Why would you trade Rondo to rebuild ?

[BballTim]

The c's arent going anywhere anytime soon. Might as well blow it up and start from scratch b/c the c's wont be bad enough for high lotoo picks with Rondo on the team.

There's a reasonable chance that the Celtics can make moves in the summer of 2014 to add a max-contract guy to a core consisting of Rondo, Green, Sullinger, and Bradley.  If there's even a 25% chance of that happening, that probably brings the Celtics closer to a title in the near future than blowing it up and starting from scratch.

When was the last time the Celtics signed a max free agent? Well, never. I think to expect to sign a max type player is foolish. It's never happened and it's not gonna happen, especially with Rondo/Green as the other "centerpieces" on the team.

The way the Celtics have always built their teams is through the draft and trades. In order to get/trade for impact players, you need to stockpile young talent/picks. The only players on the team right now that can net you anything significant is rondo, and to a lesser extent green (unless the clippers are completely insane and somehow do that deal rumoured today. but dont hold your breath though).

Nobody said rebuidling was easy or fun. It's a process. And in the nba sometimes you have to bottom out to get back up. Keeping Rondo and Green makes you good enough to be mediocre and mediocrity in the nba = purgatory. And i just dont get why some people would rather the team try and make the playoffs with a mediocre team knowing fully well they have no shot to win it all.

when have they ever had money to offer a max contract ?

Never is the answer

and they have a top 5 pg , who loves to pass the ball .

If you have the money , players will come to Boston

It's already known Josh Smith would sign here

Al Jefferson also mentioned how he would enjoy returning to Boston , given the opportunity .

No they aren't superstars , but big name players clearly would play here .

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Signing Josh Smith or Al Jefferson for example doesnt do anything for me. A lineup of Rondo/Bradley/Green/Smith/Jefferson might be one of the worst shooting lineups of all time and still wont be good enough to win a championship. They'd be a 4-5 seed.

It's a superstar driven league. Signing a bunch of above average players wont really get you anything execpt for killing your cap space/flexibility with long term obligations.

  That would probably be an above average scoring team.

[Celtics18]

Rajon Rondo:

4 consecutive all star games.

4 consecutive all defensive teams.

Top ten in MVP voting twice.

Top five in Defensive Player of the Year voting twice.  Top ten three times.

One time 3rd team All NBA.

I checked with BBallTim, and he assures me he didn't get a vote in any of those awards.  Without the help of the "fanboys" here at Celticsblog, that's an impressive resume through six and half years of work. 

Despite all these honors,  the consensus opinion among the faithful is that our point guard stinks in the regular season, coasting through, saving it up for when it really matters . . . the playoffs.

As solid as our young point guard has been in the regular season, the playoffs is when he really shines.  Luckily, he's had plenty of opportunities to perform on the biggest stage in his short career. 

In 2009, he outperformed the Rookie of the Year, soon to be youngest MVP in the history of the game in a thrilling first round, seven game series.

In 2010, he was the best player on the court in a series against the King's heavily favored Cleveland Cavaliers.  He almost single handed sent Lebron packing out of Cleveland.

In 2011, before getting WWFed by Dwayne Wade in the second round, effectively ending the Celtics season, he diced up the Knicks, making them look foolish.  Anyone remember Toney Douglas?  He was once considered to be a tough, young defensive specialist at the guard position.  Never heard from again after Rondo got through with him in that series.

In 2012, well, that's recent history.  I doubt I have to remind anyone how he took the team on his shoulders and got them back into the series against the mighty Heat, and eventually took them to seven. 

Never mind how he carried the team to a game seven victory against the scrappy Sixers.

For some reason, though, there's a large contingent of fans who have desperately been hoping to get rid of him for years. 

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what he does over the course of the next seven years as a Celtic.  But, then again, I'm just a fan boy, a delusion homer who isn't interested in trading him off for a less than 1% chance at landing an 18 year old, Canadian high school kid.

I must be crazy.   

[bobbyv]

Rajon Rondo:

4 consecutive all star games.

4 consecutive all defensive teams.

Top ten in MVP voting twice.

Top five in Defensive Player of the Year voting twice.  Top ten three times.

One time 3rd time All NBA.

I checked with BBallTim, and he assures me he didn't get a vote in any of those awards.  Without the help of the "fanboys" here at Celticsblog, that's an impressive resume through six and half years of work. 

Despite all these honors,  the consensus opinion among the faithful is that our point guard stinks in the regular season, coasting through, saving it up for when it really matters . . . the playoffs.

As solid as our young point guard has been in the regular season, the playoffs is when he really shines.  Luckily, he's had plenty of opportunities to perform on the biggest stage in his short career. 

In 2009, he outperformed the Rookie of the Year, soon to be youngest MVP in the history of the game in a thrilling first round, seven game series.

In 2010, he was the best player on the court in a series against the King's heavily favored Cleveland Cavaliers.  He almost single handed sent Lebron packing out of Cleveland.

In 2011, before getting WWFed by Dwayne Wade in the second round, effectively ending the Celtics season, he diced up the Knicks, making them look foolish.  Anyone remember Toney Douglas?  He was once considered to be a tough, young defensive specialist at the guard position.  Never heard from again after Rondo got through with him in that series.

In 2012, well, that's recent history.  I doubt I have to remind anyone how he took the team on his shoulders and got them back into the series against the mighty Heat, and eventually took them to seven. 

Never mind how he carried the team to a game seven victory against the scrappy Sixers.

For some reason, though, there's a large contingent of fans who have desperately been hoping to get rid of him for years. 

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what he does over the course of the next seven years as a Celtic.  But, then again, I'm just a fan boy, a delusion homer who isn't interested in trading him off for a less than 1% chance at landing an 18 year old, Canadian high school kid.

I must be crazy.

TP

[soap07]

  Would your opinion of Horford change if he'd taken the Hawks to the ecf and the finals in the last 3-4 years?

Not really. And it's also a moot point, since Rondo didn't take the Celtics to the ECF and Finals in the last 3-4 years.

[BballTim]

Rajon Rondo:

4 consecutive all star games.

4 consecutive all defensive teams.

Top ten in MVP voting twice.

Top five in Defensive Player of the Year voting twice.  Top ten three times.

One time 3rd time All NBA.

I checked with BBallTim, and he assures me he didn't get a vote in any of those awards.  Without the help of the "fanboys" here at Celticsblog, that's an impressive resume through six and half years of work. 

  Technically I could have voted for the all-star teams, but I managed to avoid that task.

  Also, don't forget leading all point guards in rebounds and assists in each of the last 2 regular seasons, which is pretty impressive for someone who's coasting.

[BballTim]

  Would your opinion of Horford change if he'd taken the Hawks to the ecf and the finals in the last 3-4 years?

Not really. And it's also a moot point, since Rondo didn't take the Celtics to the ECF and Finals in the last 3-4 years.

  He did. I'd guess the team's been more successful than you've noticed.

[CoachBo]

I don't recall anyone suggesting that the sole purpose of trading Rondo would be to tank.  I think the argument is essentially, Rondo is Boston's best player and has the most value, thus you will get the most for him and secondly, because Rondo is good enough to keep Boston from being truly bad, but not good enough to make Boston a realistic contender with the current set of players that there is no point in keeping him around unless Boston goes all in (otherwise Boston is just mediocre).

Exactly.

[CoachBo]

He's in his prime and this team is nowhere near competing... and we are too cash-strapped to add a superstar to build around even if KG and Pierce are removed from the books.  You're more than likely looking at a lotto team next year even if we hang onto Rondo. 

In a way, it's the same rationalization that Memphis had when they gave away Pau Gasol to the Lakers.  "We suck with him... we'll suck without him... why pay him if we're going to suck either way?"... I'd argue they should have gotten more assets during that trade... but Marc Gasol is certainly no slouch, and they've build a solid playoff team since dumping Pau.

If Rondo was 22 years old, I'd hang onto him, continue to acquire assets, tried to land a superstar to lead the team (Rondo will never be the #1 guy on a title team) and hope for the best... that would give me a good 8 years to build a team involving Rondo.   But as-is... Rondo is 28 years old and coming off major surgery... he's probably not going to be "right" until he's 29 years old in 2014 (that's assuming he ever fully recovers) ... You build teams around draft picks, young assets and cap space... not a 29 year old player who is unlikely to even make an all-star team in the foreseeable future (too much competition in the east for the guard slot)...

So you absolutely trade him if you can land a bluechipper on his rookie deal (like the above Derrick Favors idea someone brought up) or a Top 5 pick. That's far more conducive to a rebuild.

TP...
You can rebuilt a team based in one player that never has been leader of the team or showing lidership. Plus the age...28...

  That's assuming you ignore the comments of every player or coach or front office person associated with the team when you decide that the player isn't a leader.

Rondo's a good leader.  He's a good player.  I think Al Horford is a good leader and good player too... but I don't anticipate there ever being a champion with Al Horford as the best player. 

  Would your opinion of Horford change if he'd taken the Hawks to the ecf and the finals in the last 3-4 years?

This gross exaggeration re: Rondo always makes me laugh.

Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, et al. say hello.

This comparison is precisely what I mean when I mention conflating individual players' contributions. What's the old saying? If you repeat a fallacy often enough, people begin to believe it.

[soap07]

  Would your opinion of Horford change if he'd taken the Hawks to the ecf and the finals in the last 3-4 years?

Not really. And it's also a moot point, since Rondo didn't take the Celtics to the ECF and Finals in the last 3-4 years.

  He did. I'd guess the team's been more successful than you've noticed.

Saying Rondo carried to the Celtics to the 2010 Finals is like saying Chris Bosh carried the Heat to the Finals last year.

[pearljammer10]

Rajon Rondo:

4 consecutive all star games.

4 consecutive all defensive teams.

Top ten in MVP voting twice.

Top five in Defensive Player of the Year voting twice.  Top ten three times.

One time 3rd time All NBA.

I checked with BBallTim, and he assures me he didn't get a vote in any of those awards.  Without the help of the "fanboys" here at Celticsblog, that's an impressive resume through six and half years of work. 

Despite all these honors,  the consensus opinion among the faithful is that our point guard stinks in the regular season, coasting through, saving it up for when it really matters . . . the playoffs.

As solid as our young point guard has been in the regular season, the playoffs is when he really shines.  Luckily, he's had plenty of opportunities to perform on the biggest stage in his short career. 

In 2009, he outperformed the Rookie of the Year, soon to be youngest MVP in the history of the game in a thrilling first round, seven game series.

In 2010, he was the best player on the court in a series against the King's heavily favored Cleveland Cavaliers.  He almost single handed sent Lebron packing out of Cleveland.

In 2011, before getting WWFed by Dwayne Wade in the second round, effectively ending the Celtics season, he diced up the Knicks, making them look foolish.  Anyone remember Toney Douglas?  He was once considered to be a tough, young defensive specialist at the guard position.  Never heard from again after Rondo got through with him in that series.

In 2012, well, that's recent history.  I doubt I have to remind anyone how he took the team on his shoulders and got them back into the series against the mighty Heat, and eventually took them to seven. 

Never mind how he carried the team to a game seven victory against the scrappy Sixers.

For some reason, though, there's a large contingent of fans who have desperately been hoping to get rid of him for years. 

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what he does over the course of the next seven years as a Celtic.  But, then again, I'm just a fan boy, a delusion homer who isn't interested in trading him off for a less than 1% chance at landing an 18 year old, Canadian high school kid.

I must be crazy.

TP

Bravo sir. Double TP.

[aporel#18]

The key is flexibility around the 2014 draft. And you want to adquire/develop assets, to be able to go through different scenarios.

Rondo's value is low right now. You need him playing and showing he's 100% to entice other teams to give you the best in return. I'd say Celtics need to let him recover, start playing him after the ASG, a few minutes at first, and increase minutes to showcase him at full strength the last month of the regular season. The same goes for Sully.

Then, around the 2014 draft you can extend his contract, or trade him to get a top 3 pick, but not now. You don't need to trade him to tank when you can just keep him off the court.

Of course, this is a limiting factor on what you can do with KG and Pierce. If they stay, you need to get Rondo back in the court as soon as you can, and you won't get a high pick in 2014. But that's life.

If you are trading Terry, Lee or Bass, you need to get back expiring contracts and picks, to gain flexibility.

You don't need to get the 1st pick through full tank mode, just remember the Celtics are not the luckiest with ping pong balls. What you need is the assets, expiring contracts/cap space, and picks to be able to get a star player or a top 3 pick. Flexibility and assets.