Do the Celtics still matter in Boston?

[Shamrocker]

I don’t know if you guys watched the Bill Simmons special with Bill Russell, but I was struck by this comment Russell made about Boston:

“The Boston Celtics were the first NBA team to start five black players. Now, they were rewarded for being so progressive, but the city did not appreciate it.

We did a survey about what we could do to improve attendance. Over 50 percent of the responses said, “Too many black guys.” So, the Celtics to me were a blue team in a sea of red. That means there was really no connection for me between the fans in Boston and the Boston Celtics.”

Now, obviously that was 50 years ago, and times have indeed changed. Local residents have many reasons for being turned off from basketball, but at some level, does race still factor into the Celtics lack of popularity?
 
John Ryder does the WEEI Celtics postgame show, and I remember him saying that when he talks basketball the text lines are sometimes flooded with racial comments.  Boston is far from a racist city, but, at the margins, is race one of the many reasons why this isn’t a basketball town?

[D.o.s.]

I don’t know if you guys watched the Bill Simmons special with Bill Russell, but I was struck by this comment Russell made about Boston:

“The Boston Celtics were the first NBA team to start five black players. Now, they were rewarded for being so progressive, but the city did not appreciate it.

We did a survey about what we could do to improve attendance. Over 50 percent of the responses said, “Too many black guys.” So, the Celtics to me were a blue team in a sea of red. That means there was really no connection for me between the fans in Boston and the Boston Celtics.”

Now, obviously that was 50 years ago, and times have indeed changed. Local residents have many reasons for being turned off from basketball, but at some level, does race still factor into the Celtics lack of popularity?
 
John Ryder does the WEEI Celtics postgame show, and I remember him saying that when he talks basketball the text lines are sometimes flooded with racial comments.  Boston is far from a racist city, but, at the margins, is race one of the many reasons why this isn’t a basketball town?

I wouldn't say Boston is far from a racist city at all.

Most of these guys are still alive, you know?

[CelticConcourse]

History and racism still plagues Boston today, for sure. Is it a defining factor? No. Is it a supplementary factor? Most likely.

Sigh.

[D.o.s.]

History and racism still plagues Boston today, for sure. Is it a defining factor? No. Is it a supplementary factor? Most likely.

Sigh.

For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that racism affects all NBA markets--a disconnect between the owners and fans who can afford to go to the games (meaning--they're white) and the players who are gifted enough to be the faces of the league (meaning--they're black).

to oversimplify:

-there's a reason the league instituted a dress code.
-there's a reason the NBA ordered Topps to print tattoo-free basketball cards.
-there's a reason fans throw the word "thug" around extraordinarily liberally in regards to NBA players.

Is it conscious? I don't believe there are many ardent racists in the NBA's audience--there aren't enough white players of real renown, Scals excepted--but I do believe there are many fans who would call the police if they saw an average black NBA player walking around their neighborhood.

[Celtics18]

I think race does play a factor in the popularity of the Celtics.  Unfortunately, for this team, I also think they are somewhat caught in a cultural no man's land.  Even though they were the first team to integrate black players into the league, they are still known as the "white team" from the '80s in many circles.  They often seem like they rely on their older history more than their current history for their popularity.  I think their legacy turns off many younger fans, while I suspect that their lack of white player turns off many of their older fans.  They are somewhat stuck in between. 

Those of us who are diehards, however, are lucky to be fans of the greatest sports franchise on earth.  Our age, skin tone, gender, background, country of origin, etc. doesn't matter.  We share a bond as members of Celtics Nation. 

LET'S GO CELTICS!!

[Moranis]

Some cities are baseball cities.  Some are basketball.  Some are football.  Some are hockey. 

For example, I live in Cincinnati and pretty much no matter how good the Reds are (or how bad the Bengals are), the Bengals still drive the local media and talk radio.  It makes no difference if the Bengals have 10 players on the team that were arrested and they are in last place (as recently as a few years ago).  It makes no difference if the Reds are in the playoffs and the Bengals are in last place.  It is and always will be a Bengals city.  That isn't to say there are die hard Reds fans and sure when the Reds are winning (like the last couple of years), they draw a lot more attendance, but at the end of the day Cincinnati will always be a football city.  Period.

I have never lived in Boston, so I have no idea if that is the case there, but it seems to me that Boston is a baseball city first and foremost.  I mean I remember like 10 years ago, ESPN did a most tortured sports city list and Boston was like at the top basically because of the Red Sox (at the time the Patriots and Bruins hadn't exactly won recently either).  The winningest franchise in NBA history was basically ignored by ESPN (whereas a city like Cleveland that has three major sports teams and hasn't won a title since the 50's got no love from them).  From an outside view, it just seems like Boston is not a basketball city and is and forever will be a baseball city with the Patriots following close behind.  I have no idea where the Bruins fall into this since I am not much of a hockey guy.

[clover]

Some cities are baseball cities.  Some are basketball.  Some are football.  Some are hockey. 

For example, I live in Cincinnati and pretty much no matter how good the Reds are (or how bad the Bengals are), the Bengals still drive the local media and talk radio.  It makes no difference if the Bengals have 10 players on the team that were arrested and they are in last place (as recently as a few years ago).  It makes no difference if the Reds are in the playoffs and the Bengals are in last place.  It is and always will be a Bengals city.  That isn't to say there are die hard Reds fans and sure when the Reds are winning (like the last couple of years), they draw a lot more attendance, but at the end of the day Cincinnati will always be a football city.  Period.

I have never lived in Boston, so I have no idea if that is the case there, but it seems to me that Boston is a baseball city first and foremost.  I mean I remember like 10 years ago, ESPN did a most tortured sports city list and Boston was like at the top basically because of the Red Sox (at the time the Patriots and Bruins hadn't exactly won recently either).  The winningest franchise in NBA history was basically ignored by ESPN (whereas a city like Cleveland that has three major sports teams and hasn't won a title since the 50's got no love from them).  From an outside view, it just seems like Boston is not a basketball city and is and forever will be a baseball city with the Patriots following close behind.  I have no idea where the Bruins fall into this since I am not much of a hockey guy.

The Bruins were number two in Boston for years, probably decades, until first the 80's Celtics and then the competitive Patriots dislodged them.  Now, after years in fourth, they do seem to have elbowed the C's out for third.

Also, Boston is different from most parts of the country in that their colleges actually focus on academics and college sports are an afterthought compared to pro team loyalties.

[GreenEnvy]

they just arent an exciting team. I am a diehard Celts fan, basketball is number one for me... I get bored watching them play especially without their flashiest player who happens to be a young all star talent. They're a [dang] good team, but they're [dang] boring. I can only imagine how the general public feels.

I mean look at the Spurs since Duncan's been drafted. Every year one of the best teams, bunch of championships, popularity wise? They are nowhere near the top.

That's interesting.

I find them much more enjoyable to watch since Rondo went down than before. And it's not just the W/L, it's the more consistent effort and team basketball we get to watch.

[celtics2]

The Celtics still have their fan base, they just may not be as active. The Celtics are a non factor rest of the Country. Championships are far from achievable. Just remaining respectable will be a chore. Celtic Management just doesn't make good choices for building and maintaining a good Team. It's not the owner's fault, he's walked the walk. He is however a business man that I'm sure see's grey days ahead. He will tighten the purse till options look bright.

[Redz]

The Celtics still have their fan base, they just may not be as active. The Celtics are a non factor rest of the Country. Championships are far from achievable. Just remaining respectable will be a chore. Celtic Management just doesn't make good choices for building and maintaining a good Team. It's not the owner's fault, he's walked the walk. He is however a business man that I'm sure see's grey days ahead. He will tighten the purse till options look bright.

celts were doing pretty well business wise in the pre-KG / Ray days too.  They're good owners and they'll keep making money a

[PierceMVP08]

The Celtics will ALWAYS matter in Boston.  The Celtics are the 4th most valuable franchise in the NBA, partly because of their strong ratings.  They just signed the second largest TV deal in the NBA, behind the Lakers because of their tv pull.  Yes, maybe the Bruins have better TV ratings THIS season but the Celtics killed them in previous years, even when they were a struggling team. 

It has been pointed out that Boston media has no one that can talk basketball well, and I agree.  That's why I never listen to sports radio or watch Boston sports television outside of Celtics games.  It's not because I don't want to engage in these media, but there is no where to turn to.  I think what is being talked about on radio is a reflection of what the hosts want to talk about, not Boston sports fans.

Just think about how vibrant this community is.  We've all been driven here because there is no other outlet.

[Fred Roberts]

Of course they matter. They are a signature franchise.

Certainly, fan interest comes and goes  .. . and it went big time during the dark days.

Certainly, some older folks are turned off by the NBA, but our ownership is clearly building a culture that brings in higher quality individuals that hustle and have character. That makes the Celts more rootable and gives us a personality that the region can appreciate.

[Snakehead]

The Celtics will ALWAYS matter in Boston.  The Celtics are the 4th most valuable franchise in the NBA, partly because of their strong ratings.  They just signed the second largest TV deal in the NBA, behind the Lakers because of their tv pull.  Yes, maybe the Bruins have better TV ratings THIS season but the Celtics killed them in previous years, even when they were a struggling team. 

It has been pointed out that Boston media has no one that can talk basketball well, and I agree.  That's why I never listen to sports radio or watch Boston sports television outside of Celtics games.  It's not because I don't want to engage in these media, but there is no where to turn to.  I think what is being talked about on radio is a reflection of what the hosts want to talk about, not Boston sports fans.

Just think about how vibrant this community is.  We've all been driven here because there is no other outlet.

Great post.

In addition: how many other SB Nation blogs have forums?

Celtics have a great fanbase.  They get great showings even on the road.  This whole thread is puzzling to me.

[Shamrocker]

The Celtics will ALWAYS matter in Boston.  The Celtics are the 4th most valuable franchise in the NBA, partly because of their strong ratings.  They just signed the second largest TV deal in the NBA, behind the Lakers because of their tv pull.  Yes, maybe the Bruins have better TV ratings THIS season but the Celtics killed them in previous years, even when they were a struggling team. 

It has been pointed out that Boston media has no one that can talk basketball well, and I agree.  That's why I never listen to sports radio or watch Boston sports television outside of Celtics games.  It's not because I don't want to engage in these media, but there is no where to turn to. I think what is being talked about on radio is a reflection of what the hosts want to talk about, not Boston sports fans.

Just think about how vibrant this community is.  We've all been driven here because there is no other outlet.

I don’t agree. Host talk about what drives ratings. It is a business, after all.  Bruins talk, for some ungodly reason, drives ratings right now.  How many Boston sports personalities honestly understand hockey? Very few.

[BigAlTheFuture]

I work and live in Boston and its clear the Celtics are the least popular sports team here. I use to work at a sports apparel store in the Back Bay Area and the only people that bought Celtics apparel were tourists.