you mean the bench cut a double digit lead to 2

[Ogaju]

yet Doc did not allow them to finish the comeback?

I did not get to see the game, but is this true? Because if it is, it fits right into my criticism of doc for never relying on his bench players.

He relies to heavily on the star players, and that is why his stars usually run out of gas, or suffer injuries.

There is a reason that Celtics are always plagued with injuries to the star players.

[kgainez]

yet Doc did not allow them to finish the comeback?

I did not get to see the game, but is this true? Because if it is, it fits right into my criticism of doc for never relying on his bench players.

He relies to heavily on the star players, and that is why his stars usually run out of gas, or suffer injuries.

There is a reason that Celtics are always plagued with injuries to the star players.

I do not recall if it was 4 or 2, but yes
T-Will hit all his shots and Crawford hit some crazy shots and got to the FT line.
Not to mention DJ White got 4 Blocks and Shav got 4 rebounds against Z-bo.
Then Shav got hit in the nose, got a bloody nose and sat...BB came back in.
And I think with about a minute and some change left, he sat DJ White and PP came back in and I want to say he sat T Will for JET.

I think Doc overthunk it and decided he wanted to win badly.
He should've let that unit stay in. With 8 minutes left in the 4th, down almost 20, he sat PP. And then they went on that run...MEM only had 4 points.

I will say that PP played mainly decoy. And JET had a chance with a foul on a threepointer...but JET and PP didn't deserve or earn that time.

[Ogaju]

why isnt Doc caled out more when he makes these questionable substitutions. He is used to messing with the momentum of bench players.

[kgainez]

why isnt Doc caled out more when he makes these questionable substitutions. He is used to messing with the momentum of bench players.

you get talked about horribly when you question Doc. Take a look at the latest Krook thread smh.

[Donoghus]

why isnt Doc caled out more when he makes these questionable substitutions. He is used to messing with the momentum of bench players.

you get talked about horribly when you question Doc. Take a look at the latest Krook thread smh.

Umm, yeah that's not necessarily true.  There are criticisms of Doc on here.  Some with more credibility than others.  He's not above criticism.  But people are also not going to just rollover in flimsy critiques of Doc, either.  Just like almost any player on the Celtics.

[BballTim]

why isnt Doc caled out more when he makes these questionable substitutions. He is used to messing with the momentum of bench players.

you get talked about horribly when you question Doc. Take a look at the latest Krook thread smh.

  Was that the one where he wanted to flood our starting lineup with our 10 day contract players?

[Lightskinsmurf]

Didn't doc say something along the lines of, "I don't give out mins, they earn them"? Well, that's clearly a lie.

[LooseCannon]

Here's what the timeline of substitutions looks like.


With 7:50 left, DJ White enters the game for Jason Terry between Pierce free throws.

At 7:46 left in the 4th and the Celtics down 95-77, Shavlik Randolph enters the game for Paul Pierce, joining Williams, Crawford, Green, and White.

This lineup stays together until 2:36, when Bass comes in for Randolph with the score 100-91. 

Bass-White-Green-Williams-Crawford is the lineup until 23.3 left, with the score 104-100.  After a Boston rebound and timeout, Pierce and Terry come in for Williams and White, an obvious move to put better shooters on the floor.

At 0:18.9, as Crawford shoots free throws, Williams and Bradley come in for Terry and Bass, an obvious move to put in defenders who can force a turnover.

Crawford commits a foul at 0:18.5 and Bayless shoots two.  Bass and Wilcox come in for Crawford and Williams, an obvious move to put in bigger guys who have a better chance of rebounding a possible missed free throw.  (Bayless makes both.)

The Celtics call timeout and Terry and Crawford come in for Bradley and Wilcox.

After Green gets fouled at 0:14.7 and goes to the line, Williams and Bradley come in for Pierce and Terry.  Once again, Terry goes out and defenders come in.

At 0:12.1, Z. Randolph is fouled.  Wilcox comes in for Crawford between free throws.  If you lost track, the Celtics on the floor now is Wilcox, Green, Bradley, Williams, and Bass.

After Randolph makes his pair, the Celtics are down 108-104.  The Celtics once again make a standard offense-for-defense substitution, bringing in Pierce, Crawford, and Terry and sending Bradley, Wilcox, and Williams.

Terry shoots free throws at 0:08.3.  Since Terry is shooting, he can't come out, but Doc still makes the defensive substitution of Williams and Bradley in for Pierce and Bass.

Green fouls Conley and at 0:06.6, Doc makes his final substitution of Pierce for Williams, so that he as Green, Pierce, Bradley, Terry, and Crawford out there for the last few ticks.

So, between 7:46 and 0.23.3, Doc mostly let the bench play, with his only substitution being Bass for Randolph.  After that, the game became a bit of a free throw shooting contest with a lot of stoppages due to foul and Doc made a lot of conventional offense/defense substitutions.

[danglertx]

Randolph went out with a bleeding nose.  It isn't like Doc just took him out to get the awesome play of Brandon Bass back in there.  It did look like they stopped the bleeding so Shav could have come back but at that point Doc was probably busy trying to win the game and didn't know or care he was available.

The bigger issue is, these guys need to play more.  If for no other reason than to bring some energy to the team.  Let them get two five minute stretches.  When we finally went with a bigger lineup, with Shav and DJ, those drives all of a sudden weren't getting finished at the rim and we started rebounding. We started getting stops and Crawford is a one man offense.

[connor]

Here's what the timeline of substitutions looks like.


With 7:50 left, DJ White enters the game for Jason Terry between Pierce free throws.

At 7:46 left in the 4th and the Celtics down 95-77, Shavlik Randolph enters the game for Paul Pierce, joining Williams, Crawford, Green, and White.

This lineup stays together until 2:36, when Bass comes in for Randolph with the score 100-91. 

Bass-White-Green-Williams-Crawford is the lineup until 23.3 left, with the score 104-100.  After a Boston rebound and timeout, Pierce and Terry come in for Williams and White, an obvious move to put better shooters on the floor.

At 0:18.9, as Crawford shoots free throws, Williams and Bradley come in for Terry and Bass, an obvious move to put in defenders who can force a turnover.

Crawford commits a foul at 0:18.5 and Bayless shoots two.  Bass and Wilcox come in for Crawford and Williams, an obvious move to put in bigger guys who have a better chance of rebounding a possible missed free throw.  (Bayless makes both.)

The Celtics call timeout and Terry and Crawford come in for Bradley and Wilcox.

After Green gets fouled at 0:14.7 and goes to the line, Williams and Bradley come in for Pierce and Terry.  Once again, Terry goes out and defenders come in.

At 0:12.1, Z. Randolph is fouled.  Wilcox comes in for Crawford between free throws.  If you lost track, the Celtics on the floor now is Wilcox, Green, Bradley, Williams, and Bass.

After Randolph makes his pair, the Celtics are down 108-104.  The Celtics once again make a standard offense-for-defense substitution, bringing in Pierce, Crawford, and Terry and sending Bradley, Wilcox, and Williams.

Terry shoots free throws at 0:08.3.  Since Terry is shooting, he can't come out, but Doc still makes the defensive substitution of Williams and Bradley in for Pierce and Bass.

Green fouls Conley and at 0:06.6, Doc makes his final substitution of Pierce for Williams, so that he as Green, Pierce, Bradley, Terry, and Crawford out there for the last few ticks.

So, between 7:46 and 0.23.3, Doc mostly let the bench play, with his only substitution being Bass for Randolph.  After that, the game became a bit of a free throw shooting contest with a lot of stoppages due to foul and Doc made a lot of conventional offense/defense substitutions.

TP for breaking it down so well.

I didn't see the game, but based on this substitution schedule it seems as if the subs were all perfectly reasonable. It wasn't like he was pulling the subs with plenty of time left to get the stars back out there to finish them off. It was purely size/offense/defense match ups that any coach would make down the stretch.

[tonyto3690]

And if Doc had kept those players in, these are the same idiots who are complaining that Doc did the idiotic thing and kept Pierce and Terry on the bench.

You just can't please some people.

[raynman]

Terry sucked.. TWill deserved to stay on the floor!

[CelticConcourse]

Here's what the timeline of substitutions looks like.


With 7:50 left, DJ White enters the game for Jason Terry between Pierce free throws.

At 7:46 left in the 4th and the Celtics down 95-77, Shavlik Randolph enters the game for Paul Pierce, joining Williams, Crawford, Green, and White.

This lineup stays together until 2:36, when Bass comes in for Randolph with the score 100-91. 

Bass-White-Green-Williams-Crawford is the lineup until 23.3 left, with the score 104-100.  After a Boston rebound and timeout, Pierce and Terry come in for Williams and White, an obvious move to put better shooters on the floor.

At 0:18.9, as Crawford shoots free throws, Williams and Bradley come in for Terry and Bass, an obvious move to put in defenders who can force a turnover.

Crawford commits a foul at 0:18.5 and Bayless shoots two.  Bass and Wilcox come in for Crawford and Williams, an obvious move to put in bigger guys who have a better chance of rebounding a possible missed free throw.  (Bayless makes both.)

The Celtics call timeout and Terry and Crawford come in for Bradley and Wilcox.

After Green gets fouled at 0:14.7 and goes to the line, Williams and Bradley come in for Pierce and Terry.  Once again, Terry goes out and defenders come in.

At 0:12.1, Z. Randolph is fouled.  Wilcox comes in for Crawford between free throws.  If you lost track, the Celtics on the floor now is Wilcox, Green, Bradley, Williams, and Bass.

After Randolph makes his pair, the Celtics are down 108-104.  The Celtics once again make a standard offense-for-defense substitution, bringing in Pierce, Crawford, and Terry and sending Bradley, Wilcox, and Williams.

Terry shoots free throws at 0:08.3.  Since Terry is shooting, he can't come out, but Doc still makes the defensive substitution of Williams and Bradley in for Pierce and Bass.

Green fouls Conley and at 0:06.6, Doc makes his final substitution of Pierce for Williams, so that he as Green, Pierce, Bradley, Terry, and Crawford out there for the last few ticks.

So, between 7:46 and 0.23.3, Doc mostly let the bench play, with his only substitution being Bass for Randolph.  After that, the game became a bit of a free throw shooting contest with a lot of stoppages due to foul and Doc made a lot of conventional offense/defense substitutions.

TP for breaking it down so well.

I didn't see the game, but based on this substitution schedule it seems as if the subs were all perfectly reasonable. It wasn't like he was pulling the subs with plenty of time left to get the stars back out there to finish them off. It was purely size/offense/defense match ups that any coach would make down the stretch.

I thought Doc made all the substitutions he should have. There really is nothing to blame him for, other than a stupid tech (the refs were really bad) and not playing well enough the first three quarters. But he let the bench play. I liked it!

[pearljammer10]

Here's what the timeline of substitutions looks like.


With 7:50 left, DJ White enters the game for Jason Terry between Pierce free throws.

At 7:46 left in the 4th and the Celtics down 95-77, Shavlik Randolph enters the game for Paul Pierce, joining Williams, Crawford, Green, and White.

This lineup stays together until 2:36, when Bass comes in for Randolph with the score 100-91. 

Bass-White-Green-Williams-Crawford is the lineup until 23.3 left, with the score 104-100.  After a Boston rebound and timeout, Pierce and Terry come in for Williams and White, an obvious move to put better shooters on the floor.

At 0:18.9, as Crawford shoots free throws, Williams and Bradley come in for Terry and Bass, an obvious move to put in defenders who can force a turnover.

Crawford commits a foul at 0:18.5 and Bayless shoots two.  Bass and Wilcox come in for Crawford and Williams, an obvious move to put in bigger guys who have a better chance of rebounding a possible missed free throw.  (Bayless makes both.)

The Celtics call timeout and Terry and Crawford come in for Bradley and Wilcox.

After Green gets fouled at 0:14.7 and goes to the line, Williams and Bradley come in for Pierce and Terry.  Once again, Terry goes out and defenders come in.

At 0:12.1, Z. Randolph is fouled.  Wilcox comes in for Crawford between free throws.  If you lost track, the Celtics on the floor now is Wilcox, Green, Bradley, Williams, and Bass.

After Randolph makes his pair, the Celtics are down 108-104.  The Celtics once again make a standard offense-for-defense substitution, bringing in Pierce, Crawford, and Terry and sending Bradley, Wilcox, and Williams.

Terry shoots free throws at 0:08.3.  Since Terry is shooting, he can't come out, but Doc still makes the defensive substitution of Williams and Bradley in for Pierce and Bass.

Green fouls Conley and at 0:06.6, Doc makes his final substitution of Pierce for Williams, so that he as Green, Pierce, Bradley, Terry, and Crawford out there for the last few ticks.

So, between 7:46 and 0.23.3, Doc mostly let the bench play, with his only substitution being Bass for Randolph.  After that, the game became a bit of a free throw shooting contest with a lot of stoppages due to foul and Doc made a lot of conventional offense/defense substitutions.

TP for breaking it down so well.

I didn't see the game, but based on this substitution schedule it seems as if the subs were all perfectly reasonable. It wasn't like he was pulling the subs with plenty of time left to get the stars back out there to finish them off. It was purely size/offense/defense match ups that any coach would make down the stretch.

Yeah based on this I dont see where the criticism comes from... Based on the OP thread I thought we were playing well and a cold Pierce and Terry were reinserted around the 2 or 3 minutes mark... The last 23 seconds playing the basic offense defense strategy game is what any coach would have done in that situation.

[kozlodoev]

I had an explanation of how the basic premise of this thread simply isn't true, then figured out someone already did that.

Please, pay attention to the game. If you don't, there's always the PopcornMachine.

http://popcornmachine.net/cgi-bin/gameflow.cgi?date=20130323&game=BOSMEM