrupt passing lanes and hedge the P&R.

Dieng's P&R defense is already way ahead of almost every other big man in this draft and, really, ahead of most of the big men who came out of LAST year's draft.

The whole mythology that has started to develop around 'upside' versus years in school is becoming the true 'problem obsession'.

Big men who come out as freshmen routinely take 2 or 3 years (or more) to become effective in the NBA anyway.

And more and more, the rotations minutes of the NBA's elite teams are being dominated by players well over 28 and into their 30s.   Whether a rookie is 21 or 23 is kinda a ridiculous thing to get fixated on.
well said. Ceiling has to do with how long one has been playing as well as work ethic. Both of those go in Gorgui Dieng's favor.

Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2013, 06:15:50 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Ummm his age shouldn't be a factor at all in projecting his ceiling... He may be 23, but he learned English very quickly, and adapted to American style in a few years. Hes performing leaps and bounds from when he first started.

A large wing span, smart passing, good IQ, could add a few more pounds, nice mid range jumper, and is good defensively...

I don't want another project. Sure if it pans out then great, and if it doesn't, then we just wasted a pick on someone we could've got who's NBA ready.

I think this lines up  with my thinking.

Hunting for a home run right now is very dangerous - if you strike out, that's going to really hurt to have basically zero value from this draft in a couple of years.

If you get someone like Dieng at this point, he's almost certain to be at a minimum a solid role player who can get rotation minutes on most teams.  That means that he will almost certainly have good, positive trade value.   

So even if he doesn't turn into a super star player, he can be combined with other pieces to try to get that star.

That's a much more reliable path to a star a couple of years from now than gambling on some high upside / high risk draft pick at #16.

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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2013, 07:10:14 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Dieng is basically a weaker but a more skilled version of Ezeli.

Not a bust but likely not a steal. Around the 20's will be the right area to draft Dieng

Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2013, 07:26:32 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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Dieng is basically a weaker but a more skilled version of Ezeli.

Not a bust but likely not a steal. Around the 20's will be the right area to draft Dieng
Defensively they are similar, but Dieng is way better offensively. He has a consistent mid range jumper as well as very good court vision.

Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2013, 09:03:29 PM »

Offline chambers

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Sounds like Ford doing dirty work for a team like Miami who need a skilled, ready to go defensive big. Trying to reduce his stock. If anyone has watched this kid it's obvious how FOS Ford is here.  He was the rim protector on a championship team, his defense on pick and rolls,1v1 and coming from the weak side make him an immediate contributor.
Either the lakers, heator some other top 8 team want him.
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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2013, 11:10:47 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Sounds like Ford doing dirty work for a team like Miami who need a skilled, ready to go defensive big. Trying to reduce his stock. If anyone has watched this kid it's obvious how FOS Ford is here.  He was the rim protector on a championship team, his defense on pick and rolls,1v1 and coming from the weak side make him an immediate contributor.
Either the lakers, heator some other top 8 team want him.

Hey, if he can talk other folks out of taking him in the first 15 picks, I'm OK with that!

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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2013, 11:36:01 PM »

Offline ianboyextreme

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Sounds like Ford doing dirty work for a team like Miami who need a skilled, ready to go defensive big. Trying to reduce his stock. If anyone has watched this kid it's obvious how FOS Ford is here.  He was the rim protector on a championship team, his defense on pick and rolls,1v1 and coming from the weak side make him an immediate contributor.
Either the lakers, heator some other top 8 team want him.
Nothing describes Chad Ford more than FOS on a lost of his opinions.

Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2013, 01:33:37 PM »

Offline LEHGOCELTICS

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Dieng can pass the ball surprisingly well, and he can actually rebound and play good defense. Sounds like a good pick at our spot for me. I don't need analysts trying to debunk what I've already confirmed with my eyes.


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Re: For the Gorgui Dieng fans
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2013, 04:00:14 PM »

Offline Monkhouse

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Either we got for Withey or Dieng... If we don't go for either, and draft Shabazz/Larkins I'll be content. But please, GO for a big or PG!

I have a gut feeling Dieng could change our entire game just by being a defensive stopper/rim protector. Something we've desperately needed in SO LONG!
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different