Making a case to bring it back one more time....

[BleedGreen1989]

Maybe I'm delusional. Maybe I have my green goggles on. Maybe I've had way too many Sam Adams tonight. All I can say is that I think, providing a few good moves by Danny, this team can come back in the Eastern conference.

Let's face it, it's Miami and everyone else. Is a healthy Celtics team really that far behind a Chicago or Indiana? Allow me to highlight a few minor things I think would greatly help this team.

1) Convince Pierce to be a sixth man

I think this is extremely important if Danny "runs it back" persay. If Pierce can get his minutes down to about 30 a game, off the bench I feel he can stay fresh and be very effective.

2) Sign Samuel Dalembert

I crunched the trade machine so many times last year trying to figure out a way to get Sammy to Boston. Say his IQ is bad if you want but numbers don't lie (sorry Michael K) Sammy's per36 numbers equal out to about 14points/13rebounds/2.2blocks. He would immediately provide an inside presence this team lacks so bad. He would pair well with KG or Sullinger.

3) Draft Gorgui Dieng

Dieng anchored a defense that led Louisville to a national championship. His combination of defense, rebounding, athleticism, and size would be a great injection into Boston's front line. While his upside may be limited, Dieng can step in immediately and fill a role on this team.

4) Trade one of Crawford, Lee, or Terry for a big

This move does not have to be anybody special, just another big. Maybe Atlanta takes a sign and trade for Ivan Johnson. Johnson is somebody who will simply pound the snot out of you and play good defense. Him and KG would form one nasty front line.

5) Acquire Beno Udrih

The Magic likely have very little interest in bringing Beno back but he could serve a solid role for Boston off the bench. This past season, Udrih averaged 13.3 points and 7.5 assists per 36 minutes and hit on 44.1 percent of his field-goal attempts. He is a career 46.2 percent shooter, and he shot 50 percent from the floor as recently as 2010-11. I'm sure Orlando would entertain the idea of Crawford in a sign and trade instead of losing Beno for nothing.

So let's recap. Boston moves Pierce to the bench in a sixth man role. Signs Samuel Dalembert. Drafts Gorgui Dieng. Adds another big on the bench. Acquires Beno Udrih.

Rondo/Udrih/Williams
Bradley/Pierce/Lee/Terry
Green/Pierce
Sullinger/Bass/Dieng/Johnson
Garnett/Dalembert/Dieng

One more shot, one more chance. Then Boston lets PP and KG retire and their combined 30mill off the books.

[BleedGreen1989]

Hmm everybody seems pretty dead set on a rebuild I guess lol

[hpantazo]

I gotta say, I agree with pretty much all of your points, especially on acquiring Udrih and Dalembert. Those two players are exactly what we need for a reasonable cost.

[More Banners]

I don't mind the idea, considering there aren't likely to be any blockbusters out there.

Not sure on the draft, and don't expect anything of rookies anyway.

The huge problem is with the starting lineup not having 3pt shooting.  It's a massive problem.  Start Pierce at SG is the only option that makes sense, and sub Bradley.

I don't know who Orlando has, but they were terrible.  They might actually want Crawford, Melo, and Lee or Terry, especially if they come with a 2nd.  I'd do that to dump Terry and get Beno, who is a really sharp player.

Rondo/Pierce/Green/Sully/KG is a pretty good lineup, but I'd rather a more experienced option than Sully.

Beno/Bradley/Lee/Bass/Dalembert is a really nice bench.

I think I'd just as well have Steimsma, actually.  I like bigger bigs.

But I don't really want to start KG at center.  Sully as a starter requires that, though.  I'd rather a better shot blocker and more physical guy (that we won't be worried about wearing down).

[Evantime34]

This is a good option and one that seems very likely.

I think even if this team is healthy we don't have enough to be a contender. However, rebuilding assumes that someone will give us fair value for Pierce or KG. If this doesn't happen our best option by far is running it back.

This option is less interesting for people to discuss because our team doesn't change much, so there isn't much opportunity to play the arm chair gm.

[BleedGreen1989]

I don't mind the idea, considering there aren't likely to be any blockbusters out there.

Not sure on the draft, and don't expect anything of rookies anyway.

The huge problem is with the starting lineup not having 3pt shooting.  It's a massive problem.  Start Pierce at SG is the only option that makes sense, and sub Bradley.

I don't know who Orlando has, but they were terrible.  They might actually want Crawford, Melo, and Lee or Terry, especially if they come with a 2nd.  I'd do that to dump Terry and get Beno, who is a really sharp player.

Rondo/Pierce/Green/Sully/KG is a pretty good lineup, but I'd rather a more experienced option than Sully.

Beno/Bradley/Lee/Bass/Dalembert is a really nice bench.

I think I'd just as well have Steimsma, actually.  I like bigger bigs.

But I don't really want to start KG at center.  Sully as a starter requires that, though.  I'd rather a better shot blocker and more physical guy (that we won't be worried about wearing down).

Well Green did shoot a very solid 39% from 3pt range so there is some shooting in the starting line up but Bradley would certainly have to improve his corner 3 at least back to where he was hitting it consistently.

[CelticConcourse]

I don't mind the idea, considering there aren't likely to be any blockbusters out there.

Not sure on the draft, and don't expect anything of rookies anyway.

The huge problem is with the starting lineup not having 3pt shooting.  It's a massive problem.  Start Pierce at SG is the only option that makes sense, and sub Bradley.

I don't know who Orlando has, but they were terrible.  They might actually want Crawford, Melo, and Lee or Terry, especially if they come with a 2nd.  I'd do that to dump Terry and get Beno, who is a really sharp player.

Rondo/Pierce/Green/Sully/KG is a pretty good lineup, but I'd rather a more experienced option than Sully.

Beno/Bradley/Lee/Bass/Dalembert is a really nice bench.

I think I'd just as well have Steimsma, actually.  I like bigger bigs.

But I don't really want to start KG at center.  Sully as a starter requires that, though.  I'd rather a better shot blocker and more physical guy (that we won't be worried about wearing down).

Well Green did shoot a very solid 39% from 3pt range so there is some shooting in the starting line up but Bradley would certainly have to improve his corner 3 at least back to where he was hitting it consistently.

Green's 39% was incredibly skewed. Bradley shot 40.7% in 2011-12 and look what happened.

[hpantazo]

I don't mind the idea, considering there aren't likely to be any blockbusters out there.

Not sure on the draft, and don't expect anything of rookies anyway.

The huge problem is with the starting lineup not having 3pt shooting.  It's a massive problem.  Start Pierce at SG is the only option that makes sense, and sub Bradley.

I don't know who Orlando has, but they were terrible.  They might actually want Crawford, Melo, and Lee or Terry, especially if they come with a 2nd.  I'd do that to dump Terry and get Beno, who is a really sharp player.

Rondo/Pierce/Green/Sully/KG is a pretty good lineup, but I'd rather a more experienced option than Sully.

Beno/Bradley/Lee/Bass/Dalembert is a really nice bench.

I think I'd just as well have Steimsma, actually.  I like bigger bigs.

But I don't really want to start KG at center.  Sully as a starter requires that, though.  I'd rather a better shot blocker and more physical guy (that we won't be worried about wearing down).

Well Green did shoot a very solid 39% from 3pt range so there is some shooting in the starting line up but Bradley would certainly have to improve his corner 3 at least back to where he was hitting it consistently.

Green's 39% was incredibly skewed. Bradley shot 40.7% in 2011-12 and look what happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by his 3pt percentage being skewed? How so? He took a fair amount of 3 pt shots.

[More Banners]

I don't mind the idea, considering there aren't likely to be any blockbusters out there.

Not sure on the draft, and don't expect anything of rookies anyway.

The huge problem is with the starting lineup not having 3pt shooting.  It's a massive problem.  Start Pierce at SG is the only option that makes sense, and sub Bradley.

I don't know who Orlando has, but they were terrible.  They might actually want Crawford, Melo, and Lee or Terry, especially if they come with a 2nd.  I'd do that to dump Terry and get Beno, who is a really sharp player.

Rondo/Pierce/Green/Sully/KG is a pretty good lineup, but I'd rather a more experienced option than Sully.

Beno/Bradley/Lee/Bass/Dalembert is a really nice bench.

I think I'd just as well have Steimsma, actually.  I like bigger bigs.

But I don't really want to start KG at center.  Sully as a starter requires that, though.  I'd rather a better shot blocker and more physical guy (that we won't be worried about wearing down).

Well Green did shoot a very solid 39% from 3pt range so there is some shooting in the starting line up but Bradley would certainly have to improve his corner 3 at least back to where he was hitting it consistently.

Green's 39% was incredibly skewed. Bradley shot 40.7% in 2011-12 and look what happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by his 3pt percentage being skewed? How so? He took a fair amount of 3 pt shots.

Had hot streak.  Watch for 'regression toward the mean.'

A couple of knock-down 38-40% shooters would be great.

It may be what we end up using Pierce for.

Pierce and KG shoot jumpers, while Rondo, Green, and Sully go to work?

[LooseCannon]

Hmm everybody seems pretty dead set on a rebuild I guess lol

Not everybody.  I'd rather hold it together for another even if Pierce and Garnett are gone and re-evaluate next summer.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Huge fan of the Ivan Johnson acquisition. He is exactly what we need to toughen up the frontcourt. I fear him more than Smith and Teague at times when I watch Hawks games here in ATL. Fear, as in, I'm afraid to watch out of fear of what he might do to someone during the game.

An aside, I've thought about this for a while now and I'm shocked by all the research terms throw around here (e.g., sample size, skewness, regression to the mean)! I know there were threads created for this... but I have to assume you guys are in some way involved in science-oriented careers.

[Afam]

 Deleted.

[bfrombleacher]

I don't mind the idea, considering there aren't likely to be any blockbusters out there.

Not sure on the draft, and don't expect anything of rookies anyway.

The huge problem is with the starting lineup not having 3pt shooting.  It's a massive problem.  Start Pierce at SG is the only option that makes sense, and sub Bradley.

I don't know who Orlando has, but they were terrible.  They might actually want Crawford, Melo, and Lee or Terry, especially if they come with a 2nd.  I'd do that to dump Terry and get Beno, who is a really sharp player.

Rondo/Pierce/Green/Sully/KG is a pretty good lineup, but I'd rather a more experienced option than Sully.

Beno/Bradley/Lee/Bass/Dalembert is a really nice bench.

I think I'd just as well have Steimsma, actually.  I like bigger bigs.

But I don't really want to start KG at center.  Sully as a starter requires that, though.  I'd rather a better shot blocker and more physical guy (that we won't be worried about wearing down).

Well Green did shoot a very solid 39% from 3pt range so there is some shooting in the starting line up but Bradley would certainly have to improve his corner 3 at least back to where he was hitting it consistently.

Green's 39% was incredibly skewed. Bradley shot 40.7% in 2011-12 and look what happened.

I'm not sure what you mean by his 3pt percentage being skewed? How so? He took a fair amount of 3 pt shots.

Had hot streak.  Watch for 'regression toward the mean.'

A couple of knock-down 38-40% shooters would be great.

It may be what we end up using Pierce for.

Pierce and KG shoot jumpers, while Rondo, Green, and Sully go to work?

Kind of off topic...but...

JG's taking about 2 3's a game, less than before.

Someone once pointed that out and said even if you take that 1 3 per game away he's still very solid.

So his crazy production at the 2nd half of the season definitely does not hinge on his 3 point shooting.

[BleedGreen1989]

I'm glad to back in this forum again. i used to  post under the username JustAfam, but for some reason my account disappeared.

Anyways back on topic, I believe Danny Ainge should trade the Big two in Kg. We two can't rely on two  old players to carry us for a 82 game season. Even if their minutes are reduced, their skills are greatly diminished so i see no difference that would make.

On the OP suggestions that we bring back the team together,   i will like to make a counter argument to his suggestions.

1. Pierce accepting a Sixth man Role. I don't think paul will accept a sixth man rule or so willingly. Players have pride too. Lets face it paul pierce is still a better player than jeff green eve at age 36. 

1(B). Paul pierce already said he doesn't want to be a part of any rebuild so starting Jeff green is clearing signaling   
to Paul pierce that the Celtics are heading in that direction. 

2.Signing Dalembert. Dalembert is no scrub as a player so any team would want him on their team. Furthermore, he also happens to be a good rebounder but with that said signing Dalembert will eat into our cap space plus he is not a type of player that would make us a title contender. 

Drafting Dieing. I know nothing about the kid besides looking him up right now. The kid doesn't impress me at all. How do  you average 31 mins at Louisville, but average only  9 points per game. Furthermore. but isn't drafting a rookie especially one who is raw counter productive to both rebuilding and keeping the group together.

Beno Udrih/ He is a solid backup point guard, but what happens to Bradley. Bradley is not a consistent  shooter  and watching Bradley he seems to be able to defend point guards well better than shooting guards especially the big   
ones.   

Trading Lee, or Terry. Yes i will accept that move. but im sorry trading one of lee or terry doesn't get you a big especially bigs like Mislap, Al Jefferson. you have to trade both, lee and terry to accomplish that. That still might not be enough so you would have to throw in a pick to get that done. I have seen posters on different celtics forum where im a member of including  proposing lee, melo for Al Jefferson and Crawford. Imagine you are the Gm of Utah, will you make that trade. Most people would say no to that. 

 A team filled with

Rondo/ Udrih/ williams
Bradley/Pierce/Lee
Green
Sullinger/Bass/Dieng/Johnson
Garnett/ Dalembert etc guarantees  us to be stuck in mediocrity for a long time. We are too good to not miss the playoffs, but not good enough to win a championship. No Thanks.

Well your opinion is your opinion but I will play devils advocate.

1) First off, I agree with you. Getting Pierce to embrace a sixth man role would be difficult. Maybe it happens maybe he thinks he should still be starting (which isn't out of the question with him starting at SG possibility). However, where I disagree is that starting Green would signal a rebuild. If Pierce and KG stay around it is clearly not a rebuild.

2) Signing Dalembert would cut into our cap space in which way? If Danny brings most guys back to run it again, cap options are extremely limited anyways (mini mid-level= about 3mill or so). Signing him for 2 years would not damage the salary situation anymore than it already currently is.

3) I disagree with you as well regarding Dieng. He is one of the most ready to contribute guys in this draft and not anything I would consider "raw" besides the normal rookie standard. His 9 points is of absolutely no concern to me as his role would not be to score but rather provide energy, defense, and rebounding.

4) I don't see how Udrih would have any impact on Bradley. Bradley would be the starting SG in all likelihood and Udrih is the back up PG.

5) The situation I proposed in regards to trading one of our guards for a big was not to acquire a big of Jeffersons caliber. Not even close. Simply a serviceable big who can provide 10-12 mins a game of hustle and toughness.

[Celtics4ever]

One thing no one mentioned, we can't win a title with this roster we'd be bringing back.  What do you hope to achieve in the long run other than see guys your emotionally attached too play another year.   I would not use the term, "make another run" , because they would not be in the running.

2014 is supposed to be loaded.   I bet DA unloads for pieces and picks.

I wonder how many who supported this recall the eras after Bird or even Cowens.  You'd have to be in late 40's to recall both.

While I see the sentimental value of this, I do not see the basketball value.