Author Topic: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?  (Read 6839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2012, 09:37:34 AM »

Offline ssspence

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6375
  • Tommy Points: 403
We need the rest of the team to turn it around or a big trade made.



Otherwise, we could see the Celtics shop him while his value is up.  (not that I want them to but it is an option I can see the Celtics exploring if the team doesn't show some more life this season)

This is way I see it too.   Rondo is NOT the problem , but maybe the solution , he is the only person that can bring in a center with trade value.

Maybe Cousins will get himself in more trouble and he can be traded for without out giving up Rondo.

I'm convinced the best player we can get without giving up ROndo might be Varejao., somehow....PLEASE DANNY figure it out.

The fans and coachs alike are waitng to see AB play , and his play might determine who is traded AB or ROndo for a center.

Or the Celtics can keep the current team and play .500 ball for the next 3 years.  Possibly make the playoffs.

I would never trade Rondo /AB /Sully for Gortat.


If they do decide to shop Rondo, it is not going to be the Gortot/Side Show level player.


It will not be the Josh Smith level player.



It will be for someone they think can be a better foundation.

This. I wouldn't rule out the idea that there could be a package of two players they'd prefer to Rondo, but I think that would be hard to find and unlikely at the same time.

Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2012, 09:45:38 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37483
  • Tommy Points: 2999
We need the rest of the team to turn it around or a big trade made.



Otherwise, we could see the Celtics shop him while his value is up.  (not that I want them to but it is an option I can see the Celtics exploring if the team doesn't show some more life this season)

This is way I see it too.   Rondo is NOT the problem , but maybe the solution , he is the only person that can bring in a center with trade value.

Maybe Cousins will get himself in more trouble and he can be traded for without out giving up Rondo.

I'm convinced the best player we can get without giving up ROndo might be Varejao., somehow....PLEASE DANNY figure it out.

The fans and coachs alike are waitng to see AB play , and his play might determine who is traded AB or ROndo for a center.

Or the Celtics can keep the current team and play .500 ball for the next 3 years.  Possibly make the playoffs.

I would never trade Rondo /AB /Sully for Gortat.


If they do decide to shop Rondo, it is not going to be the Gortot/Side Show level player.


It will not be the Josh Smith level player.



It will be for someone they think can be a better foundation.

Yes,  I think your right.  If Danny can make the playoffs , that may be all he is actually after short term and just wait see what happens. Provide better than .500 ball entertainment if possible and make playoffs to keep the fans from panicking short term.  Then rebuild in another 2 years.

He probally won't trade Rondo /Pierce...without a disaster   ...DA might go for someone like JSMith or Varejao if they can be had with out giving up PP /Rondo.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2012, 09:54:57 AM »

Offline alajet

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 790
  • Tommy Points: 54
Well, if you are asking whether Rondo can single-handedly carry a team to a higher stratosphere, I would say no.
He isn't a scoring PG, so, he'll need dependable guys (not saying he needs superstars) at the very least to set them up.

For sure, without KG and Paul, Rondo would wrestle more of the scoring load, but still, look at the fact. Everybody is more or less agreeing that 35-year-old Paul shouldn't be our constant primary scoring weapon (again, not saying he shouldn't be our go-to player, but you cannot constantly leave the load to his shoulders), but a secondary option at this point, yet, Rondo didn't step up to push Paul into that position by any means.
Whether this is what Doc, or Paul, or Rondo wants, I don't really find it important. The thing is Rondo hasn't showed anything to suggest he can score 25 night in and night out in this league and without doing that, you cannot single-handedly carry a team to a completely new level.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2012, 09:56:01 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
The conclusion is that Rondo is not one of this guy who you can surround with half a dozen of "solid players" and expect a great season. And that's not necessarily bad -- Rondo is part of the solution, but the solution is to bring another all-star caliber player. Otherwise, you'll be the Orlando Magic with Dwight Howard for years to come.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2012, 10:04:05 AM »

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
The conclusion is that Rondo is not one of this guy who you can surround with half a dozen of "solid players" and expect a great season. And that's not necessarily bad -- Rondo is part of the solution, but the solution is to bring another all-star caliber player. Otherwise, you'll be the Orlando Magic with Dwight Howard for years to come.

I agree, you can't surround Rondo with a half dozen solid players and have a great season.

However, you CAN surround Rondo with a half dozen solid players (actually, the C's have more than a half dozen), and beat ANY team in the league on a given night, if Rondo is healthy and focussed.  And that could be enough to make some real noise in the playoffs. 

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012, 10:17:10 AM »

Offline Snakehead

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6846
  • Tommy Points: 448
I though the trade Rondo threads were over. Like, really over. Like never coming back. Like, even if we lose they are as dead as a doorknob. We are not losing games because of Rajon Rondo. Period. We are losing games because our defense has been bad.

Not totally disagreeing with you -- nor, I hope you'll notice, am I saying WE NEED TO TRADE RONDO NOWWW -- but to play devil's advocate, our offense is not elite, either.  In fact, our offense is worse than our defense.  Despite having a great passing point guard, we have a decidedly average offense. 

Hard to argue that Rondo is making up for that by playing elite defense, either, though he is getting a fair amount of steals.
I know your not saying that but I have seen many people say Rondo isnt truly great because we are not an elite offense. Most teams get a lot of points on offensive boards which we forfeit because of our defensive philosophy (which I agree with). He does, however, get the team incredible looks which is why we shoot over 50% from the field as a team.

The looks Rondo gets our guys tend to be the lowest percentage looks in the game, though -- mid-range shots.


  While it's true that Rondo gets the guys shots they're comfortable taking, it's also true that we get a decent amount of shots at the rim and make them at a good clip, something that's impressive for a team that isn't loaded with low post players or even many "above the rim" types.

Agree here.

Rondo can't make players something they aren't.  Besides Rondo, step-slow Pierce, and Green, we don't have players who attack the rim.

Rondo can't change that.

The biggest thing, by far, that we are missing right now is defense.  Our offense has been weak some games but compared to years past I think it's more than fine.  We really need to pick up the defense though.  We have shown flashes, so I"m hopeful.

Bottom line is that Rondo is not to blame.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012, 10:45:53 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
By a number of metrics, Rondo is having his best season yet. 

I don't agree with this at all.  His production this season is similar to his other seasons.  His assists are up, but so are his turnovers.  His steals are down.  Granted, he is shooting MUCH better than he did last year, but his overall FG% is slightly better than some of his other seasons.

If he gets his PER over 20, I will give him the nod.

Well I guess the point is, do you think this season more or less represents the best we can expect from Rondo during the regular season? 

Rondo is definitely a different player in the post-season, but as far as leading the team to wins in the regular season, I think we pretty much know what to expect at this point.

  I don't see why one of the worst seasons we've had with Rondo here (when even you are expecting improvement) is "the best we can expect". That's kind of like saying the more mediocre teams we've seen Paul or KG on is the best we can expect from them in terms of wins.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2012, 10:54:35 AM »

Offline soap07

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1557
  • Tommy Points: 145
Part of the problem is the lack of offensive rebounding for the C's offense obviously. One of the problems is also Rondo is a fairly inefficient scorer. He rarely gets to the line and when he does, he doesn't shoot well from there. He obviously isn't hitting 3's. 13 points a game on 11 shots isn't very good. Teams know he won't look for his offense and don't bother guarding him. This is a drain on the offense.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2012, 10:55:52 AM »

Offline soap07

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1557
  • Tommy Points: 145
Quote
  Yes, I suppose if the two teams aren't identical we should act like they have nothing in common.

  For the record, you're claiming that you don't expect to see any improvement by the Celts over the course of the season?

Er, the Lakers/C's aren't really all that identical. For one thing, the Lakers are a team with very little depth missing two top-caliber starters. Of course they're going to be under .500 in the West with a roster missing Gasol and Nash.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2012, 11:34:36 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Part of the problem is the lack of offensive rebounding for the C's offense obviously. One of the problems is also Rondo is a fairly inefficient scorer. He rarely gets to the line and when he does, he doesn't shoot well from there. He obviously isn't hitting 3's. 13 points a game on 11 shots isn't very good. Teams know he won't look for his offense and don't bother guarding him. This is a drain on the offense.

  The average starting point guard gets about 14 points a game on 12 shots, 13 points on 11 shots seems pretty average. And you're seriously underestimating the effect of offensive rebounding on the Celt's offensive rating.
 

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2012, 11:36:48 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123


  Maybe we should trade him for Dwight Howard, he's got Kobe on his team and they're in worse shape than we are.

Despite that, the Lakers are still top 10 in both offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency -- something the Celtics cannot boast


  FYI, the Lakers are 17th in defensive efficiency, while the Celts are top 10 in that category.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2012, 11:40:01 AM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34034
  • Tommy Points: 1610
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
What does the Lakers and Howard have to do with the Celtics and Rondo?



Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2012, 11:53:45 AM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
By a number of metrics, Rondo is having his best season yet. 

I don't agree with this at all.  His production this season is similar to his other seasons.  His assists are up, but so are his turnovers.  His steals are down.  Granted, he is shooting MUCH better than he did last year, but his overall FG% is slightly better than some of his other seasons.

If he gets his PER over 20, I will give him the nod.
Ah yes, a higher PER is what's holding him back.

And when he gets his win shares high enough he'll be a hall of famer....
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2012, 11:58:00 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
What does the Lakers and Howard have to do with the Celtics and Rondo?

  He said that the Celts are playing poorly with Rondo so we should trade him. I suggested trading him for Howard since the Lakers are doing even worse. Shockingly, he decided that the Lakers trading Howard because the team is off to a slow start was a bad idea.

Re: What Does This Season Say About Rondo?
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2012, 12:13:07 PM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 49563
  • Tommy Points: 2460
Part of the problem is the lack of offensive rebounding for the C's offense obviously. One of the problems is also Rondo is a fairly inefficient scorer. He rarely gets to the line and when he does, he doesn't shoot well from there. He obviously isn't hitting 3's. 13 points a game on 11 shots isn't very good. Teams know he won't look for his offense and don't bother guarding him. This is a drain on the offense.

  The average starting point guard gets about 14 points a game on 12 shots, 13 points on 11 shots seems pretty average. And you're seriously underestimating the effect of offensive rebounding on the Celt's offensive rating.

I don't like offensive rebounds being counted as a continuation of the same possession. I prefer offensive rebounds to be counted as a new and separate possession. An extra possession. So under those guidelines, I have the Celtics ranked 6th (last I checked) in offensive efficiency at 0.942 points per possession.

I also have the Celtics ranked 14 in defensive efficiency at .907 points per possession and 9th in the league in point differential per possession.