We should have traded Avery Bradley while he was hot

[LarBrd33]

Sure.  I was campaigning hard to trade Bradley + Bass + Sully + Lee/Terry for an upgraded big.  Seemed at the time like Big Al or Josh Smith might be a possibility since both are likely to flee at season end. 

Then the idea was to move Pierce to starting SG and start Jeff at his natural Sf... leaving the following possible lineup:

PG - Rondo, SG - Pierce, SF - Green, PF - KG, C - Big Al

... people scoffed at the idea of starting Pierce at SG, but that's clearly what ended up happening eventually anyways.   Rondo of course got injured.  And I doubt anyone was taking that weak package for a stud like Smith or Big Al.

[ManUp]

I've never been in love with the idea of Avery as a long term starter alongside Rondo. This season has only made that worse. AB is just a really weak offensive player. He's a poor slasher & finisher, he doesn't have range on his jumper, and he can't dribble the ball without looking down. Add all that to the fact that he is just 6'2 and I'm not sure he qualifies as a starter.

[JHTruth]

Avery has easily been the most overrated player in Celticsland for some time now. Frankly Courtney Lee is better than he is.

Avery is a solid 3rd guard in the rotation, beyond that is asking way way too much of him

[kozlodoev]

Sure.  I was campaigning hard to trade Bradley + Bass + Sully + Lee/Terry for an upgraded big.  Seemed at the time like Big Al or Josh Smith might be a possibility since both are likely to flee at season end. 

Then the idea was to move Pierce to starting SG and start Jeff at his natural Sf... leaving the following possible lineup:

PG - Rondo, SG - Pierce, SF - Green, PF - KG, C - Big Al

... people scoffed at the idea of starting Pierce at SG, but that's clearly what ended up happening eventually anyways.   Rondo of course got injured.  And I doubt anyone was taking that weak package for a stud like Smith or Big Al.

It ended up happening because we ran out of options, not because it's some amazing long-term solution.

[Kane3387]

AB will be fine next year with Rondo.

As sentimental as some are, if KG retires, then it's time to get something in return for the Captain.

[EJPLAYA]

What I am hearing on here is that AB misses Rondo. That he is better at the 2 guard spot. I am not disagreeing with that. The problem however is that if those two are our backcourt starters for the future we will look much like this playoff team. No scoring and ugly slow paced basketball. Rondo doesn't push the ball. AB doesn't push the ball. Neither can shoot from the outside consistently or is a threat to beat their man 1-1. Top that off with the fact that we have no offensive bigs except for KG who will likely be gone after this season, and we are left with the 3 and 4 spot. Green clearly is the idea for the C's at the 3 spot. While I have high hopes for him he is definitely not a scorer like Pierce was. He is off and on as we have seen. Our scoring 4 is Brandon Bass? Love the guy, but he is a bench player as well.

In a nutshell people are going to be happy with a 75-80 pt a night scoring team who isn't going to have KG in the lineup to give them a low post defender? Maybe Melo turns into an NBA defender, but most likely not. That my friends is back to 10+ years of lottery dwelling hoping we somehow get lucky and draft a franchise player. Been there. Not fun.

[mmmmm]

What I am hearing on here is that AB misses Rondo. That he is better at the 2 guard spot. I am not disagreeing with that. The problem however is that if those two are our backcourt starters for the future we will look much like this playoff team. No scoring and ugly slow paced basketball. Rondo doesn't push the ball. AB doesn't push the ball. Neither can shoot from the outside consistently or is a threat to beat their man 1-1. Top that off with the fact that we have no offensive bigs except for KG who will likely be gone after this season, and we are left with the 3 and 4 spot. Green clearly is the idea for the C's at the 3 spot. While I have high hopes for him he is definitely not a scorer like Pierce was. He is off and on as we have seen. Our scoring 4 is Brandon Bass? Love the guy, but he is a bench player as well.

In a nutshell people are going to be happy with a 75-80 pt a night scoring team who isn't going to have KG in the lineup to give them a low post defender? Maybe Melo turns into an NBA defender, but most likely not. That my friends is back to 10+ years of lottery dwelling hoping we somehow get lucky and draft a franchise player. Been there. Not fun.

1) AB misses Rondo.  Check.
2) AB is better on offense as an off-the-ball cutter/slasher/spot-up shooter 'SG'.  Check.
3) AB has never, ever gone through an NBA training camp.   You missed this one.

The last thing is very important.   AB's overall offensive game development is immature because it simply hasn't had proper time OR training to fully develop - and that goes for his role as EITHER SG or 'back up' PG.

I don't think anyone is happy with a '75-80 point a night scoring team'.    But it is what it is right now.   Hell, I'd be thrilled if we scored 80 either of the last two games ...

I disagree with your contention that a backcourt of Rondo + Bradley will look anything like the team we have on the floor right now.   It did not look like this last spring and it did not look like this in January.

Rondo and Bradley played together 432.1 minutes in the second half of last season and posted a Net Rating of +14.2 per 100 possessions and a 106.5 ORtg.  A stifling 92.3 DRtg.

They played together another 249.4 minutes this year, which a more flawed team around them.  They still posted a stifling 98.4 DRtg, but the offense was not as good - just 94.4.   But considering Bradley was coming off double-shoulder surgery and a long layoff, that's probably not too surprising.  Also, the fact is, this year's sample of the two together also happens to correlate with Paul Pierce going into one of the worst shooting slumps he's had in years - and most of their minutes together were with Pierce and Bass (who was also slumping) on the floor as well.

People love to blame Rondo for our offensive woes, but the fact is, the infamous '6 game losing streak' right before he was injured had far more to do with Pierce suddenly shooting just 28 of 86 (32.6%) including just 3 of 25 (12%!!!) from 3PT land during that losing streak.

I suspect that if they'd gotten more run together this year, with Bass & Pierce eventually coming out of those slumps, that their ORtg would have climbed right back up.  Not to mention the slow but steady emergence of Green's game.

Over the larger sample of the remainder of the year, Avery's ORtgs with each of those guys has been solid:

w/Pierce:  1130.6 minutes,  106.2
w/Green:   767.3 minutes,  106.3
w/Bass:   1112.3 minutes, 104.7

Given all that's gone on this year, with AB having to play out of position and the odd lineups we keep throwing out there, I"m not expecting all that much scoring out of Bradley this year.  But I'm not at all worried about Bradley's offense in the long run.

This year has been just a completely bizarre series of bad karma events for the Celtic's roster.   Hell, the starting lineup they are using in these playoffs did not even log 40 minutes together in the entire regular season!

I'm just going to enjoy however far they can make it.

[CelticConcourse]

I still want to see more Rondo&Bradley on the court at the same time. Yearp.

[dark_lord]

bradley is only effective when he can be the 2 guard.  when he plays the point, he is marcus banks

he and rondo together make a nice tandem.  hopefully they can both remain healthy once rondo is back.

[GreenFaith1819]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSKIq3siHHI

I'd rather hold onto AB.

As DL stated he and Rondo make a NICE tandem.

That vid makes me miss Rondo even more.

Get well, Rajon.

[kozlodoev]

I understand that Bradley may be better with Rondo. What is worrisome is that he turns into a complete dud without him. That doesn't exactly make him a solid building block.

[slamdunk]

Avery has easily been the most overrated player in Celticsland for some time now.

I nominate JaJuan Johnson.

[bfrombleacher]

Playing out of position.

Playing with two blown shoulders.

At 22 and a half years old, he's logging serious big boy time in the playoffs.

[Boris Badenov]

I've never been in love with the idea of Avery as a long term starter alongside Rondo. This season has only made that worse. AB is just a really weak offensive player. He's a poor slasher & finisher, he doesn't have range on his jumper, and he can't dribble the ball without looking down. Add all that to the fact that he is just 6'2 and I'm not sure he qualifies as a starter.

I agree completely about the Rondo pairing, though I think AB would be great alongside a scoring PG (like Irving or Steph Curry).

I just don't think you can pair Bradley with Rondo and be successful given that neither one is a good 3 point shooter.

Success for an NBA team increasingly involves an offense geared around shooting a lot of 3s. If neither starting guard can shoot 3s well, a team is at a huge disadvantage pursuing that strategy.

I do still think AB has a lot of value to the right team (like CLE or GSW, for example). I think we could get back decent value for him even after this year.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Sure.  I was campaigning hard to trade Bradley + Bass + Sully + Lee/Terry for an upgraded big.  Seemed at the time like Big Al or Josh Smith might be a possibility since both are likely to flee at season end. 

Then the idea was to move Pierce to starting SG and start Jeff at his natural Sf... leaving the following possible lineup:

PG - Rondo, SG - Pierce, SF - Green, PF - KG, C - Big Al

... people scoffed at the idea of starting Pierce at SG, but that's clearly what ended up happening eventually anyways.   Rondo of course got injured.  And I doubt anyone was taking that weak package for a stud like Smith or Big Al.

It ended up happening because we ran out of options, not because it's some amazing long-term solution.

Not only was pretty much our only option, it just isn't a good spot for PP! Our offense is our main problem but what killed us again last night is what Felton was able to do, carve PP and us up! PP is not a SG, defensively! AB is a SG and should not be forced to play PG but he's all we have (Doc didn't give TWILL a good shot at it yet and we didn't pick up a real PG... our biggest mistake).