draft option: Trade 16th for multiple picks

[Tr1boy]

Come on!!! Enough with the "if you look at the video you can see...." stuff.

DraftExpress, NBADraft, Scout and a host of other sites all have highlight video of every possible pick. They are highlights. All you are going to see are the players good points. Everyone looks like a superstar in those things.

Watch the games and then tell me about how good some of these players are. Their game film consists of them having difficulty with college players that will never be pros and doing the good things too. THAT is how you get a solid feel for these players, not with internet vids of them making their best plays they ever made.

of course. You can't just go by highlights film only. I've stated that i've seen actual games from start to finish to come up with my analysis of some of these guys.

There are highlights of some guys by draftexpress that make them look like million bucks but i wouldn't ever draft. Guys like Bj Young, Cj Leslie etc.

Also the difference between a true 1st round pick vs late 1st or early 2nd is , the ability to make impact or lead a team. Also consider how they will project in the nba. Guys like Green didn't do a great job leading his team to anywhere. But he certainly did all he could , by scoring a crapload of points. Just think though in a nba team, how much he will be able to help out that team. Carmichael was a leader for Ill st. but prob did more than he should. In a nba team, he will stay within his capabilities but still help out a team.

I'm not stating these guys are surefire nba guys , but they have as much as chance as a slow/soft Olynyk or Avg skilled Plumlee. Thats the story of 2013 draft

[nickagneta]

Combines will tell a lot. I'm not speculating on who will be there or any good until I see the combine stats and scouting reports of the games there and the workouts each player has.

[ManUp]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

[nickagneta]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

I would do the same but move up to get Michael Carter Williams. With him Rondo and Bradley, the C's would have maybe the best overall back court in the league for many years and each of the three could play with the other.

Imagine 6'6" MCW  playing PG but guarding SGs while Bradley plays SG but guards the PG. Or a Rondo MCW back court.

If they could move up to the area around 10, grab MCW, they could easily package off at least two or three of their remaining back court players to get a big. With MCW there wouldn't be a need for Lee AND Terry AND Williams AND Crawford. Keep Lee and trade everyone else.

[slamtheking]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

Ledo's not ready.  should have at least played a year (probably 2) of college ball first.  Kid had some money-hungry family members apparently pushing him to go pro ASAP.  hate to see this kid wind up another story of a player pushed into a cash grab and sliding to the second round with no guaranteed $ (and no return to college possible)

[ManUp]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

I would do the same but move up to get Michael Carter Williams. With him Rondo and Bradley, the C's would have maybe the best overall back court in the league for many years and each of the three could play with the other.

Imagine 6'6" MCW  playing PG but guarding SGs while Bradley plays SG but guards the PG. Or a Rondo MCW back court.

If they could move up to the area around 10, grab MCW, they could easily package off at least two or three of their remaining back court players to get a big. With MCW there wouldn't be a need for Lee AND Terry AND Williams AND Crawford. Keep Lee and trade everyone else.

MCW sounds good to me. That back court could be ridiculous defensively, but shooting would be an issue. The success of that back court all depends on how his and Bradley's shot progress. I'm willing to take a chance.

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

Ledo's not ready.  should have at least played a year (probably 2) of college ball first.  Kid had some money-hungry family members apparently pushing him to go pro ASAP.  hate to see this kid wind up another story of a player pushed into a cash grab and sliding to the second round with no guaranteed $ (and no return to college possible)

You don't pick Ledo for what he is you pick him for what he could be. Same as any high potential prospect. If Ledo was ready he could be a top ten pick this year.

[mmmmm]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

I would do the same but move up to get Michael Carter Williams. With him Rondo and Bradley, the C's would have maybe the best overall back court in the league for many years and each of the three could play with the other.

Imagine 6'6" MCW  playing PG but guarding SGs while Bradley plays SG but guards the PG. Or a Rondo MCW back court.

If they could move up to the area around 10, grab MCW, they could easily package off at least two or three of their remaining back court players to get a big. With MCW there wouldn't be a need for Lee AND Terry AND Williams AND Crawford. Keep Lee and trade everyone else.

Do you feel strongly that MCW is a better bet than Terrence Williams, though?   He's also 6' 6" (actually an inch taller than MCW who is really only 6' 5"), has more natural PG skills and is big enough (~220 lb compared to just ~175 for MCW) and strong enough to play SGs and even small SFs.   In other words, he should, in theory pair up with RR & AB in the same ways that you describe.    He's only 25 and will come into camp with a half-season of experience in Doc's system.   He's a former 11th pick overall and we already have him on a minimum contract.

MCW currently projects to be about the 11th pick in this, a weaker draft.   

I'm not saying MCW wouldn't be better.  But convince me.   All rookies are a bit of a crap shoot.  Is he worth trading up to get, considering that we already have T-Will?

[nickagneta]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

I would do the same but move up to get Michael Carter Williams. With him Rondo and Bradley, the C's would have maybe the best overall back court in the league for many years and each of the three could play with the other.

Imagine 6'6" MCW  playing PG but guarding SGs while Bradley plays SG but guards the PG. Or a Rondo MCW back court.

If they could move up to the area around 10, grab MCW, they could easily package off at least two or three of their remaining back court players to get a big. With MCW there wouldn't be a need for Lee AND Terry AND Williams AND Crawford. Keep Lee and trade everyone else.

Do you feel strongly that MCW is a better bet than Terrence Williams, though?   He's also 6' 6" (actually an inch taller than MCW who is really only 6' 5"), has more natural PG skills and is big enough (~220 lb compared to just ~175 for MCW) and strong enough to play SGs and even small SFs.   In other words, he should, in theory pair up with RR & AB in the same ways that you describe.    He's only 25 and will come into camp with a half-season of experience in Doc's system.   He's a former 11th pick overall and we already have him on a minimum contract.

MCW currently projects to be about the 11th pick in this, a weaker draft.   

I'm not saying MCW wouldn't be better.  But convince me.   All rookies are a bit of a crap shoot.  Is he worth trading up to get, considering that we already have T-Will?

MCW has fabulous floor vision and passing ability. He is and always will be a true PG. Terrence Williams is a SF, who has an okay handle for a SG buit who's best position is guarding PGs.

To me its not even close.

MCW's defense is superior in every way, he averaged almost 3 steals a game out of the Orange zone. In a man to man situation he probably garners even more.

MCW's passing ability and floor vision is as good as any top flight PG in the league today. MCW assisted on over 28% of the Orange baskets this year. he averaged over 7 APG while the Orange as a whole only averaged 14.

MCW is a floor general highly capable of running an offense because he has been doing that his whole life. Williams is still trying to learn the position.

Now factor in age and MCW's much higher upside, especially in his developing offensive game, and you see where MCW is the clear choice over the two. Also, having a son at Syracuse, word is MCW is a pretty sharp individual and word in NBA circles is Williams is a bit of a knucklehead.

To me, that makes checkmate, MCW wins.

[mmmmm]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

I would do the same but move up to get Michael Carter Williams. With him Rondo and Bradley, the C's would have maybe the best overall back court in the league for many years and each of the three could play with the other.

Imagine 6'6" MCW  playing PG but guarding SGs while Bradley plays SG but guards the PG. Or a Rondo MCW back court.

If they could move up to the area around 10, grab MCW, they could easily package off at least two or three of their remaining back court players to get a big. With MCW there wouldn't be a need for Lee AND Terry AND Williams AND Crawford. Keep Lee and trade everyone else.

Do you feel strongly that MCW is a better bet than Terrence Williams, though?   He's also 6' 6" (actually an inch taller than MCW who is really only 6' 5"), has more natural PG skills and is big enough (~220 lb compared to just ~175 for MCW) and strong enough to play SGs and even small SFs.   In other words, he should, in theory pair up with RR & AB in the same ways that you describe.    He's only 25 and will come into camp with a half-season of experience in Doc's system.   He's a former 11th pick overall and we already have him on a minimum contract.

MCW currently projects to be about the 11th pick in this, a weaker draft.   

I'm not saying MCW wouldn't be better.  But convince me.   All rookies are a bit of a crap shoot.  Is he worth trading up to get, considering that we already have T-Will?

MCW has fabulous floor vision and passing ability. He is and always will be a true PG. Terrence Williams is a SF, who has an okay handle for a SG buit who's best position is guarding PGs.

To me its not even close.

MCW's defense is superior in every way, he averaged almost 3 steals a game out of the Orange zone. In a man to man situation he probably garners even more.

MCW's passing ability and floor vision is as good as any top flight PG in the league today. MCW assisted on over 28% of the Orange baskets this year. he averaged over 7 APG while the Orange as a whole only averaged 14.

MCW is a floor general highly capable of running an offense because he has been doing that his whole life. Williams is still trying to learn the position.

Now factor in age and MCW's much higher upside, especially in his developing offensive game, and you see where MCW is the clear choice over the two. Also, having a son at Syracuse, word is MCW is a pretty sharp individual and word in NBA circles is Williams is a bit of a knucklehead.

To me, that makes checkmate, MCW wins.

Woah!  MCW sounds awesome - you make him sound like he should be a lottery pick!   I would guess that his poor shooting percentages are what is projecting him out of the top 10.

In which NBA circles have you heard the word that T-Williams is a bit of a knucklehead?

I know that he didn't work out all that well with The Little General as his coach - but that doesn't make him particularly unique.   Nor does that make him a knucklehead - though it may have stigmatized him with some in the NBA.   Pitino loved him at Louisville.

Good point that he is still learning PG - but that is pretty clearly the position that Doc & Danny seem to project him at. 

And he has shown some talent as a facilitator.   His final season at Louisville, his pace adjusted assist rate was a very good 5.8-per 40.   In the NBA he posted 6.1 & 5.7 numbers in 2011 (Nets) and 2012 (Kings), respectively and 4.7 this year with the C's. 
Not even remotely close to the 8+ numbers that MCW posted at Syracuse, of course, and not at all to be confused with the assist rates that Rondo posts.   But still, those numbers would look pretty good for most 'normal' point guards.

T-Will is without question a much better shooter than MCW has shown.

Age really doesn't strike me as an advantage here for MCW.   TW is only 4 years older.  T-Will more experience and is more of a known quantity (in the sense that rookies are very rarely anything but gambles).

I'm not seeing 'checkmate', here.   At least nothing that makes it compelling to trade up to get MCW.

[slamtheking]

still not seeing anything great at 16 this year. 

my preference is still for Danny trying to move the pick for a future 1st in either 2014 or 2015.  maybe use one of the excess players in the backcourt to sweeten the deal. 

Would presume that the 16th this year may only net the (projected) 24th pick or later next year in any deal and possibly the 20th or later in 2015 when the holdovers from 2014 come out. 

those drafts would be a good time to have extras for either reloading or combining in a deal to move up in the order.

[CoachBo]

Like many have said this is a weak 0-10 draft, but with an excellent closely talented 10 to mid 2nd round prospects.

So if the celts dont get their one or two guys they are looking for at 16th, and the 16th pick can't get us much in the trade market, should we then lessen the risk and trade our 1st for a late 1st and early 2nd or two early 2nds plus?? (if another team who has these picks have their guy at 16th)

The celts will have Sully and Rondo back, but overall lack depth and KG/PP might retire as soon as next year. Melo project is not looking promising.

I have a list of late 1st, 2nd round picks that could step in and immediately help out next year.  A few i would be ecstatic to grab , in no order

1. Erick Green 6'4 combo guard - Saw a few games of him this year and at times i thought i was seeing Ray Allen and Barbosa in one player. Scoring champ of last year + efficiency stats. The knock on him is needing more strength and a few other little nitpicks. But overall if we need back a guy that plays like Barbosa but can shoot, this guy looks like he is it. There is a good chance he gets chosen much earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhzwLXF7fVA

2. Jackie Carmichael 6'9 pf/c - Saw a few games of him recently and you would think you are seeing lebron james out there on the court. Not all out skill wise, but body, athleticism, quickness, intensity and strength. Skills are underrated, but whats more interesting is his ability to play defense, rebound at a high rate, character and also reminds you of sully the way he bullies people around. At worse i see a hard working guy, that will rebound at a high rate, block shots, and just help you wear down opponents on boh ends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M96Dt5swZq8

3. Myck Kabongo 6'1 pg - Another solid prospect. Top notch quickness, athleticism. A true PG and good feel for the game. Scoring like Rondo is mainly driving and hitting tough finishes. Shooting is work in progress, but not bad already. Would solve the issue of having a legit off the bench pg and insurance pg in case Rondo is out for a while longer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YscxR6zUEw

4. Tony Snell 6'7 sf/sg - One of the best catch and shoot players in the ncaa. Nice 3 pt shooter and shoots about 85 on the FT line.  Can also drive for a dunk or layup plus play very good defense. But his bread and butter is running around like a headless chicken utilizing screens , then catch and shoot in one instance. We just don't have neither a 3 pt shooter or a guy that can utilize screens like Snell can. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5otYNtJfwo

for now these are some of my top late 1st/early 2nd guys. Do you like the trade idea for multiple picks? or at 16th there will someone there that can help us out. Any other late 1st/early 2nd prospects you like

Totally disagree with you about Carmichael. He isn't even the best 4 man in the Valley - that designation goes easily to Carl Hall.

Terrible, terrible feet. Far below average as a defender, doesn't compete under the glass. only crude post-up skills.

NO interest whatsoever in Jackie Carmichael. He will never play a day in the association.

[nickagneta]

Trade the pick for a high second rounder(to use on Ricky Ledo) and a 2015 or beyond 1st. After pick 12 or 13 the guys in this draft look like second rounders. This draft is terrible.

I would do the same but move up to get Michael Carter Williams. With him Rondo and Bradley, the C's would have maybe the best overall back court in the league for many years and each of the three could play with the other.

Imagine 6'6" MCW  playing PG but guarding SGs while Bradley plays SG but guards the PG. Or a Rondo MCW back court.

If they could move up to the area around 10, grab MCW, they could easily package off at least two or three of their remaining back court players to get a big. With MCW there wouldn't be a need for Lee AND Terry AND Williams AND Crawford. Keep Lee and trade everyone else.

Do you feel strongly that MCW is a better bet than Terrence Williams, though?   He's also 6' 6" (actually an inch taller than MCW who is really only 6' 5"), has more natural PG skills and is big enough (~220 lb compared to just ~175 for MCW) and strong enough to play SGs and even small SFs.   In other words, he should, in theory pair up with RR & AB in the same ways that you describe.    He's only 25 and will come into camp with a half-season of experience in Doc's system.   He's a former 11th pick overall and we already have him on a minimum contract.

MCW currently projects to be about the 11th pick in this, a weaker draft.   

I'm not saying MCW wouldn't be better.  But convince me.   All rookies are a bit of a crap shoot.  Is he worth trading up to get, considering that we already have T-Will?

MCW has fabulous floor vision and passing ability. He is and always will be a true PG. Terrence Williams is a SF, who has an okay handle for a SG buit who's best position is guarding PGs.

To me its not even close.

MCW's defense is superior in every way, he averaged almost 3 steals a game out of the Orange zone. In a man to man situation he probably garners even more.

MCW's passing ability and floor vision is as good as any top flight PG in the league today. MCW assisted on over 28% of the Orange baskets this year. he averaged over 7 APG while the Orange as a whole only averaged 14.

MCW is a floor general highly capable of running an offense because he has been doing that his whole life. Williams is still trying to learn the position.

Now factor in age and MCW's much higher upside, especially in his developing offensive game, and you see where MCW is the clear choice over the two. Also, having a son at Syracuse, word is MCW is a pretty sharp individual and word in NBA circles is Williams is a bit of a knucklehead.

To me, that makes checkmate, MCW wins.

Woah!  MCW sounds awesome - you make him sound like he should be a lottery pick!   I would guess that his poor shooting percentages are what is projecting him out of the top 10.

In which NBA circles have you heard the word that T-Williams is a bit of a knucklehead?

I know that he didn't work out all that well with The Little General as his coach - but that doesn't make him particularly unique.   Nor does that make him a knucklehead - though it may have stigmatized him with some in the NBA.   Pitino loved him at Louisville.

Good point that he is still learning PG - but that is pretty clearly the position that Doc & Danny seem to project him at. 

And he has shown some talent as a facilitator.   His final season at Louisville, his pace adjusted assist rate was a very good 5.8-per 40.   In the NBA he posted 6.1 & 5.7 numbers in 2011 (Nets) and 2012 (Kings), respectively and 4.7 this year with the C's. 
Not even remotely close to the 8+ numbers that MCW posted at Syracuse, of course, and not at all to be confused with the assist rates that Rondo posts.   But still, those numbers would look pretty good for most 'normal' point guards.

T-Will is without question a much better shooter than MCW has shown.

Age really doesn't strike me as an advantage here for MCW.   TW is only 4 years older.  T-Will more experience and is more of a known quantity (in the sense that rookies are very rarely anything but gambles).

I'm not seeing 'checkmate', here.   At least nothing that makes it compelling to trade up to get MCW.

MCW has been in the lottery as a pick and in a whole bunch of top 10 selections for well over a month. I have seen him projected as high as pick 8.

Also, MCW's shooting numbers from this season are almost exactly the same as Williams career numbers. I don't see Williams as being a much better shooter in the least. Both aren't all that good at it.

Also, the knucklehead comment was based on articles I have read saying he showed up late for practices and brought a lot of off court problems into the locker room. Dee Brown, Rick Adelman and others have had problems with him. There's a reason he was in China and talent wasn't the problem.

That said, he doesn't have the talent that Carter-Williams has and Carter-Williams doesn't bring the knuckleheadedness that Williams has been known to have.

I also find it strange that Williams seems to be lower on the depth chart than Crawford even though his skills are needed more than Crawford. But then again, Doc did go out of his way to praise Crawford and say he was buying into the defense.

[D Dub]

Jeff Green, Avery Bradley & the 16th pick
for

Kevin Love


too much?  maybe. 
i'd overspend for Love because he helps most in areas where we have biggest problems; Rebounding & 3pt shooting

[Lucky17]

Jeff Green, Avery Bradley & the 16th pick
for

Kevin Love


too much?

Not enough.

[CelticConcourse]

Jeff Green, Avery Bradley & the 16th pick
for

Kevin Love


too much?

Not enough.

Yeah, if we're gonna make that deal the Wolves are gonna have to add Steamer