Is it time to admit Rondo meant so much to this team?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while

Very true.

Remember when some posters were saying Rondo was "stealing" rebounds from our bigs and padding his rebounding stats?

LOL.

Yet, Avery Bradley 4 rebounds, Courtney Lee 4 rebounds, Jason Terry 4 rebounds... that's plenty of rebounding production from your main guards, so don't think Rondo would've added that much in that department.

[Snakehead]

Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night

are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more

Hm?

Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.

Rondo is also a very good rebounder so that would've helped a lot but we've needed help in that department for a while

Very true.

Remember when some posters were saying Rondo was "stealing" rebounds from our bigs and padding his rebounding stats?

LOL.

Yet, Avery Bradley 4 rebounds, Courtney Lee 4 rebounds, Jason Terry 4 rebounds... that's plenty of rebounding production from your main guards, so don't think Rondo would've added that much in that department.

Rondo is a better rebounder than any of them.  So yes he would have helped.  How could you say otherwise?

Sure it falls more on your bigs but Rondo is a better rebounder and he sure has had huge rebounding games on big stages.

[kgainez]

I felt like last night was one of the games where our guards/point forwards whomever played a lot like Rondo would've. and like I continue to say, itt felt like that game was played in December.

I'm not sure what was wrong with AB, but he couldn't keep his man in front of him. Lakers were screening much better and it seemed as if Wilcox and Bass werent even telling the guards screens were coming.

Also, AB and Lee don't press as much..or at least didn't last night.
I think AB played poorly. Our defense all over was bad.
We were a step behind all night.

Old? Tired? I'm not sure.
I do not think that was a game where Rondo's presence would've mattered.

[kgainez]

Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night

are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more

Hm?

Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.

[CoachBo]

Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night

Is it really? And I pose that question to both of your statements.


I don't think anyone really thought we were a better team by simply upcoming him out of the lineup. But with the 4 guards we had when Barbosa was healthy, we created a new system (one in which our defenders continually tried to keep their man in front of them and on offense there were threats everywhere on the floor).

I think Rondo is a very good player. I don't think he is a franchise player. I especially don't think he is a good fit for this team. And I think 29 GM's in this league know this.

Co-sign the above.

It continues to disturb me how many people are more worried about Rondo than the franchise in general.

Rondo is a good player. He is not a great player, because he's a ball-stopper and an ambivalent defender. He's not remotely the foundation of any rebuild Ainge might decide to launch, today, in the off-season or otherwise.

The beauty of basketball is that it's a team game. As an old-timer, I guess, it makes me sad to see people dwell on one player, especially on a Celtics franchise whose tradition has been built on the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

JMO.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Main problem with our guards is that Doc for some reason has decided to use Bradley in a PG role. We grab a rebound, and instead of doing what we were doing previously, move the ball up the floor, you see Bradley coming back to look for the ball.

That's not going to lead to a lot of success for us. Our ball movement is vastly superior when we had Lee bringing the ball up, and when no one was assigned to be a PG among this group of players.

[Snakehead]

Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night

are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more

Hm?

Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.

No I'm talking about Rondo.  No one on our team takes more shots at the rim and makes a higher percentage.

Just another fallacy I see said all the time.

And funny you're blaming Rondo for other plays not being ready for a pass.

[wdleehi]

This team needs more then one thing.



When Rondo is back, that reduces the number of things needed.

[Fafnir]

Main problem with our guards is that Doc for some reason has decided to use Bradley in a PG role. We grab a rebound, and instead of doing what we were doing previously, move the ball up the floor, you see Bradley coming back to look for the ball.

That's not going to lead to a lot of success for us. Our ball movement is vastly superior when we had Lee bringing the ball up, and when no one was assigned to be a PG among this group of players.

They passed it ahead to Green/Lee/Terry/Etc plenty. But when the other team is:

1. Back

or

2. The player doesn't attack

It doesn't mean much. They're using Bradley to start their set plays more than Lee certainly.

[kgainez]

Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night

are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more

Hm?

Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.

No I'm talking about Rondo.  No one on our team takes more shots at the rim and makes a higher percentage.

Just another fallacy I see said all the time.

And funny you're blaming Rondo for other plays not being ready for a pass.

he can turn it on when he wants to
that doesn't mean he hasn't bricked quite a few or passed them out.
I'm not blaming him for them not being ready. But if you're at the rim, in position, you take the shot. is it science? I absolutely hate throwing it out for a jump shot for someone who's covered or partially covered. that's awful.

my main and ending point, is I don't think having Rondo last night would've mattered especially when you had AB being the dribbling PG last night.

Sullinger on the other hand...

[scaryjerry]

I thought the whole winning without him or being "better without him" was the biggest farce in quite some time anyways...bunch of home games in that stretch, 2 road games against crap and we almost lost them both......

It's basically like falling off a cliff, somehow surviving but once your adrenaline wears off you're screwed and in a lot more pain then you originally thought..they're coming back down to earth without him  and any "better without rondo" wasn't sustainable for this team and having him would benefit the season long term and the wear and tear on the old guys.

Hopefully they can be competitive in the playoffs who knows

[BudweiserCeltic]

Main problem with our guards is that Doc for some reason has decided to use Bradley in a PG role. We grab a rebound, and instead of doing what we were doing previously, move the ball up the floor, you see Bradley coming back to look for the ball.

That's not going to lead to a lot of success for us. Our ball movement is vastly superior when we had Lee bringing the ball up, and when no one was assigned to be a PG among this group of players.

They passed it ahead to Green/Lee/Terry/Etc plenty. But when the other team is:

1. Back

or

2. The player doesn't attack

It doesn't mean much. They're using Bradley to start their set plays more than Lee certainly.

Oh I agree, but the ball is not moving forward as often as we were doing, regardless of the defense.

Keep an eye out in the next game, and look at what Bradley is doing after rebounds.

We're starting to resemble the "Rondo focused" offense more and more with inferior playmakers and passers, and that's not the way to go about it in my opinion. Ball seems to be sticking on Bradley's hands too often, and he seems a bit trigger happy to me.

[Q_FBE]

The Denver game might have been winnable with Rondo.

Last night we needed Sullenger's input to rebound and limit the second chance stuff.

Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, and Antwan Jamison imposed their will on us inside. Rondo might have clamped in for steals maybe.

[Snakehead]

Rondo's game is penetration and that's what we needed last night

are you kidding me? lol
I saw lots of that last night and it made me upset that people would get so close to the basket only to pass it out and watch everyone run around some more

Hm?

Perhaps Rondo would have finished those are made a better pass that led to a basket.

I'm not sure we're talking about the same Rondo.
Rondo STAYS passing up easy layups for an assist...and the same thing happens.
No one expects the pass, they werent ready, so they have to run around some more and then just hoist up a brick.

No I'm talking about Rondo.  No one on our team takes more shots at the rim and makes a higher percentage.

Just another fallacy I see said all the time.

And funny you're blaming Rondo for other plays not being ready for a pass.

he can turn it on when he wants to
that doesn't mean he hasn't bricked quite a few or passed them out.
I'm not blaming him for them not being ready. But if you're at the rim, in position, you take the shot. is it science? I absolutely hate throwing it out for a jump shot for someone who's covered or partially covered. that's awful.

my main and ending point, is I don't think having Rondo last night would've mattered especially when you had AB being the dribbling PG last night.

Sullinger on the other hand...

The stats say he takes shots at the rim and at a high percentage.  And practically no one on the team helps him in this regard.  So I don't understand what you're saying.  He could attack more but his numbers are quite good.

Passing out to shooters is something you hate?  If you don't have the best shot?  That's good basketball.  Sure Rondo can overpass but often that is the right play.

And finally what you're saying is Avery is the same level of PG, or even player, as Rondo? 

Okay then...

[kgainez]

But guys...were we winning with Rondo? lol

Yall make it seem like we didn't go on our 6 game win streak with Rondo right at home.
Yall make it seem like we were 30-10 before Rondo went down.

I like the guy but I think as he's gone, we seem to make his skill set fantastical.

Let me put it like that. Sometimes when I get to missing someone, I remember all our fun and good times. Then I hang out with them and I remember how annoying and worrisome they are. Same difference. Things we do as humans.

How would Rondo have helped against Lakers?
Maybe against the Nuggets. I think we were in close enough striking distance for that.

But last night? Against the Lakers? who we couldn't defend and get a rebound against? how does he help?