Author Topic: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)  (Read 7114 times)

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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2013, 12:37:49 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Salary cap was 58 this year and it is projected to be 60 next year. If they were to go in that direction (assuming Dwight and Smith/Cp3 want to play for the Lakers) they would amnesty Kobe.
Even if they did amnesty Kobe they'd be at 48.95 with all the salaries they currently have. But that's only 5 players. So with 7 roster charges of around 500k then they're at 52.45. So they'd have 7.55 in cap room.

Doesn't work to get an impact FA to pair with Dwight. They'd have 27.55 million worth of money to divide between Dwight and said FA. To little to divide between two high level guys.
They could move other guys like Nash to teams with cap space. I'm not saying it's likely but I think if they deal Gasol it will be to make LA seem like the best option for Dwight.
If they can I'll be mad that Danny didn't unload Bass/Terry on said teams first.

Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2013, 12:39:09 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't think GSW or Denver make much sense at all. They've both got very able long-term solutions at the 3, and any cap flexibility they can grant Pierce isn't going to get them far enough down to do anything special.

Golden State makes a lot of sense.  They are a likely tax-paying team who have a big contract for a useless player (Biedrins) and more money tied up in a player they don't need in Richard Jefferson.  The problem is that Biedrins has a ETO and Jefferson has a player option, which makes the timing of a trade a bit problematic.

A true blow it up trade would be Pierce and KG (if he agrees to waive his no-trade clause so he can head west with Pierce) for Biedrins, Jefferson, filler, and first-round picks, at least one of which is far enough in the future that it is likely to be available when PP/KG are gone from GS and the Warriors have a chance of sucking.

The reason why Golden State doesn't make sense is because even if you're considering Pierce a straight salary dump (as in, they're waiving him after unloading Jefferson and potentially Biedrins), who else is Golden State sending back?

They've got to resign Jarret Jack and Carl Landry. They'd love to unload Richard Jefferson and Andris Biedrins, but the Celtics would need someone back. The best Golden State seems to be offering are picks starting in 2015 at the earliest, and potentially Brandon Rush.

After the most successful playoff run in almost 40 years, who are they going to gamble on replacing? 

And last but not least, why would GSW possibly pay Pierce? They've got a player with the potential to be truly special in Harrison Barnes, but they're going to eat up his minutes in the least with Pierce at the 3? Just doesn't make sense.

If I were the Celtics and wanted a full-on rebuild, I'd prefer draft picks starting in 2015 at the earliest to getting back a player like Brandon Rush or Carl Landry.  It would make some sense to have Pierce come off the bench and possibly play as a smallball 4 when other teams go small and David Lee's defense becomes a huge problem.

Why would they pay Pierce 15.3 million dollars to be the small-ball 3? They've got Brandon Rush, Klay Thompson, and Draymond Green who can all defend the 3, and Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, and Carl Landry who can all defend small-ball 4's as well or better than Pierce can.

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It is also possible that acquiring and waiving Pierce will put Golden State far enough below the apron to use the full MLE.

Let's say Pierce was traded to Golden State:

Pierce (15.3 million) alone can net back 19.1 million in salary.

Next season, before GSW negotiates new contracts with Carl Landry and Jarret Jack, they'll be at 69.784 million dollars in payroll after Landry uses his player option and before cap holds. After cap holds they'll be at 77.984 million (+Jarret Jack's 8.1 million dollar cap hold while he negotiates a new contract).

The Celtics could hypothetically trade Pierce and DJ White for Biedrins, Jefferson, and the Warriors 2015 first round pick.

The Warriors would then waive both of them (both unguaranteed), only retaining 5 million of Pierce's salary.

Then, after Jack's cap hold, after Pierce's remaining 5 million, and everyone else they'd have on salary, they'd have roughly 62 million plus tied up, and still with no new contract for Carl Landry (and with no cap hold included, so that's sheer addition)

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There are enough possibilities there that I could see Golden State and Boston having talks that would lead to seeking a third team that can facilitate the trade.

Obviously it makes a lot of sense for Golden State to unload 10 million+ from their cap figure, but you have to think that the Celtics would want more than a 1st round pick 2 years from now from a team where 100% of their core will still be in their basketball prime.

Just seems like a bad deal for the C's. WHen it was Barnes coming back it was a homerun. Now...notsomuch.

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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2013, 12:40:30 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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Salary cap was 58 this year and it is projected to be 60 next year. If they were to go in that direction (assuming Dwight and Smith/Cp3 want to play for the Lakers) they would amnesty Kobe.
Even if they did amnesty Kobe they'd be at 48.95 with all the salaries they currently have. But that's only 5 players. So with 7 roster charges of around 500k then they're at 52.45. So they'd have 7.55 in cap room.

Doesn't work to get an impact FA to pair with Dwight. They'd have 27.55 million worth of money to divide between Dwight and said FA. To little to divide between two high level guys.
They could move other guys like Nash to teams with cap space. I'm not saying it's likely but I think if they deal Gasol it will be to make LA seem like the best option for Dwight.
If they can I'll be mad that Danny didn't unload Bass/Terry on said teams first.

Yea Dwight is going back to LA no doubt. If not anything, because he makes the most money there.
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2013, 12:45:48 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Clippers: difficult to make the salaries match, now that expiring deals can't be used. More than Bledsoe and Butler would be required.

Golden State: has Harrison Barnes and Brandon Rush returning next year (assuming he exercises his player option), so they already seem pretty set at the 3, no? As with the Clippers, making the salaries match is difficult, unless you're looking to take back Jack in a sign and trade, which probably (due to contract lengths) isn't what Ainge has in mind. Although, I think the Warriors could trade their 2014 pick after the 2013 Draft takes place, FWIW.

Dallas: seems like Pierce would be a great pairing with Dirk. It depends on how their free agent shopping goes, as I'm sure they'd like to spend their space on someone younger.
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2013, 12:47:32 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2013, 12:53:23 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Just spitballing: does the sale of the Kings to new Sacramento ownership group led by Vivek Ranadive make them more, or less, likely to blow up their roster?
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2013, 12:54:54 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Just spitballing: does the sale of the Kings to new Sacramento ownership group led by Vivek Ranadive make them more, or less, likely to blow up their roster?
More, financial limitations give whatever GM is there fewer options. If the Maloofs are out you'd think the GM would be granted more freedom.

Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2013, 12:58:51 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Obviously it makes a lot of sense for Golden State to unload 10 million+ from their cap figure, but you have to think that the Celtics would want more than a 1st round pick 2 years from now from a team where 100% of their core will still be in their basketball prime.

I think the Celtics should want a 1st round pick 2 years from now plus a 1st round pick 4 years from now.
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2013, 01:00:06 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Just spitballing: does the sale of the Kings to new Sacramento ownership group led by Vivek Ranadive make them more, or less, likely to blow up their roster?

I think they would be more likely to overpay to add something to Cousins and Evans than to blow things up.
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2013, 01:24:48 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Just spitballing: does the sale of the Kings to new Sacramento ownership group led by Vivek Ranadive make them more, or less, likely to blow up their roster?

I think they would be more likely to overpay to add something to Cousins and Evans than to blow things up.

I think so too.

Sacto has several mid-size but short-term contracts on the books. John Salmons' second year is only $1 million guaranteed (essentially making him an expiring next season), and Chuck Hayes and Travis Outlaw both expire in 2014-15.

I was wondering, if Sacto wanted to get out from those contracts and free up additional cap space for 2013-14 (Josh Smith?), would they give up pick(s) to do so?

Problem is, they already owe a future 1st to Cleveland (one that they won't be paying this year, and likely not next year either). Would need to offer Boston something in return for taking on those deals.

Edit: I suppose there's no reason why Sacto couldn't make their selection on Draft Night, and then trade the rights along with those players for Pierce. Is the projected #6 pick in a weak draft enough?
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2013, 01:35:58 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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Lakers for Pau Gasol

Yup.

Paul Pierce/Brandon Bass

For

Pau Gasol/Steve Blake

I just don't see the point of that trade.

Not really In our long or short term plans. Would rather just keep and pay pierce.

Plus I really don't see danny trading Pierce to the lakers under almost any circumstance

It's obviously a win-now move. If Danny just did that trade, it would be a pretty dam good line up.

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Garnett
Gasol

Also, I don't think it matters if its a rivalry or not. If it makes basketball sense I'm pretty sure Danny doesn't care about a team considered a rival who's not even in our conference. I'm sure a team like Miami or Chicago is different because they are direct competition.

Maybe win a round or 2 more which is pretty much what you get with paul pierce anyway.

The big difference in either line up is the addition of Rondo.

No ones going to convince me that addind pau and subtracting pierce turns us into a title contender or even close.

So again I just don't see the point of makng such a lateral move when you will prob get thw same end result.

And paying pau what 5 mil more?

Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2013, 01:47:30 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2013, 02:06:56 PM »

Offline snively

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Clippers: difficult to make the salaries match, now that expiring deals can't be used. More than Bledsoe and Butler would be required.

Golden State: has Harrison Barnes and Brandon Rush returning next year (assuming he exercises his player option), so they already seem pretty set at the 3, no? As with the Clippers, making the salaries match is difficult, unless you're looking to take back Jack in a sign and trade, which probably (due to contract lengths) isn't what Ainge has in mind. Although, I think the Warriors could trade their 2014 pick after the 2013 Draft takes place, FWIW.

Dallas: seems like Pierce would be a great pairing with Dirk. It depends on how their free agent shopping goes, as I'm sure they'd like to spend their space on someone younger.

1. Clippers: Bledsoe, Butler and Hill is within 125% of Pierce's $15.3 mil.  I think this is actually the most logical Pierce deal, though it's not my favorite.  For the Celtics, they fill 3 roster spots for almost $3 mil less than they were spending on Pierce, allowing them to stay under the tax.  Bledsoe allows them to bring Rondo back slowly if they wish and gives them a nice trade asset at the deadline (especially if he can impress in a starting role).  Butler gives them a mediocre but rotation caliber wing to allow Green to switch between the 3 and the 4.  For the Clippers, they get a big upgrade at the 3 without necessarily pushing themselves into the tax.  Pierce represents an ideal 3rd banana for CP3 and Griffin - makes them a much more serious contender. 

2. Warriors: Another factor to consider with the Warriors is the luxury tax - I think they'll be very wary of adding any salary for next year given how close they are to the threshold.  I think they'd be one of the teams that would value Pierce more for his buyout clause than his role, unless they could get us to take back more salary then we were sending out (they'd want to dump Jefferson and Biedrins).

3.  Dallas: I can't see Dallas being all that interested in Pierce.  They have capable SF options in Marion and Carter making a combined $3 mil less than Pierce. 
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PG: Chauncey Billups/Deron Williams
SG: Kobe Bryant/Eric Gordon
SF: Jimmy Butler/Danny Granger/Danilo Gallinari
PF: Al Horford/Zion Williamson
C: Yao Ming/Pau Gasol/Tyson Chandler

Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2013, 02:09:48 PM »

Offline snively

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No one else is concerned about Gasol's knees?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/08/pau-gasol-to-undergo-procedure-to-relieve-tendonosis-in-both-knees/

No more than I would be about Pierce's ongoing decline at age 36.
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Re: So where do you think Pierce is going? (if he does get traded)
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2013, 02:10:05 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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No one else is concerned about Gasol's knees?

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/08/pau-gasol-to-undergo-procedure-to-relieve-tendonosis-in-both-knees/

Yeah and that too.

I just don't think this is a "win now" move unless you get him for nothing I.e. bass, Lee, terry whatever