1996 chicago bulls vs. 2013 miami heat (all healthy) who wins?

[Who]

I think Kukoc would be huge in this series. A much better player than an old Shane Battier or an even older Rashard Lewis. Miami have no answer to him.

I'd expect Kukoc to play around 30 minutes a night off the bench and for the Bulls limited centers to only get 15-20 per game. Against Haslem. Mostly Longley.

Dennis Rodman is good for anywhere from the high teens to low twenties in rebounds per game against Chris Bosh and this Miami side. He would absolutely kill them on the backboards.

Chicago were lethal at creating extra possessions. Both through dominant rebounding and the capacity to force turnovers. This Miami side has nothing on them. To beat Chicago, you have to able to compete with them in this area. A team like the 1986 Celtics armed with the greatest frontcourt of All-Time certainly fits that bill. This Miami side? No chance.

I actually think Bosh would do an ok job on Kukoc.  Bosh is a lot quicker and more athletic than he is given credit for.

Rodman on the boards would definitely pose problems for the Heat, but Miami is so offensively efficient that I don't think it would matter.  The Heat's top 3 scorers are all well over 50% from the field.  And if you look at something like eFG% only Norris Cole is under 50% on the entire team (of those that played at least half of the games).  Lebron and Battier were well over 60%.  The Bulls for example in eFG% have only 5 rotations player over 50% and 3 of their starters (Harper, Rodman, Longley) were below 50%.  The Heat are also a great turnover generating team like the Bulls.  When you make your shots and create turnovers, you don't need to rebound as well.  Also of rotation players, Chris Anderson is the second best offensive rebounder in that series and Haslem is the third best (obviously Rodman is 1st).  In fact if you look at something like TRB%, Rodman is the clear leader among rotation players (which also probably skews some stats), but Haslem is 2nd, Anderson is 3rd, James is 4th, and Bosh is 5th from both teams.  So sure, the Worm is a rebounding machine, but the Heat aren't exactly filled with bums like so many indicate, they just spread the boards out so no one has a huge number and because they hit so many shots they don't have near the offensive rebounding opportunities that other teams do.

Look at the combined turnover + rebounding differential of both teams.

Miami is a +137 in turnovers and a -124 in rebounds. Almost neutral. They rely on their efficiency offensively and defensively to win games but are a fairly mediocre team in terms of possession creation.

Chicago was a +230 in turnovers and a +541 in rebounds for a combined score of +771. Or in a per game basis, 9.4 extra possessions per game.

Chicago were one of the greatest teams at all time at creating extra possessions as well as being the top ranked offensive team and defensive team in the league that season.

It is night and day. Huge difference. Each team's capacity to create extra possessions.

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For me, this is the single most underrated attribute of the 1996 Bulls team. Their capacity to create extra possessions. So incredibly dominant. Those differentials are massive.

[wdleehi]

I went Bulls because of the defense Rodman and Pippen could play on Lebron.

[Who]

I think Kukoc would be huge in this series. A much better player than an old Shane Battier or an even older Rashard Lewis. Miami have no answer to him.

I'd expect Kukoc to play around 30 minutes a night off the bench and for the Bulls limited centers to only get 15-20 per game. Against Haslem. Mostly Longley.

Dennis Rodman is good for anywhere from the high teens to low twenties in rebounds per game against Chris Bosh and this Miami side. He would absolutely kill them on the backboards.

I actually think Bosh would do an ok job on Kukoc.  Bosh is a lot quicker and more athletic than he is given credit for.

Yes, I think Bosh could defend Kukoc reasonably well too.

I figured Bosh would be on Dennis Rodman though. I was thinking of Kukoc at PF alongside Rodman at C when Miami goes small with Shane Battier or Rashard Lewis at forward alongside LeBron James. Asking Battier or Rashard to try and keep Rodman off the boards would be murder. Even more so than asking Bosh to try and do so.

They could keep Haslem in to check Rodman. Let Bosh defend Kukoc. Or C.Andersen (Rodman). Go big. However, if that was their plan to counter Kukoc, it would be hard for Miami to get their small-ball lineups on the floor for any prolonged period of time.

[bdm860]

For people who think the Bulls would win, especially in 4-5.  Then how do you think the 2013 Heat would stack up against the ’96 Sonics or ’97 or ’98 Jazz, or even the ’98 Pacers?

While with sports, I know it doesn’t always work if Team A can beat Team B, and Team B can beat team C, then A can beat C.  But it’s usually somewhat comparable.

The Sonics pushed the ’96 Bulls to 6, and won 64 games (good for 13th all time, at the time).
And the Jazz pushed the ’97 and ’98 Bulls (basically the same team) to 6, with just about every game being decided by only a few points, and the same with the Pacers (except they went to 7).

If the question was asked, could the current Heat beat the ’96 Sonics, ’97-’98 Jazz, or ’98 Pacers, I wonder how many people would say yes.

So I’m just saying, if you think the current Heat could beat those teams, it would be hard for me to say the Bulls could easily beat the Heat.

I actually think it would be a really interesting matchup because the Heats 3 best players match up perfectly with the Bulls 3 best players.  We don’t have the Jordan vs Hakeem mis-matched superstar quandary here.

I think it's at least a very close 6 game series.  Though I love Jordan's (and the Bulls) ability in the clutch, so I think they would come out on top, still wouldn't be surprised to see it go either way.

Gotta love the Rodman/Birdman sideshow though.

I wonder how Jordan would react when Wade tries to dislocate his arm 

[Mr Green]

The 86 Celtics would win!

I think MJ would own LeBron and he would be crying.  I think Rodman would if he is on that bulls team  would give them fits.  You might even see him put on back hard.  I think the Bulls could lock them down.  Jordan could guard Wade, Pippen would guard LeBron and Rodman would take down Bosh.  I think the Bulls would run their legs off.  No one could start Jordan but I think Rodman and Pippen would cause problems for LeBron.  LeBron on Jordan might work though but it would hurt his offense severely.

I think you are greatly underselling just how much faster, stronger, and athletic the Heat are as a whole.  Rodman couldn't guard Lebron in 96, which means he would be on Bosh, which leaves Longley trying to guard Haslem, Anderson, Battier, or Lewis.  Lebron is bigger, stronger, and faster than Pippen, which means he would have his way with him wherever he wanted.  Even Wade would be a problem for Jordan at that point in time as a result of his speed.  Chalmers would blow by Harper every single time down the floor.  Certainly on the other end of the floor a lot of the same things would be present, but Rodman and Longley aren't exactly offensive juggernauts, which would allow Bosh and Haslem a lot more free reign to help Wade guard MJ or Pip and Chalmers guard Harper (in the post).  Lebron would be fine on either Pip or MJ defensively and wouldn't need the help.  I could also see the Heat going big with Wade, James, Battier, Lewis, and Bosh.  That would allow Wade to guard Harper, Lebron on MJ, and Battier on Pippen, which would create huge match-up problems for the Bulls on the defensive end.

This Heat team, if it can close this season out, will go down as one of the greatest teams in history.  It has 3 HOFers in their prime (including one of the best players ever and who very well may go down as the best player ever when he is done), another HOFer at the tail end, and a lot of very strong depth and role players.

Gary Payton in his prime couldn't shut MJ down in the 1996 finals, so what chance would a 2013 Wade have on his bum knee? Especially if this hypothetical game were played under current rules and Wade couldn't hand check.

MJ would just trash talk LBJ until he cried and went home.

actually Jordan was well below his averages in that series.  The problem the Sonics had, was Payton expended all of his energy on defense and was just awful offensively.  I mean truly awful.  The two games the Sonics won, Payton was good offensively.  Had Payton been able to play both ends of the floor, the Sonics might have very well won that series.  He just couldn't do anything on offense.

Yes, if 27 year old Gary Payton couldn't keep up with 32 year old MJ then 31 year old Dwayne Wade and his bad knee shouldn't trouble him. No?

[Moranis]

I think Kukoc would be huge in this series. A much better player than an old Shane Battier or an even older Rashard Lewis. Miami have no answer to him.

I'd expect Kukoc to play around 30 minutes a night off the bench and for the Bulls limited centers to only get 15-20 per game. Against Haslem. Mostly Longley.

Dennis Rodman is good for anywhere from the high teens to low twenties in rebounds per game against Chris Bosh and this Miami side. He would absolutely kill them on the backboards.

Chicago were lethal at creating extra possessions. Both through dominant rebounding and the capacity to force turnovers. This Miami side has nothing on them. To beat Chicago, you have to able to compete with them in this area. A team like the 1986 Celtics armed with the greatest frontcourt of All-Time certainly fits that bill. This Miami side? No chance.

I actually think Bosh would do an ok job on Kukoc.  Bosh is a lot quicker and more athletic than he is given credit for.

Rodman on the boards would definitely pose problems for the Heat, but Miami is so offensively efficient that I don't think it would matter.  The Heat's top 3 scorers are all well over 50% from the field.  And if you look at something like eFG% only Norris Cole is under 50% on the entire team (of those that played at least half of the games).  Lebron and Battier were well over 60%.  The Bulls for example in eFG% have only 5 rotations player over 50% and 3 of their starters (Harper, Rodman, Longley) were below 50%.  The Heat are also a great turnover generating team like the Bulls.  When you make your shots and create turnovers, you don't need to rebound as well.  Also of rotation players, Chris Anderson is the second best offensive rebounder in that series and Haslem is the third best (obviously Rodman is 1st).  In fact if you look at something like TRB%, Rodman is the clear leader among rotation players (which also probably skews some stats), but Haslem is 2nd, Anderson is 3rd, James is 4th, and Bosh is 5th from both teams.  So sure, the Worm is a rebounding machine, but the Heat aren't exactly filled with bums like so many indicate, they just spread the boards out so no one has a huge number and because they hit so many shots they don't have near the offensive rebounding opportunities that other teams do.

Look at the combined turnover + rebounding differential of both teams.

Miami is a +137 in turnovers and a -124 in rebounds. Almost neutral. They rely on their efficiency offensively and defensively to win games but are a fairly mediocre team in terms of possession creation.

Chicago was a +230 in turnovers and a +541 in rebounds for a combined score of +771. Or in a per game basis, 9.4 extra possessions per game.

Chicago were one of the greatest teams at all time at creating extra possessions as well as being the top ranked offensive team and defensive team in the league that season.

It is night and day. Huge difference. Each team's capacity to create extra possessions.

----------------------------------------------

For me, this is the single most underrated attribute of the 1996 Bulls team. Their capacity to create extra possessions. So incredibly dominant. Those differentials are massive.

The rebounding numbers are skewed a fairly large amount because Miami is so good offensively.  A lot of Miami's rebounding deficiency is in offensive rebounds where they grabbed just 676 to their opponents 921, a difference of 245.  Miami actually grabbed more defensive rebounds their opponents by 121.   When you hit almost half of your shots (Miami was 49.6%, Chicago was 47.8%), you just don't have the offensive rebounding opportunities that other teams have and thus don't get offensive rebounds like other teams do.  Additionally, Miami played at a very slow pace.  They took the fewest FGA's in the NBA and their opponents took the 10th fewest, so there weren't nearly as many rebounding opportunities as say a team like the Lakers who had about 800 more shots taken in their games than were taken in Heat games.

Miami is the most efficient offensive team that I ever recall when you factor in the amount of 3 pointers that are taken today.  Miami led the league in team FG% by 1.5% and was second only to the Warriors in 3PT% (0.7% behind them).  Miami was the third highest points per game, yet had the fewest FGA's in the league (and it wasn't because of an inordinate amount of FTA's as Miami was 10th in those).  In fact Boston had the second fewest attempts but still shot 111 more FG's than Miami (Miami scored 6.4 more points per game than Boston). 

I think Miami's offensive efficiency would be a huge factor in this series.  This would be the type of series that would go back and forth and would be an epic battle.  I just think Miami's far superior athleticism would weigh out in the end.  They are the Bulls worst possible match-up.  Size and skill at the wings and enough size and depth to pose problems on both ends of the floor.

[Moranis]

The 86 Celtics would win!

I think MJ would own LeBron and he would be crying.  I think Rodman would if he is on that bulls team  would give them fits.  You might even see him put on back hard.  I think the Bulls could lock them down.  Jordan could guard Wade, Pippen would guard LeBron and Rodman would take down Bosh.  I think the Bulls would run their legs off.  No one could start Jordan but I think Rodman and Pippen would cause problems for LeBron.  LeBron on Jordan might work though but it would hurt his offense severely.

I think you are greatly underselling just how much faster, stronger, and athletic the Heat are as a whole.  Rodman couldn't guard Lebron in 96, which means he would be on Bosh, which leaves Longley trying to guard Haslem, Anderson, Battier, or Lewis.  Lebron is bigger, stronger, and faster than Pippen, which means he would have his way with him wherever he wanted.  Even Wade would be a problem for Jordan at that point in time as a result of his speed.  Chalmers would blow by Harper every single time down the floor.  Certainly on the other end of the floor a lot of the same things would be present, but Rodman and Longley aren't exactly offensive juggernauts, which would allow Bosh and Haslem a lot more free reign to help Wade guard MJ or Pip and Chalmers guard Harper (in the post).  Lebron would be fine on either Pip or MJ defensively and wouldn't need the help.  I could also see the Heat going big with Wade, James, Battier, Lewis, and Bosh.  That would allow Wade to guard Harper, Lebron on MJ, and Battier on Pippen, which would create huge match-up problems for the Bulls on the defensive end.

This Heat team, if it can close this season out, will go down as one of the greatest teams in history.  It has 3 HOFers in their prime (including one of the best players ever and who very well may go down as the best player ever when he is done), another HOFer at the tail end, and a lot of very strong depth and role players.

Gary Payton in his prime couldn't shut MJ down in the 1996 finals, so what chance would a 2013 Wade have on his bum knee? Especially if this hypothetical game were played under current rules and Wade couldn't hand check.

MJ would just trash talk LBJ until he cried and went home.

actually Jordan was well below his averages in that series.  The problem the Sonics had, was Payton expended all of his energy on defense and was just awful offensively.  I mean truly awful.  The two games the Sonics won, Payton was good offensively.  Had Payton been able to play both ends of the floor, the Sonics might have very well won that series.  He just couldn't do anything on offense.

Yes, if 27 year old Gary Payton couldn't keep up with 32 year old MJ then 31 year old Dwayne Wade and his bad knee shouldn't trouble him. No?

He doesn't have to for Miami to beat the Bulls.  James would shut down Pippen.  Bosh would contain Kukoc.  Chicago's offense would be Jordan vs. Wade with help from Chalmers and Haslem.  They wouldn't get into a groove.  Seattle had no one that could guard Pippen and he had a great series.  Miami wouldn't have that problem. 

[slamtheking]

1986 Celtics.

Actually any of the C's championship teams from the 80's over either

[Mr Green]

The 86 Celtics would win!

I think MJ would own LeBron and he would be crying.  I think Rodman would if he is on that bulls team  would give them fits.  You might even see him put on back hard.  I think the Bulls could lock them down.  Jordan could guard Wade, Pippen would guard LeBron and Rodman would take down Bosh.  I think the Bulls would run their legs off.  No one could start Jordan but I think Rodman and Pippen would cause problems for LeBron.  LeBron on Jordan might work though but it would hurt his offense severely.

I think you are greatly underselling just how much faster, stronger, and athletic the Heat are as a whole.  Rodman couldn't guard Lebron in 96, which means he would be on Bosh, which leaves Longley trying to guard Haslem, Anderson, Battier, or Lewis.  Lebron is bigger, stronger, and faster than Pippen, which means he would have his way with him wherever he wanted.  Even Wade would be a problem for Jordan at that point in time as a result of his speed.  Chalmers would blow by Harper every single time down the floor.  Certainly on the other end of the floor a lot of the same things would be present, but Rodman and Longley aren't exactly offensive juggernauts, which would allow Bosh and Haslem a lot more free reign to help Wade guard MJ or Pip and Chalmers guard Harper (in the post).  Lebron would be fine on either Pip or MJ defensively and wouldn't need the help.  I could also see the Heat going big with Wade, James, Battier, Lewis, and Bosh.  That would allow Wade to guard Harper, Lebron on MJ, and Battier on Pippen, which would create huge match-up problems for the Bulls on the defensive end.

This Heat team, if it can close this season out, will go down as one of the greatest teams in history.  It has 3 HOFers in their prime (including one of the best players ever and who very well may go down as the best player ever when he is done), another HOFer at the tail end, and a lot of very strong depth and role players.

Gary Payton in his prime couldn't shut MJ down in the 1996 finals, so what chance would a 2013 Wade have on his bum knee? Especially if this hypothetical game were played under current rules and Wade couldn't hand check.

MJ would just trash talk LBJ until he cried and went home.

actually Jordan was well below his averages in that series.  The problem the Sonics had, was Payton expended all of his energy on defense and was just awful offensively.  I mean truly awful.  The two games the Sonics won, Payton was good offensively.  Had Payton been able to play both ends of the floor, the Sonics might have very well won that series.  He just couldn't do anything on offense.

Yes, if 27 year old Gary Payton couldn't keep up with 32 year old MJ then 31 year old Dwayne Wade and his bad knee shouldn't trouble him. No?

He doesn't have to for Miami to beat the Bulls.  James would shut down Pippen.  Bosh would contain Kukoc.  Chicago's offense would be Jordan vs. Wade with help from Chalmers and Haslem.  They wouldn't get into a groove.  Seattle had no one that could guard Pippen and he had a great series.  Miami wouldn't have that problem.

Pippen wasn't exactly a scrub, I think it's a little presumptuous to consider that he would simply be nullified by James. The same can be said for Bosh 'containing' Kukoc.

Conversely, Pippen and Rodman could both arguably keep up defensively with Magic during his prime, so why not James in his prime?

There's also no one on the Miami roster that could realistically prevent Rodman from rebounding at will, Miami theoretically can't score or fastbreak if they can't get the ball.

There's also big picture considerations like Spoelstra trying to match wits with Jackson; can Miami's help defense keep up with the triangle offense? I personally don't think so.

[Moranis]

The 86 Celtics would win!

I think MJ would own LeBron and he would be crying.  I think Rodman would if he is on that bulls team  would give them fits.  You might even see him put on back hard.  I think the Bulls could lock them down.  Jordan could guard Wade, Pippen would guard LeBron and Rodman would take down Bosh.  I think the Bulls would run their legs off.  No one could start Jordan but I think Rodman and Pippen would cause problems for LeBron.  LeBron on Jordan might work though but it would hurt his offense severely.

I think you are greatly underselling just how much faster, stronger, and athletic the Heat are as a whole.  Rodman couldn't guard Lebron in 96, which means he would be on Bosh, which leaves Longley trying to guard Haslem, Anderson, Battier, or Lewis.  Lebron is bigger, stronger, and faster than Pippen, which means he would have his way with him wherever he wanted.  Even Wade would be a problem for Jordan at that point in time as a result of his speed.  Chalmers would blow by Harper every single time down the floor.  Certainly on the other end of the floor a lot of the same things would be present, but Rodman and Longley aren't exactly offensive juggernauts, which would allow Bosh and Haslem a lot more free reign to help Wade guard MJ or Pip and Chalmers guard Harper (in the post).  Lebron would be fine on either Pip or MJ defensively and wouldn't need the help.  I could also see the Heat going big with Wade, James, Battier, Lewis, and Bosh.  That would allow Wade to guard Harper, Lebron on MJ, and Battier on Pippen, which would create huge match-up problems for the Bulls on the defensive end.

This Heat team, if it can close this season out, will go down as one of the greatest teams in history.  It has 3 HOFers in their prime (including one of the best players ever and who very well may go down as the best player ever when he is done), another HOFer at the tail end, and a lot of very strong depth and role players.

Gary Payton in his prime couldn't shut MJ down in the 1996 finals, so what chance would a 2013 Wade have on his bum knee? Especially if this hypothetical game were played under current rules and Wade couldn't hand check.

MJ would just trash talk LBJ until he cried and went home.

actually Jordan was well below his averages in that series.  The problem the Sonics had, was Payton expended all of his energy on defense and was just awful offensively.  I mean truly awful.  The two games the Sonics won, Payton was good offensively.  Had Payton been able to play both ends of the floor, the Sonics might have very well won that series.  He just couldn't do anything on offense.

Yes, if 27 year old Gary Payton couldn't keep up with 32 year old MJ then 31 year old Dwayne Wade and his bad knee shouldn't trouble him. No?

He doesn't have to for Miami to beat the Bulls.  James would shut down Pippen.  Bosh would contain Kukoc.  Chicago's offense would be Jordan vs. Wade with help from Chalmers and Haslem.  They wouldn't get into a groove.  Seattle had no one that could guard Pippen and he had a great series.  Miami wouldn't have that problem.

Pippen wasn't exactly a scrub, I think it's a little presumptuous to consider that he would simply be nullified by James. The same can be said for Bosh 'containing' Kukoc.

Conversely, Pippen and Rodman could both arguably keep up defensively with Magic during his prime, so why not James in his prime?

There's also no one on the Miami roster that could realistically prevent Rodman from rebounding at will, Miami theoretically can't score or fastbreak if they can't get the ball.

There's also big picture considerations like Spoelstra trying to match wits with Jackson; can Miami's help defense keep up with the triangle offense? I personally don't think so.

Pippen wasn't a scrub, but he also wasn't an all timer.  He also showed when Jordan retired, he wasn't a #1, and very few teams that faced the Bulls had enough defensive man power to guard him and MJ. 

Rodman was 34 in 96 and had lost a lot.  He was no longer capable of guarding a guy like James or Magic.  In his early days, absolutely, but not by 96. 

As I've said I think Miami would have a lot of Wade, James, Battier, Haslem/Anderson, and Bosh lineups, where Battier would be on Pippen and James would be on Jordan.  Bosh would take on Kukoc (or Longley) and be fine and Haslem/Anderson could leave Rodman to help defend (Wade could also help defend a bit more as Harper/Kerr were good shooters but not much else).  Haslem and Anderson would also do a decent job of keeping Rodman off the boards as both of them could match his toughness and are strong and nasty.  Rodman would still get his 14/15 boards, but most of those would be defensive in nature.

It would be a good series, but I just don't see Chicago keeping Miami from scoring (you see it works both ways, how is Chicago going to defend all of Miami's weapons) and would fully expect Miami to win.

[Mr Green]

The 1996 Bulls also went on to win the next two championships, so I don't think they were 'past it' by any means.

I also don't think Haslem and Anderson have any realistic chance keeping Rodman off the boards. Keep in mind he averaged 16.1 rebounds in 1996/97 and 15 boards in 1997/1998.

Rodman, Pippen and Jordan were all on the NBA all defensive first team in 1995/96. Pippen and Jordan were also on the NBA all defensive first team in 1996/97 and 1997/98.

[timobusa]

Rodman and Pippen alone would destroy Bosh, Wade and Haslem Defensively. He won't let those guys get good looks, he would do a good job on Lebroid too.

Then you add Michael Jordan in the mix.
Its all downhill for Miami. Lol

[Finkelskyhook]

The heat.  All about the officiating because the teams would be pretty evenly matched.

Jordan would be really confused out there seeing somebody else getting calls...Because he was the only one officiated differently.

Wade essentially gets officiated as ridiculously as Jordan did....No rules at all apply to the messiah.

Heat in 5.

[ScoobyDoo]

Jordan's "points scored" and "defense played" on Dwayne Wade would render Wade basically a non factor. And Jordan would have "nothing" to do with Wade's punk cheap shots either - the dude used to go after Oakley when he hit Jordan with cheap shots.

Next issue - Lebron versus Rodman and Pippen. LeBron meet Hell. Hell meet Lebron.

I don't care how "good" people say LeBron is, those two defenders in their prime would tear Lebron to pieces physically and more importantly,mentally. LeBron would have a very hard time getting around Pippen or Jordan and he couldn't handle the physical play from Rodman, he'd disappear. Hell, Tony Allen used to give LeBron fits on the wing when we had him.

Bosh would actually probably fare the best against the Bulls because they wouldn't care if he notched 20 - they'd be focused on icing LeBron - series over, six games "maximum".

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

LeBron isn't shutting down Pippen... he can't shut down Jeff Green! He can't shut down PP, Melo, and Durant. Pippen was better offensively than given credit!


With that said, I hate(d) both of them but I think Bulls easily... especially if it's playoff type games/officiating.