Jeff Green into the Starting Lineup

[Professor of Rondology]

I posted this in the existing Jeff Green thread, but I really want to hear what everybody has to say about this so I'm going to start a new thread.

We have two SFs, and both are talented enough to play 30 mpg.  We ought to seriously consider novel ways to utilize the talent we have at this position.

Paul Pierce is a bad ass mf who can take over a game in flash when he wants to- he is one of the best scorers in the league when he is getting after it.  He has a tendency to coast at times but easily switches into assassin-mode whenever it is necessary.  He's a 35 year old who's played over 1000 games and has become increasingly injury-prone as he's aged.

Jeff Green is not the (future HOF) player Paul is, but certainly has starter-level talent.  He has elite athleticism and a very solid all-around game.  Before the JG-haters come at me: I'll admit that he hasn't showcased his full talent thus far, but if we are to make a run at Banner 18 we need him to fully utilize his talent.  The main issue so far is his inability to consistently make his presence felt coming off the bench.  Jeff plays best when he lets the game come to him (Doc said that Jeff failed to convert on the 2 occasions we ran a play for him in his breakout performance), and being a bench player is not ideal for a player like that.  The bottom line is that we need to find a way to give Jeff Green more opportunities within the natural flow of the game.

To me, all of this points to one solution- Jeff Green starts and Pierce immediately becomes the best 6th man in the league.  Paul's cold-blooded-killer attitude is perfect for that role, and Jeff's nice-guy demeanor is much more fitting for life in the starting lineup.  Additionally, Pierce absolutely needs to be 100% for us to have a shot in the playoffs- last night was a good reminder of that- and bringing him off the bench significantly reduces the likelihood of injury.

I dunno how the Truth would feel about this, but I think it warrants some experimentation.

[Lightskinsmurf]

Doc doesn't have the balls to put pierce on the bench. Pierce would have to get hurt first.

[AB_Celtic]

I posted this in the existing Jeff Green thread, but I really want to hear what everybody has to say about this so I'm going to start a new thread.

We have two SFs, and both are talented enough to play 30 mpg.  We ought to seriously consider novel ways to utilize the talent we have at this position.

Paul Pierce is a bad ass mf who can take over a game in flash when he wants to- he is one of the best scorers in the league when he is getting after it.  He has a tendency to coast at times but easily switches into assassin-mode whenever it is necessary.  He's a 35 year old who's played over 1000 games and has become increasingly injury-prone as he's aged.

Jeff Green is not the (future HOF) player Paul is, but certainly has starter-level talent.  He has elite athleticism and a very solid all-around game.  Before the JG-haters come at me: I'll admit that he hasn't showcased his full talent thus far, but if we are to make a run at Banner 18 we need him to fully utilize his talent.  The main issue so far is his inability to consistently make his presence felt coming off the bench.  Jeff plays best when he lets the game come to him (Doc said that Jeff failed to convert on the 2 occasions we ran a play for him in his breakout performance), and being a bench player is not ideal for a player like that.  The bottom line is that we need to find a way to give Jeff Green more opportunities within the natural flow of the game.

To me, all of this points to one solution- Jeff Green starts and Pierce immediately becomes the best 6th man in the league.  Paul's cold-blooded-killer attitude is perfect for that role, and Jeff's nice-guy demeanor is much more fitting for life in the starting lineup.  Additionally, Pierce absolutely needs to be 100% for us to have a shot in the playoffs- last night was a good reminder of that- and bringing him off the bench significantly reduces the likelihood of injury.

I dunno how the Truth would feel about this, but I think it warrants some experimentation.

I wholeheartedly agree that Green should get a shot at starting, just to see how it goes, but I actually think we should try putting him alongside Pierce. At least until Bradley returns.

Rondo/Barbosa
Pierce/Terry
Green/Lee
Bass/Sullinger
Garnett/Wilcox

Although, looking at that rotation, I just realized our bench would be frighteningly small.

Doc doesn't have the balls to put pierce on the bench. Pierce would have to get hurt first.

I also agree with this.

[OmarSekou]

Nope. Paul doesn't strike me as a guy who'd be up for that. He thrives on matching up against the best players in the league and having the spotlight on him. Of the former big 3, I had always felt Ray had the smallest ego and look how that played out. PP's been playing well so there's no reason to mess up his game.

Not to mention Paul's game is completely different than Jeff's. A lot of his points are coming off the ball with Rondo setting him up for spot up shots. We'd have to switch up the offense if Green came in because he can't hit those shots like Paul, can't create in isos like Paul, and probably doesn't know the sets like Paul. On defense I think PP is pretty underrated. He's solid and Green might be a downgrade there as well.

Green had a good game last night. I'm not sure what happened, but if he can bring 3/4 of that on a nightly basis he'll be great. I said on another thread we should pair him with Rondo as the primary option early in games so he can get going. Starting him might be an option down the road if Paul struggles AND Green continues to struggle, but not yet.

[TripleOT]

If a guy can't perform off the bench, even though he's been in the league for five years, what makes one think that he's going to be any better as a starter? 

It should be easier for Green to play well against other bench players. I shudder to think what he would do when matched up more often with top level talents who start.

This proposal makes no sense.   

[fairweatherfan]

No, not yet.  I can't see Paul, KG, or Rondo reacting well to that.  Or Green, for that matter.  I'm still optimistic about Jeff, but I think that a sudden controversial move to starter would bring out all of his worst tendencies as a player.

But I do think a big part of Green's contract is that Danny is planning on him taking over at 3 if/when Pierce retires after next year.  For good or bad he's being groomed as a starter, but neither he or the the team is nearly ready for it yet.

What Doc could do, though, is move Pierce closer to the same minutes rotation as KG, and give Green more time with the starters.  But with KG and Pierce sitting and Rondo already playing a lot with the bench, it's barely even the starting unit anymore.

[snively]

No.

I think a better way to get the most out of Jeff Green is to acquire a rock-solid rebounder-defender at the 5.  Allow him to play more minutes at the 4 without hurting the team so much in those areas. 

[indeedproceed]

Turrible idea. Pierce is the better player, Pierce is the probable HOF'r, Pierce is the captain. Nobody puts the captain in the corner.

[Professor of Rondology]

If a guy can't perform off the bench, even though he's been in the league for five years, what makes one think that he's going to be any better as a starter? 

It should be easier for Green to play well against other bench players. I shudder to think what he would do when matched up more often with top level talents who start.

This proposal makes no sense.   

There is a significant attitude difference between being a bench player and starting.  Some people are better suited for coming off the bench while some struggle in that role. 

Jeff Green CAN perform both off the bench and as a starter- his career stats provide proof of this (the Jeff Green is a career scrub argument is pretty ridiculous)-the issue is getting him to perform consistently for this team.  It is at least possible that starting him would help him develop that consistency. 

Nope. Paul doesn't strike me as a guy who'd be up for that. He thrives on matching up against the best players in the league and having the spotlight on him. Of the former big 3, I had always felt Ray had the smallest ego and look how that played out. PP's been playing well so there's no reason to mess up his game.

Not to mention Paul's game is completely different than Jeff's. A lot of his points are coming off the ball with Rondo setting him up for spot up shots. We'd have to switch up the offense if Green came in because he can't hit those shots like Paul, can't create in isos like Paul, and probably doesn't know the sets like Paul. On defense I think PP is pretty underrated. He's solid and Green might be a downgrade there as well.

Green had a good game last night. I'm not sure what happened, but if he can bring 3/4 of that on a nightly basis he'll be great. I said on another thread we should pair him with Rondo as the primary option early in games so he can get going. Starting him might be an option down the road if Paul struggles AND Green continues to struggle, but not yet.

I agree with most of what you said.  The first paragraph is on point, and that is the primary reason I don't think this will ever happen.
As to your second point, moving Pierce to the bench would definitely necessitate a change in the types of sets we use to start the game.
I especially agree with what you said about pairing Jeff with Rondo early in games.  Those two really need to develop more chemistry- once they do Jeff will begin playing much better.

[KCattheStripe]

I'm all for a two SF line up of Pierce/Green. No reason not to experiment with it.

[Professor of Rondology]

Turrible idea. Pierce is the better player, Pierce is the probable HOF'r, Pierce is the captain. Nobody puts the captain in the corner.

Bringing a better player off the bench is hardly unprecedented, even if that player is a future HOFer.  Pierce would still get 25 mpg and would certainly not be hiding in the corner. 

What Doc could do, though, is move Pierce closer to the same minutes rotation as KG, and give Green more time with the starters.  But with KG and Pierce sitting and Rondo already playing a lot with the bench, it's barely even the starting unit anymore.

I think this is something Doc has to focus on- both for Jeff's play and Paul's health.  The idea to bring Jeff into the starting lineup is essentially that plan taken to the extreme.

[Lightskinsmurf]

I don't think moving our best scoring option and captain to the bench to cater to green is the way to go.

[dark_lord]

pierce a 6th man.....




and since when is pierce injury prone

[Professor of Rondology]

since when is pierce injury prone

As he's gotten older he's gotten more injury prone.  Is that even disputable?


This just in- Hondo was a 6th man! Mchale was a 6th man! Bringing a HOFer off the bench is not unprecedented, people!

[alajet]

since when is pierce injury prone

As he's gotten older he's gotten more injury prone.  Is that even disputable?


This just in- Hondo was a 6th man! Mchale was a 6th man! Bringing a HOFer off the bench is not unprecedented, people!

I said it in the other Jeff Green thread, as well, but in his 13 seasons, Paul Pierce missed a total of 40 games.
His sole season where he missed a real amount of games was 2006-2007.

He isn't injury prone and this isn't even disputable.