Avery Bradley vs Tony Allen

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Hard to match these two..TA covered bigger guys, and pg's...avery can only cover smaller guards...TA has shown what doc kept him from, besides playing, scoring, slashing...dunking.....and the WORST part is...TA got dumped for made-of-paper man marquis daniels....WHOSE CALL was THAT........

[dasani]

TA defensively because of his range.

[clover]

This is a bit silly in that Tony hadn't even been drafted yet when he was Bradley's current age, and, as others have noted, Tony is a 2-3, whereas Bradley is a 1-2.

But yeah, they're both defensive specialists who have some offensive capabilities as well.  Since Bradley's 22 and Tony's 31, we know much better what Tony's offensive ceiling is than we know Bradley's at this point, but Bradley's shown more jumpshot range early on.

[gar]

I see T-Will as a better comparison. Doc tried to make T Allen a PG. With T-Will it may actually work. T-Will is TA with better handles and passing ability. Shot is about the same; but both play D and can finish at the rim.

[Geo123]

Hard to match these two..TA covered bigger guys, and pg's...avery can only cover smaller guards...TA has shown what doc kept him from, besides playing, scoring, slashing...dunking.....and the WORST part is...TA got dumped for made-of-paper man marquis daniels....WHOSE CALL was THAT........

What are you talking about that Bradley can only guard smaller gaurds?  He guarded DWade when we played them and he wouldn't be classified as a smaaler guard.  When he and Rondo played together he almost always guarded the SG who is not a smaller guard.  Sorry you're wrong...

[LooseCannon]

TA got dumped

I tend to think that Tony Allen chose to leave (rather than was allowed/made to leave) because he wasn't going to be treated as Ray Allen's heir apparent as starting SG.  And he certainly wasn't going to be given a contract that cemented that role.

[BudweiserCeltic]

TA got dumped

I tend to think that Tony Allen chose to leave (rather than was allowed/made to leave) because he wasn't going to be treated as Ray Allen's heir apparent as starting SG.  And he certainly wasn't going to be given a contract that cemented that role.

Tony got an offer, Ainge didn't want to match, TA followed the money. That's how I recall it.

[JBcat]

There would be a ton of turnovers if they were covering each other bringing the ball up the court.

[Quinn]

Hard to match these two..TA covered bigger guys, and pg's...avery can only cover smaller guards...TA has shown what doc kept him from, besides playing, scoring, slashing...dunking.....and the WORST part is...TA got dumped for made-of-paper man marquis daniels....WHOSE CALL was THAT........

What are you talking about that Bradley can only guard smaller gaurds?  He guarded DWade when we played them and he wouldn't be classified as a smaaler guard.  When he and Rondo played together he almost always guarded the SG who is not a smaller guard.  Sorry you're wrong...

D-wades only 6-4. Definitely on the shorter end of 2 guards. Remember he played the 1 for a while when he came out of college

[mgent]

I answered your post in the past thread.

Um no you didn't.  Actually nobody did, it was the last post in the thread.

I don't understand either of your points.  Plenty of off the ball SGs average much less than 1.5 assists in 18 minutes (Bradley for one).  And a guard that shoots jumpshots is obviously not even going to have opportunities to turn the ball over.  And how does bad shooting = dumb anyway?

As I've said, Tony turned the ball over more than he should have.  That doesn't outweigh his other contributions, nor did it justify the amount of nonstop talk his TOs generated.

Nope I didn't, I thought I had. Must have half typed it and then stopped for some reason my bad.

Anyways look at turnover rates not just raw turnovers, Tony was far worse than  Green/Bradley when he was here. 19 TO% is really bad.

He was the second worst SG in the league in 06-07 and the worst SG in the league the next three years when it comes to TOV% or TO ratio.

When you're the worst player at the league at an aspect of the game you're going to get a fair amount of crap for it. Especially when they're often really ugly looking turnovers.

Tony earned his rep. For a guard who doesn't get many assists (so he wasn't passing a bunch) his turnovers were terrible both on a per minute basis and on a per shot basis.

Let's be fair, he only played 33 games.  And I count 5 SGs ahead of him along with 2 SFs and 2 teammates in Rondo/Perk.  Also, I'm gonna have to disagree on the assists again.  Not many backup SGs get 3 assists or more per 36 and the couple that I'm seeing are heavy ball-handlers.

I think you're missing my point.  I've admitted many times that he was bad when it came to TOs.  But when you compare how often he actually turned the ball over to other players, the amount of fuss that's made is nothing close to proportional. 

[scaryjerry]

TA got dumped

I tend to think that Tony Allen chose to leave (rather than was allowed/made to leave) because he wasn't going to be treated as Ray Allen's heir apparent as starting SG.  And he certainly wasn't going to be given a contract that cemented that role.

Tony got an offer, Ainge didn't want to match, TA followed the money. That's how I recall it.

No I believe Danny did match but Tony wanted more playing time...didn't want to be ray and pauls backup

[mgent]

Conclusion: TA as a PG will turn the ball over at a high rate no doubt.

And worse, not get many assists at all. Tony as a PG (on offense) would be awesome for one game then terrible for the rest.

I don't think Tony as a PG part-time is the reason for his turnovers myself, though it didn't help. I think he was just way more prone to out of control drives and bad passes. He got better as he got older.

If by got older you mean got healthier.  And real minutes.

I think it's blatantly clear that the inconsistent minutes affected his play.  He's the epitome of a "confidence player."  And let's not forget how little confidence he was starting out with by never having a healthy year in the league.  It was obvious how much more in control he was when he was playing in a rhythm.

Which is exactly why he left a team 2 minutes from a championship for a below .500 one (and everyone gave him crap for that too).

I disagree, because he's been banged up in Memphis a lot too and has received very similar minutes to what he got before the big 3 were put together.

Systematically their offense might be easier for him to handle but I tend to think he just got better as a basketball player.

He averaged 18 mpg as a Celtic (19mpg pre-Big 3 which includes taking over for Pierce).

He's played 27 mpg the past two years.

He missed 156 games in 6 years as a Celtic.

He's missed 21 games in almost 3 years as a Grizzly.

Not taking into consideration the difference in confidence level when you're starting.

[lightspeed5]

a big chunk of those games missed was because of the torn acl.

[Geo123]

Hard to match these two..TA covered bigger guys, and pg's...avery can only cover smaller guards...TA has shown what doc kept him from, besides playing, scoring, slashing...dunking.....and the WORST part is...TA got dumped for made-of-paper man marquis daniels....WHOSE CALL was THAT........

What are you talking about that Bradley can only guard smaller gaurds?  He guarded DWade when we played them and he wouldn't be classified as a smaaler guard.  When he and Rondo played together he almost always guarded the SG who is not a smaller guard.  Sorry you're wrong...

D-wades only 6-4. Definitely on the shorter end of 2 guards. Remember he played the 1 for a while when he came out of college

Read the rest of the comment where I said Bradely guarded  ALL SG's.  BTW, nmost people would consider Wade to be a 'big guard" because of how he plays. 

[BballTim]

Hard to match these two..TA covered bigger guys, and pg's...avery can only cover smaller guards...TA has shown what doc kept him from, besides playing, scoring, slashing...dunking.....and the WORST part is...TA got dumped for made-of-paper man marquis daniels....WHOSE CALL was THAT........

What are you talking about that Bradley can only guard smaller gaurds?  He guarded DWade when we played them and he wouldn't be classified as a smaaler guard.  When he and Rondo played together he almost always guarded the SG who is not a smaller guard.  Sorry you're wrong...

D-wades only 6-4. Definitely on the shorter end of 2 guards. Remember he played the 1 for a while when he came out of college

Read the rest of the comment where I said Bradely guarded  ALL SG's.  BTW, nmost people would consider Wade to be a 'big guard" because of how he plays.

  Bradley doesn't spend much time guarding shooting guards, even when he's paired with Rondo.