Author Topic: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run  (Read 3292 times)

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Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« on: March 19, 2013, 08:52:28 AM »

Offline Employee8

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Just numbers.  I know there are factors such as who were the refs, if Miami really just played well or if the refs helped them out.  It's strange to me that they consistently get calls to their advantage except for marquee matchups and some blowout/large wins where James and Wade are on the bench.  These numbers can be further analyzed as to what the foul differentials are in the 4th quarter, what the game situation was, etc.


Edit:  Sorry I'm inept at uploading pictures of my Excel table but here's a link.

http://imgur.com/3PacoIN

Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2013, 09:21:40 AM »

Offline bdsulliv

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I'd just like to point out that LeBron gets three steps, while everyone else gets two.

I'd also like to point out that when Wilcox gets all ball guarding LeBron across the lane, Hubie Brown, even in the face of slow motion photographic evidence, won't admit the obvious BS call by the refs.

Likewise, when Jeff Green drives to the hoop and the defender gets no ball, Hubie Brown, even in the face of slow motion photographic evidence, won't admit the obvious.

In a close game like this, even a small one-way bias can have huge impact on the final statistics. Last night wasn't as egregious as other examples have been in the past (see: Game 2 2012 ECF, Game 7 2010 Finals, etc.), but it was still undeniable.

In a non-WWE league, a player can't go almost a month without committing a foul: http://doubleclutchhoops.com/will-lebron-commit-a-foul-on-christmas/

Last night we watched a beautiful game basketball from Jeff Green and the Celtics and even (begrudgingly) the Heat that was once again disgraced by the league bias towards the marketing machine of the day, be it the Lakers, Heat, etc. After last year's debacle, I swore I would never get angry about the desecration of our favorite pastime, electing to be less emotionally invested, but I keep getting sucked back in and woke up this morning having nightmares about the terrible injustice that was done to us. Soooooo frustrating.


Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2013, 09:22:44 AM »

Offline bdsulliv

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Just numbers.  I know there are factors such as who were the refs, if Miami really just played well or if the refs helped them out.  It's strange to me that they consistently get calls to their advantage except for marquee matchups and some blowout/large wins where James and Wade are on the bench.  These numbers can be further analyzed as to what the foul differentials are in the 4th quarter, what the game situation was, etc.


Edit:  Sorry I'm inept at uploading pictures of my Excel table but here's a link.

http://imgur.com/3PacoIN

Oh yeah, and thanks for doing the statistics. Basically says it all.

Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2013, 09:24:17 AM »

Offline ssspence

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When you're playing the best team in basketball, with the biggest superstar in the game, that's the way it is -- and will always be -- in the NBA.

No story here.
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Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2013, 09:33:29 AM »

Offline bdsulliv

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When you're playing the best team in basketball, with the biggest superstar in the game, that's the way it is -- and will always be -- in the NBA.

No story here.


That's just the thing. San Antonio (pre injury) is probably the best team in basketball, but they would have no chance against the Heat in a series because of the corruption. Over a seven game series that type of consistent bias would cost them a game or two, just like it cost the Celtics a game or two last year.

It's like saying, "Of course governments are going to steal 15% of your bank account over a weekend to give billion dollar bonuses to a select few of their buddies," and just accepting it. It's not acceptable, even if it's predictable.

Our only recourse is to consistently hold referees to a higher standard of truth, the same way police and judges are held to a higher standard of ethics in society; when you are granted power, it comes great responsibility, and the betrayal of that trust is that much greater.

I'd call for a boycott of the NBA, but who am I kidding there. I can't stop watching either ;)




Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2013, 09:39:32 AM »

Offline Moranis

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When you're playing the best team in basketball, with the biggest superstar in the game, that's the way it is -- and will always be -- in the NBA.

No story here.


That's just the thing. San Antonio (pre injury) is probably the best team in basketball, but they would have no chance against the Heat in a series because of the corruption. Over a seven game series that type of consistent bias would cost them a game or two, just like it cost the Celtics a game or two last year.

It's like saying, "Of course governments are going to steal 15% of your bank account over a weekend to give billion dollar bonuses to a select few of their buddies," and just accepting it. It's not acceptable, even if it's predictable.

Our only recourse is to consistently hold referees to a higher standard of truth, the same way police and judges are held to a higher standard of ethics in society; when you are granted power, it comes great responsibility, and the betrayal of that trust is that much greater.

I'd call for a boycott of the NBA, but who am I kidding there. I can't stop watching either ;)
Is the league only corrupt when Boston doesn't win the title, or is it corrupt those years too?

This argument always seems funny on a message board for the team with the most championships in league history.

And I hate to tell you this, but your evidence of corruption, doesn't show that at all.  I mean it shows "shockingly" that against bad teams Miami has a positive foul differential and against good teams the foul differential is about even.  Shocking.  Stop the presses.  Bad teams foul more than good teams, no way.  That is the most earth shattering news I've heard in years. 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 09:44:56 AM by Moranis »
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Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 09:51:15 AM »

Offline bdsulliv

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When you're playing the best team in basketball, with the biggest superstar in the game, that's the way it is -- and will always be -- in the NBA.

No story here.


That's just the thing. San Antonio (pre injury) is probably the best team in basketball, but they would have no chance against the Heat in a series because of the corruption. Over a seven game series that type of consistent bias would cost them a game or two, just like it cost the Celtics a game or two last year.

It's like saying, "Of course governments are going to steal 15% of your bank account over a weekend to give billion dollar bonuses to a select few of their buddies," and just accepting it. It's not acceptable, even if it's predictable.

Our only recourse is to consistently hold referees to a higher standard of truth, the same way police and judges are held to a higher standard of ethics in society; when you are granted power, it comes great responsibility, and the betrayal of that trust is that much greater.

I'd call for a boycott of the NBA, but who am I kidding there. I can't stop watching either ;)
Is the league only corrupt when Boston doesn't win the title, or is it corrupt those years too?

This argument always seems funny on a message board for the team with the most championships in league history.

And I hate to tell you this, but your evidence of corruption, doesn't show that at all.  I mean it shows "shockingly" that against bad teams Miami has a positive foul differential and against good teams the foul differential is about even.  Shocking.  Stop the presses.  Bad teams foul more than good teams, no way.  That is the most earth shattering news I've heard in years.

No. The years the Celtics win are a triumph against the system.

Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 09:53:09 AM »

Offline Employee8

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When you're playing the best team in basketball, with the biggest superstar in the game, that's the way it is -- and will always be -- in the NBA.

No story here.


That's just the thing. San Antonio (pre injury) is probably the best team in basketball, but they would have no chance against the Heat in a series because of the corruption. Over a seven game series that type of consistent bias would cost them a game or two, just like it cost the Celtics a game or two last year.

It's like saying, "Of course governments are going to steal 15% of your bank account over a weekend to give billion dollar bonuses to a select few of their buddies," and just accepting it. It's not acceptable, even if it's predictable.

Our only recourse is to consistently hold referees to a higher standard of truth, the same way police and judges are held to a higher standard of ethics in society; when you are granted power, it comes great responsibility, and the betrayal of that trust is that much greater.

I'd call for a boycott of the NBA, but who am I kidding there. I can't stop watching either ;)
Is the league only corrupt when Boston doesn't win the title, or is it corrupt those years two?

This argument always seems funny on a message board for the team with the most championships in league history.

And I hate to tell you this, but your evidence of corruption, doesn't show that at all.  I mean it shows "shockingly" that against bad teams Miami has a positive foul differential and against good teams the foul differential is about even.  Shocking.  Stop the presses.  Bad teams foul more than good teams, no way.  That is the most earth shattering news I've heard in years.

We may have the most number of championships in the league but we're still in the second tier of NBA royalty.  The sport has changed with the increase of TV exposure in the 80s.

I agree that bad teams tend to foul more than the good teams because it's one way they can do to slow down James and Wade but last night's game woke me up to the fact that they will get the benefit of the call in a tight situation.  Playoff basketball always comes down to the final possessions so if the Heat are on the offensive end, they're going to get away with push-offs or charges and lesser known defensive players are going to be called for slight movement of their feet or a slap on the wrist.

So you've got the lesser popular team playing extra careful on defense, which allows the "superior" offensive players to score easier.

But I know that's how it goes.  I know the superstars get more respect from the refs and I know it's been going on for decades.  But you can't deny the fact that it is unfortunate that it's how it goes.

When KG gets away with those illegal screens against the Kings, Jazz, Bobcats, Hawks- I cringe a bit too.  I'm being idealistic here but it would absolutely be phenomenal if we had robotic refs that will be completely 100% neutral.

To me, this somewhat taints the Heat's 23 game run. I won't take away how phenomenal it was and they probably deserved to win most of it.  But it does make me wonder how much they really get away with small plays that change the momentum of games.

Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 10:20:26 AM »

Offline Moranis

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When you're playing the best team in basketball, with the biggest superstar in the game, that's the way it is -- and will always be -- in the NBA.

No story here.


That's just the thing. San Antonio (pre injury) is probably the best team in basketball, but they would have no chance against the Heat in a series because of the corruption. Over a seven game series that type of consistent bias would cost them a game or two, just like it cost the Celtics a game or two last year.

It's like saying, "Of course governments are going to steal 15% of your bank account over a weekend to give billion dollar bonuses to a select few of their buddies," and just accepting it. It's not acceptable, even if it's predictable.

Our only recourse is to consistently hold referees to a higher standard of truth, the same way police and judges are held to a higher standard of ethics in society; when you are granted power, it comes great responsibility, and the betrayal of that trust is that much greater.

I'd call for a boycott of the NBA, but who am I kidding there. I can't stop watching either ;)
Is the league only corrupt when Boston doesn't win the title, or is it corrupt those years two?

This argument always seems funny on a message board for the team with the most championships in league history.

And I hate to tell you this, but your evidence of corruption, doesn't show that at all.  I mean it shows "shockingly" that against bad teams Miami has a positive foul differential and against good teams the foul differential is about even.  Shocking.  Stop the presses.  Bad teams foul more than good teams, no way.  That is the most earth shattering news I've heard in years.

We may have the most number of championships in the league but we're still in the second tier of NBA royalty.  The sport has changed with the increase of TV exposure in the 80s.

I agree that bad teams tend to foul more than the good teams because it's one way they can do to slow down James and Wade but last night's game woke me up to the fact that they will get the benefit of the call in a tight situation.  Playoff basketball always comes down to the final possessions so if the Heat are on the offensive end, they're going to get away with push-offs or charges and lesser known defensive players are going to be called for slight movement of their feet or a slap on the wrist.

So you've got the lesser popular team playing extra careful on defense, which allows the "superior" offensive players to score easier.

But I know that's how it goes.  I know the superstars get more respect from the refs and I know it's been going on for decades.  But you can't deny the fact that it is unfortunate that it's how it goes.

When KG gets away with those illegal screens against the Kings, Jazz, Bobcats, Hawks- I cringe a bit too.  I'm being idealistic here but it would absolutely be phenomenal if we had robotic refs that will be completely 100% neutral.

To me, this somewhat taints the Heat's 23 game run. I won't take away how phenomenal it was and they probably deserved to win most of it.  But it does make me wonder how much they really get away with small plays that change the momentum of games.
I just don't how you can say that after a game in which there were exactly 4 non-intentional fouls in the entire 4th quarter of the game. 1 by Lee, 2 by Terry, and 1 by James (and the only 2 foul shots were by Pierce on James' foul).  And I do recall Lebron getting an offensive foul against him on a screen as well as what seemed like a pretty ridiculous technical called.  Boston also had 3 more free throws than Miami did in the game so it wasn't like there was some vast discrepancy. 

This thread just seems like sour grapes and whining when the better team won the game (and Miami is clearly a better team especially when KG, Rondo, and Sullinger are in suits).
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Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 10:54:04 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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It's not about the foul differential per se, because as Moranis points out it's not consistent.  It's not as though every game they have fewer than the opponent.  Last night, the Celtics actually took more free throws.

Rather, it's about who on the Heat is tagged with fouls (i.e. Not LeBron) and what it takes for the Heat to be called for a foul.  It takes A LOT. 

Especially when the Heat were down by a bunch last night, the refs were allowing them to hack the bejeesus out of the Celtics players, which caused a lot of turnovers. 

The Heat are lauded for playing great defense and getting so many points in transition, but that's a lot easier to do when the refs let you play defense like it's 1998 while the other team gets ticky tack fouls called every minute or two.
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Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2013, 11:15:14 AM »

Offline action781

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While I do think there is some unfairness in the officiating occassionally...  I still think you can't expect the Heat and their opponents to have the exact same number of fouls called on them each game.  Lebron is the most aggressive physical force in the league and if you don't foul him, he will score lots and lots of points.  So you have to foul him more than other teams.  He is also a phenominal defender and while gets away with more fouls that he should (as does KG), Lebron actually commits less fouls than your average defender while playing defense.  Watch him.
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Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2013, 11:51:04 AM »

Offline pearljammer10

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The three steps thing is ludacris. That play where even Hubie agreed when Bradley was calling for the three steps was terribly obvious.

I definitely thought the refs were going to overturn the Green Battier call with 7 seconds left. I can not believe that the gave the Celtics the ball (even though it was the right call). I was shocked and would have throw my remote through the tv if they had changed it.

Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2013, 01:37:49 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The three steps thing is ludacris. That play where even Hubie agreed when Bradley was calling for the three steps was terribly obvious.

I definitely thought the refs were going to overturn the Green Battier call with 7 seconds left. I can not believe that the gave the Celtics the ball (even though it was the right call). I was shocked and would have throw my remote through the tv if they had changed it.
I just think they couldn't tell.  Had they originally given the ball to Miami, I think it would have stayed going Miami's way.  You just couldn't get a good angle on the shot that could really tell you one way or the other.
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Re: Foul differential during Miami's 23 game run
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2013, 01:53:49 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I'm surprised no one's mentioned what seemed like the most crucial play of the end of the game - Green's layup attempt with about 2 minutes left being goaltended by Bosh (it had already gone off the backboard), leading to an open Chalmers 3 on the other end that put the Heat up 1. 

5 point swing right there, on what's, unlike contact, not a judgment call.

To be clear I'm not peddling conspiracy nonsense, just saying if you're going to focus on one officiating mistake, that was the biggest in my opinion.