How do you perceive Avery Bradley as a player?

[crimson_stallion]

There seems to be a lot of different opinion on here in regards to Avery.  Most people seem to see the debate in black and white - either believing he will be an All-Star, or believing he will be low impact role player.

What do you see in his future?

When Tony Allen left Boston I have to say I was a little upset.  On one hand he was injury prone and very raw offensively  On the other hand he was very athletic, high energy guy and had developed into a really exceptional defender.  I knew he would never become an All-Star, but I did believe his defense alone would lead to him become a very high impact role player for somebody out there.

Sure enough he went to Memphis, and he had a lot to do with their transformation into a legit playoff threat and borderline contender in the west. Many people would tell you today that Memphis would be nowhere near as strong without Tony Allen's defense on the perimeter.

When I look at Avery Bradley I see Tony Allen in his Celtics days, only I think Bradley actually has higher upside.  I think he's a much better defender already than Allen was in his early Celtics days, I think he's more athletic, I think he's better offensively than Allen was, and (at his young age) I think he has more potential to improve. 

Like the impact TA had in Memphis, when AB returned from injury this season he had an almost immediate impact on the Celtics - our defensive rating instantly (and dramatically) improved, and we immediately went on a long winning streak.  This impact in only his third season, and only 2 games back from a major surgery.

Many people seem to think AB is easilly replacable because he will never be an All-Star, but Allen was never an All-Star and most would say he is a critical part of the Grizzlie's success right now. 

Likewise there have been other great defensive players in the past such as Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier who have never come close to seeing an All-Star game, yet still their value to their teams has never been questioned.

A lot of naysayers would also point to AB's poor performance in the playoffs, but in answer to that you need to consider that he was played out of position at the PG spot against a team who constantly had 2-3 point guards on the floor pressuring the ball.  Put a 3rd year Tony Allen (or even the current one) at PG in that scenario and I doubt he would have fared any better. I blame Doc rather than AB for that because I think any number of guys (Terry, Williams, Crawford, Lee) would have probably been more cofortable at the PG spot than Bradley was.

Anyhow I believe that within the next 2-3 years Avery Bradley is going to have a Tony Allen/Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier type impact on the teams he plays for.  A 'glue guy' who makes every team he plays for better, and does so without the need to have the ball in his hands.  He may even become better, defensively, than any one of those guys and is probably already on par with all of them (bar maybe Battier) offensively.

So that's my take on the AB debate.  Where do you guys think he will be in 2-3 years, and do you think he will have as big an impact on his teams as those guys have had on theirs?  More importantly do you think we will regret it down the track if we trade him away now?

[pearljammer10]

Turribly.

[ManUp]

I'm not sold on Bradley. His lack of size is a huge issue for me. I don't like the idea of having a starting back court of a 6'2 and 6'3 guy. I think it's a defensively liability because I'm not sold on Bradley's ability to defend 2-guards and I know Rondo definitely can't.

Second, he's a horrible offensive player. Outside of his inconsistent jumper and the occasional basket cuts Bradley is a non factor offensively. He can't pass, can't dribble, and can't finish at the rim. His athleticism is going to waste on the offensive end because he doesn't have the basic skills to use it.

His one NBA level skill is defense and I'm not sure the refs will ever give him free reign. Your simply not allowed to  get into guys on the perimeter like Bradley does anymore. Some nights they will let him play  and be physical, but I think most nights they won't.

Right now I'm just not convinced that Bradley is an NBA caliber starter.

[hpantazo]

I'm not sold on Bradley. His lack of size is a huge issue for me. I don't like the idea of having a starting back court of a 6'2 and 6'3 guy. I think it's a defensively liability because I'm not sold on Bradley's ability to defend 2-guards and I know Rondo definitely can't.

Second, he's a horrible offensive player. Outside of his inconsistent jumper and the occasional basket cuts Bradley is a non factor offensively. He can't pass, can't dribble, and can't finish at the rim. His athleticism is going to waste on the offensive end because he doesn't have the basic skills to use it.

His one NBA level skill is defense and I'm not sure the refs will ever give him free reign. Your simply not allowed to  get into guys on the perimeter like Bradley does anymore. Some nights they will let him play  and be physical, but I think most nights they won't.

Right now I'm just not convinced that Bradley is an NBA caliber starter.

TP, you pretty much stated my exact opinion word for word.

[CelticG1]

To be brief I think Rondo and him are a great defensive backcourt with either being interchangeable guarding both positions. Both extremely long arms and great hands, both extrenely quick and athletic. When Rondo is playing at a high level, mainly in important games, playoff gsmes etc, the defense that he can bring along with averys every day d is pretty devistating.

For Avery Bradley my main gripe at this point is his ball handling. Ok he may not be a pg but his ball handling looks like he is Perk out there dribbling around. I think his shot could comearound as he has decent form and has at times looked good shooting the ball but his ball handling I think affects everything offensively a lot of the time.

He has to be one of the worst ball handling guards in the league. And its odd to cause its not llike he's an awkwardly tall 2 guard or something. Hes basically a pg sized 2 guard but dribbles as if he was a center.

Can anyone think of any 1's, 2's or even 3's with worse? Tony Allens the only one who I can think of that comes close

[CelticG1]

I do agree that defense is starting to become overrated at the guard position. Hes one of thebest defenders in the league but with how refs call the game he will more likely be in foul trouble and off the court a lot of the game unless he scales bback or something.

That's a shame for the league.

[crimson_stallion]

I don't think his ball handling is THAT bad to be honest.  Most of his turnovers during the playoffs were from bad passes and bad decision making rather than bouncing off his foot or losing the ball under pressure.

I don't think he is an offensive liability out there as long as he's not expected to do too much (i.e. handle the ball and run the offense).  He seems to lack confidence at the best of times, and when he is forced out of his comfort zone his confidence drops to the point where it affects other parts of his game - he starts making silly mistakes, he gets softer on defense, etc.

I'm not too concerned with AB defending bigger guards.  I've seen him defend strong guards (like D Wade) and bigger guards without much trouble.  Obviously he'll struggle if he ends up on someone like Lebron or Carmello though.

AB really struggled this season, far more then he did in the prior one.  He missed a LOT of open layup and midrange jumpers that were automatic for him last season.  I think that touch will return to him in time and he will be a servicable offensive player, but I don't think he'll ever be a dominant one.

Remember guys that AB is still only 22 years old.  Look how far Rondo's midrange jumper has come from the time he entered the league until this season (where he was hitting at up around 50% from midrange). Bradley is nowhere near as bad a shooter as Rondo was in his first two or three seasons, so I'm fairly confident he'll improve in that regard.  Hell even Lebron was a pretty poor shooter early in his career, but has come a LONG way in the last season or two. 

Honestly I'd like to give him another season or two just to see whether he improves, because I think he's just too young, athletic and hard working to not improve as a player.  I see the size concerns but the NBA is a different league today.  There are very few SG's out there at 6'6" - 6'7" today.  Most of those guys who would have played SG in the past are moving up to SF these days as more teams move towards small-ball lineups and three-guard rotations.

I think it's pretty rare that you'll see Bradley having to guard a guy with Joe Johnson's size.

Just my thoughts though!

[Monkhouse]

I don't like the fact defense equates to you getting multiple foul calls.. There is just too much flopping and terrible calls nowadays that even if Bradley was the best defender, he'd most likely be fouled out before the 4th quarter ended if he was as tenacious as he was every game.

Does anyone know why Bradley, and Sullinger aren't playing in the summer league in Orlando?

Also, we got Bradley for his defense, and his spot up shooting. If he can master his 3 pt corner jumper, rotate more on defense on the pick and roll, and cut more efficiently that's all you'll expect from him. Once Bradley gets more comfortable, I can see him making layups, or dunking them. He was the winner of a slam dunk contest if I recall. 

[Moranis]

Allen/Bowen/Battier are all significantly bigger and stronger than Bradley.  Bradley may have a big reach, but he is in a very small frame.  As such, he won't have anywhere near the impact that the other three have.  His size will always be a problem and unless someone invents a size pill, he won't ever be able to fix it.

[ScottHow]

I'm not sold on Bradley. His lack of size is a huge issue for me. I don't like the idea of having a starting back court of a 6'2 and 6'3 guy. I think it's a defensively liability because I'm not sold on Bradley's ability to defend 2-guards and I know Rondo definitely can't.

Second, he's a horrible offensive player. Outside of his inconsistent jumper and the occasional basket cuts Bradley is a non factor offensively. He can't pass, can't dribble, and can't finish at the rim. His athleticism is going to waste on the offensive end because he doesn't have the basic skills to use it.

His one NBA level skill is defense and I'm not sure the refs will ever give him free reign. Your simply not allowed to  get into guys on the perimeter like Bradley does anymore. Some nights they will let him play  and be physical, but I think most nights they won't.

Right now I'm just not convinced that Bradley is an NBA caliber starter.

Thanks for saving me some typing, tp

[Who]

I want to see more of him. I want to see Bradley play alongside Rondo for a full season and actually defend the SG spot next season. See how well he can truly defend that position and function offensively.

Until then, I am reluctant to pass judgment on the man's future here and equally reluctant to trade him.

[thirstyboots18]

I don't like the fact defense equates to you getting multiple foul calls.. There is just too much flopping and terrible calls nowadays that even if Bradley was the best defender, he'd most likely be fouled out before the 4th quarter ended if he was as tenacious as he was every game.

Does anyone know why Bradley, and Sullinger aren't playing in the summer league in Orlando?

Also, we got Bradley for his defense, and his spot up shooting. If he can master his 3 pt corner jumper, rotate more on defense on the pick and roll, and cut more efficiently that's all you'll expect from him. Once Bradley gets more comfortable, I can see him making layups, or dunking them. He was the winner of a slam dunk contest if I recall.

I don't know why AB and Sully are not playing in the summer league, but I suspect that it is because: 1.  they have both started for the Celtics, and their skill sets are known;  2.  To give them more time to heal; 3. Because the purpose of summer league is to get a look at the potential of rookies and second year players, undrafted players and possibly free agents/waived players trying to connect with  a team... rather than regular rotation NBA players.  At least that is how I understand it.

[Monkhouse]

I don't like the fact defense equates to you getting multiple foul calls.. There is just too much flopping and terrible calls nowadays that even if Bradley was the best defender, he'd most likely be fouled out before the 4th quarter ended if he was as tenacious as he was every game.

Does anyone know why Bradley, and Sullinger aren't playing in the summer league in Orlando?

Also, we got Bradley for his defense, and his spot up shooting. If he can master his 3 pt corner jumper, rotate more on defense on the pick and roll, and cut more efficiently that's all you'll expect from him. Once Bradley gets more comfortable, I can see him making layups, or dunking them. He was the winner of a slam dunk contest if I recall.

I don't know why AB and Sully are not playing in the summer league, but I suspect that it is because: 1.  they have both started for the Celtics, and their skill sets are known;  2.  To give them more time to heal; 3. Because the purpose of summer league is to get a look at the potential of rookies and second year players, undrafted players and possibly free agents/waived players trying to connect with  a team... rather than regular rotation NBA players.  At least that is how I understand it.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I never knew much about the summer league, but I did know Pierce/KG supervised it along with Doc. So I assumed it was basically something all players play with other plays, like an ongoing scrimmage.

With this I hope Fab Melo gets some IMMEDIATE help! All we need him to do is play 5-12 minutes of solid defense, and blocks/rebounds.

We should draft Dieng/Shabazz.



 

[wdleehi]

I think he is a starting SG in the NBA. 


But to be at his best, he needs to be next to a PG with some size.  (think Kidd size) 


He would be the perfect cross matchup player.  Put the high level of pressure on the other teams PG while the larger PG defends the SG. 



I like how he and Rondo play together, but I worry that he will not last long in the NBA banging against bigger guards all the time. 


I think he can be a respectable shooter as long as he is not being asked to create.  His shot worked when he was able to set himself and shoot with his body moving straight up. 

[CelticG1]

Allen/Bowen/Battier are all significantly bigger and stronger than Bradley.  Bradley may have a big reach, but he is in a very small frame.  As such, he won't have anywhere near the impact that the other three have.  His size will always be a problem and unless someone invents a size pill, he won't ever be able to fix it.

Just becauee they have more size doesn't mean bradley can't guard or play shooting guard position.

Size to me is about as irrelevant as having a 7 foot 1 guy or a 6.10 guy at center. What you need is a guy who possesses the skills.

I mean size was the last thing I was worried about. For me it was him not being able to dribble a basketball or being extrnely inconsistent with the jumper, shooting anytiime he was open and plenty of other things.

I rarely see size being an issueand hasn't really been proven at all yet. Weve seen him hound a variety of opposing players and get beaten by a couple here or there. If there are shooting guards who can take advantage of him I think they are a lot fewer and further between.