Culture of Team Needs to Change

[CelticConcourse]

To me the culture of the team is perfect. Established veterans mentor the younger players, stressing defense first and then scoring. It is this exact style of culture that has helped the spurs to continually be good for such a long stretch of time.

I don't see news reports of arguments often, either. They probably hang out after games, and joke around (so I would think)

[gpap]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say that the current culture is cancerous or anything like that.

What I was referring to is more of a "driven" culture where regular season games aren't taken off and each game is looked at as a "must-win."

In other words, you know how we always hear about the "switch being flipped on or off"?

The change I was suggesting is for there to not have to be a switch because the team is hungry to win every game.

Granted, when you're an older team like the Celts, this is alot more difficult, but that's what I was referring to.

I wasn't saying that the current culture of the team is toxic or anything like that (not that I would know anyway, lol.)

[connor]

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to say that the current culture is cancerous or anything like that.

What I was referring to is more of a "driven" culture where regular season games aren't taken off and each game is looked at as a "must-win."

In other words, you know how we always hear about the "switch being flipped on or off"?

The change I was suggesting is for there to not have to be a switch because the team is hungry to win every game.

Granted, when you're an older team like the Celts, this is alot more difficult, but that's what I was referring to.

I wasn't saying that the current culture of the team is toxic or anything like that (not that I would know anyway, lol.)

That type of attitude is taken on by young teams because of how important seeding and match ups are for them come playoff time. When you are running out a team of vets with so much playoff experience its a lot less important who you play and where you play him than it is are you healthy and rested.

Basically what you want is for the team to put more emphasis on the regular season and not solely focused on the playoffs, which is admittedly a lot more fun for fans. But the only reason the attitude changes is because our team will be worse than it is now and therefore have to work harder for every win and every chance they have to move up in the seedings will be far more important.

This team is sending out lackluster line-ups because they just want to get to the playoffs in good shape and then go for broke there. Not as much fun throughout the season, but you know pretty much that with our roster we are going to at least make the playoffs and be able to put up a fight. If we move KG and PP for younger assets that aren't as good but have potential, we might not even make the playoffs, let alone have the chance to advance very far.

[kozlodoev]

I agree, culture needs to change. Let's get them some books, I hear paperback classics can still be found for $3 a pop.

[LarBrd33]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

Boston proved from Jan 27->March 18th that they could hang with any team in the league... they went 16-7 without Rondo.  They beat some solid teams like Miami, Atlanta, Indiana, Chicago, Denver... fell short against OKC and lost by 2 against Miami without KG ...

That's a plenty strong sample size.  It was enough to form an identity.  "Freedom Offense" with pesky defense. 

Afterwards, there was nothing at all left to prove.  I sincerely don't get why this concept is so hard for people to grasp.  Our best player is a 36 year old big man.  Unquestionably our only objective right now is to make the playoffs and be as healthy as possible on Game 1.   Seeding really don't matter.  We'd be better off going down swinging in the 1st round vs Miami than dealing with the Knicks in Round 1.

If you're reading into what's been happening for the past few weeks, you apparently have no sense of the big picture.  The regular season ended in Mid March for this team.  They don't give a crap what happens until the playoffs start.  I've been watching this team long enough to recognize when they are mailing it in.  And they have every reason to mail it in until the games start to matter again.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Unless they add a hungry superstar, the drive in the regular season will stay the same. 


The Celtics leaders are guys that pace themselves through the regular season before they turn it on in the post season.

[/b]

i want to see that this year, but i have my doubts

[connor]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

How are you seriously going to respond to someone without reading the entirety of their post? And why even admit that?

Nothing wrong with your response, but come on man. It'd take you like 30 seconds to finish reading the rest of the post.

How is anybody supposed to respect anything you have to say if you aren't even going to take the time to read the other person's argument fully? And you then take the time to write a response to the post you didn't read thats basically the same length as the OP's.

[LarBrd33]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

How are you seriously going to respond to someone without reading the entirety of their post? And why even admit that?

Nothing wrong with your response, but come on man. It'd take you like 30 seconds to finish reading the rest of the post.

How is anybody supposed to respect anything you have to say if you aren't even going to take the time to read the other person's argument fully? And you then take the time to write a response to the post you didn't read thats basically the same length as the OP's.

conner, I didn't bother reading your entire response.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.


Kidding.  I went back and read gpap's original post.  It's similar to a lot of other posts I've read on here.  But I really enjoy the part where he thinks we need to get rid of Pierce and Kg to get back to the culture of winning we had with that 66 win team... lol... Boston without KG and Pierce wouldn't even make the playoffs.  They are definitely our two most important players.  Rondo a distant 3rd... then Jeff Green.  Our entire culture is defined by those guys... especially KG.  Getting rid of him wouldn't somehow improve the "culture".

Inevitably those two guys will retire... and then we can begin the long winter ... decade+ of lotto land rebuilding.  For the time being, we're a scrappy playoff team that nobody wants to play against.  That's been our identity since Shaq's last game and we ceased to be legitimate contenders.

[Celtics18]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

How are you seriously going to respond to someone without reading the entirety of their post? And why even admit that?

Nothing wrong with your response, but come on man. It'd take you like 30 seconds to finish reading the rest of the post.

How is anybody supposed to respect anything you have to say if you aren't even going to take the time to read the other person's argument fully? And you then take the time to write a response to the post you didn't read thats basically the same length as the OP's.

conner, I didn't bother reading your entire response.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.


Kidding.  I went back and read gpap's original post.  It's similar to a lot of other posts I've read on here.  But I really enjoy the part where he thinks we need to get rid of Pierce and Kg to get back to the culture of winning we had with that 66 win team... lol... Boston without KG and Pierce wouldn't even make the playoffs.  They are definitely our two most important players.  Rondo a distant 3rd... then Jeff Green.  Our entire culture is defined by those guys... especially KG.  Getting rid of him wouldn't somehow improve the "culture".

Inevitably those two guys will retire... and then we can begin the long winter ... decade+ of lotto land rebuilding.  For the time being, we're a scrappy playoff team that nobody wants to play against.  That's been our identity since Shaq's last game and we ceased to be legitimate contenders.

Heading into this year's playoffs, Rondo is probably our twelfth most important player, just ahead of DJ White and Fab Melo, but he's our most important player for the future.  In last year's playoffs he was definitely at least tied for most important player, as he was in the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that. 

[CelticConcourse]

Heading into this year's playoffs, Rondo is probably our twelfth most important player, just ahead of DJ White and Fab Melo

I wouldn't be surprised if Rondo's very presence shifted a game or two in the Playoffs. Just being in the locker room makes the team play better.

[LarBrd33]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

How are you seriously going to respond to someone without reading the entirety of their post? And why even admit that?

Nothing wrong with your response, but come on man. It'd take you like 30 seconds to finish reading the rest of the post.

How is anybody supposed to respect anything you have to say if you aren't even going to take the time to read the other person's argument fully? And you then take the time to write a response to the post you didn't read thats basically the same length as the OP's.

conner, I didn't bother reading your entire response.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.


Kidding.  I went back and read gpap's original post.  It's similar to a lot of other posts I've read on here.  But I really enjoy the part where he thinks we need to get rid of Pierce and Kg to get back to the culture of winning we had with that 66 win team... lol... Boston without KG and Pierce wouldn't even make the playoffs.  They are definitely our two most important players.  Rondo a distant 3rd... then Jeff Green.  Our entire culture is defined by those guys... especially KG.  Getting rid of him wouldn't somehow improve the "culture".

Inevitably those two guys will retire... and then we can begin the long winter ... decade+ of lotto land rebuilding.  For the time being, we're a scrappy playoff team that nobody wants to play against.  That's been our identity since Shaq's last game and we ceased to be legitimate contenders.

Heading into this year's playoffs, Rondo is probably our twelfth most important player, just ahead of DJ White and Fab Melo, but he's our most important player for the future.  In last year's playoffs he was definitely at least tied for most important player, as he was in the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that.

nah


KG has been the most important player on this team every playoff... excluding 2009 when we were clearly the favorites to win it all and barely made it out of the 1st round without him.

Our offense has relied on Pierce every year.   Rondo put up big minutes and big stats last year, but it was still a team that mainly relied on the contributions of KG and Pierce.  We only go as far as those two take us.  When they are gone... it gun get ugly...

We're fine heading into the playoffs.  Got our two best players presumably healthy, Green making big offense contributions and hopefully big defensive contributions from Lee and Bradley.  We aren't a legitimate threat to win a title, but this team hasn't been a legitimate threat to win a title since Shaq retired and we were left with one real big man.

[Celtics18]

Heading into this year's playoffs, Rondo is probably our twelfth most important player, just ahead of DJ White and Fab Melo

I wouldn't be surprised if Rondo's very presence shifted a game or two in the Playoffs. Just being in the locker room makes the team play better.

That's why I put him at twelfth.  He may be higher, but I didn't put him ahead of Crawford and Williams who might actually contribute on the court in a game or two. 

[BballTim]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

How are you seriously going to respond to someone without reading the entirety of their post? And why even admit that?

Nothing wrong with your response, but come on man. It'd take you like 30 seconds to finish reading the rest of the post.

How is anybody supposed to respect anything you have to say if you aren't even going to take the time to read the other person's argument fully? And you then take the time to write a response to the post you didn't read thats basically the same length as the OP's.

conner, I didn't bother reading your entire response.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.


Kidding.  I went back and read gpap's original post.  It's similar to a lot of other posts I've read on here.  But I really enjoy the part where he thinks we need to get rid of Pierce and Kg to get back to the culture of winning we had with that 66 win team... lol... Boston without KG and Pierce wouldn't even make the playoffs.  They are definitely our two most important players.  Rondo a distant 3rd... then Jeff Green.  Our entire culture is defined by those guys... especially KG.  Getting rid of him wouldn't somehow improve the "culture".

Inevitably those two guys will retire... and then we can begin the long winter ... decade+ of lotto land rebuilding.  For the time being, we're a scrappy playoff team that nobody wants to play against.  That's been our identity since Shaq's last game and we ceased to be legitimate contenders.

Heading into this year's playoffs, Rondo is probably our twelfth most important player, just ahead of DJ White and Fab Melo, but he's our most important player for the future.  In last year's playoffs he was definitely at least tied for most important player, as he was in the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that.

nah


KG has been the most important player on this team every playoff... excluding 2009 when we were clearly the favorites to win it all and barely made it out of the 1st round without him.

Our offense has relied on Pierce every year.   Rondo put up big minutes and big stats last year, but it was still a team that mainly relied on the contributions of KG and Pierce.  We only go as far as those two take us.  When they are gone... it gun get ugly...

  KG's clearly our best player on defense. Rondo's just as clearly our best player on offense, especially in the playoffs. Last year Rondo scored or assisted a higher percentage of his team's points than anyone else in the league. In the 2012 the team was outscored by .4 ppg with PP in the game and Rondo on the bench and they outscored opponents by 10.7 ppg with Rondo playing and PP on the bench. Numbers were worse in the 2011 playoffs, with the Celts outscoring their opponents by 4.1 ppg with Rondo playing and PP on the bench, but with PP playing and Rondo on the bench they were outscored by 25 ppg.

  I know you're not a fan of Rondo but it's fairly mind-boggling that someone could watch Rondo spending last year's playoffs generating (scoring or assisting) about as many points a game as LeBron James and come to the conclusions that you do about his importance to the team.

[Celtics18]

gpap... didn't bother reading your entire post.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.

How are you seriously going to respond to someone without reading the entirety of their post? And why even admit that?

Nothing wrong with your response, but come on man. It'd take you like 30 seconds to finish reading the rest of the post.

How is anybody supposed to respect anything you have to say if you aren't even going to take the time to read the other person's argument fully? And you then take the time to write a response to the post you didn't read thats basically the same length as the OP's.

conner, I didn't bother reading your entire response.  Sorry.  But I'm still going to say you're dead wrong.


Kidding.  I went back and read gpap's original post.  It's similar to a lot of other posts I've read on here.  But I really enjoy the part where he thinks we need to get rid of Pierce and Kg to get back to the culture of winning we had with that 66 win team... lol... Boston without KG and Pierce wouldn't even make the playoffs.  They are definitely our two most important players.  Rondo a distant 3rd... then Jeff Green.  Our entire culture is defined by those guys... especially KG.  Getting rid of him wouldn't somehow improve the "culture".

Inevitably those two guys will retire... and then we can begin the long winter ... decade+ of lotto land rebuilding.  For the time being, we're a scrappy playoff team that nobody wants to play against.  That's been our identity since Shaq's last game and we ceased to be legitimate contenders.

Heading into this year's playoffs, Rondo is probably our twelfth most important player, just ahead of DJ White and Fab Melo, but he's our most important player for the future.  In last year's playoffs he was definitely at least tied for most important player, as he was in the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that, and the playoffs before that.

nah


KG has been the most important player on this team every playoff... excluding 2009 when we were clearly the favorites to win it all and barely made it out of the 1st round without him.

Our offense has relied on Pierce every year.   Rondo put up big minutes and big stats last year, but it was still a team that mainly relied on the contributions of KG and Pierce.  We only go as far as those two take us.  When they are gone... it gun get ugly...

We're fine heading into the playoffs.  Got our two best players presumably healthy, Green making big offense contributions and hopefully big defensive contributions from Lee and Bradley.  We aren't a legitimate threat to win a title, but this team hasn't been a legitimate threat to win a title since Shaq retired and we were left with one real big man.

In 2010, we don't get past the Cavs without Rondo, who absolutely took over that series. 

In 2011, despite being injured for much of the season, Rondo was crucial in our spanking of the Knicks.  When he went down in the third quarter of game three against the Heat, it pretty much assured that we had no chance of coming back in that series.  We may not have won if Rondo had had two good arms, but we would most likely have been able to keep the series closer.

Last year, we don't get by the Sixers without Rondo, and we definitely wouldn't have taken the Heat to seven without him. 

I'm not trying to downplay the contributions of Pierce and KG.  Those two legends have clearly been important to our success, but calling Rondo a "distant third" behind them is just plain ridiculous.   

[tony3]

It's just age.  KG and Pierce can't physically play at the level or amount of minutes every night that they used to.

If KG and Pierce could play 36 MPG with occasionally 40+ minute outbursts with no side effects we would be seeing that and we would be winning a lot more games.  They just can't physically do it anymore.  It's not like two HOF competitors suddenly lost the desire to win.


However I will say I think there is a big issue with Rondo's mindset.  Having an obvious "playoff Rondo vs regular season Rondo" is a BIG issue for a team pinning their hopes on him being their best player.  Rondo needs to play better on a consistent basis.  Not more minutes, but better and become a reliable weapon as a spot up shooter so other guys can handle the ball.