Does the Ray Allen Situation make you look at Allen Iverson differently??

[Celts Fan 92]

I don't they're really apples to apples situations. Allen Iverson was blackballed for a few reasons, his ego among them, but not alone. His history as a cancer, other players perceptions of him, his deteriorating play, other owners' perceptions of him, Stern's perceptions, lots of stuff.

Ray Allen just felt disrespected, and went to another team.

iont get da bolded AI was neva disliked by his teammates from wat I remember. He played hard every night in Philly nd Denver where he was a top 5 scorer for years. of course its gonna be hard to accept a bench role when just da year before he was averaging 25ppg lol

[indeedproceed]

I don't they're really apples to apples situations. Allen Iverson was blackballed for a few reasons, his ego among them, but not alone. His history as a cancer, other players perceptions of him, his deteriorating play, other owners' perceptions of him, Stern's perceptions, lots of stuff.

Ray Allen just felt disrespected, and went to another team.

iont get da bolded AI was neva disliked by his teammates from wat I remember. He played hard every night in Philly nd Denver where he was a top 5 scorer for years. of course its gonna be hard to accept a bench role when just da year before he was averaging 25ppg lol

Quietly reporters have asked this question to lots of teams over the year. Nobody wants AI in their locker-room.

[MJohnnyboy]

If I say yes will it get people to stop talking about Allen Iverson?! PLEASE?!

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

My opinion of Iverson hasn't changed—as far as I know, he's still a whiner who thinks he deserves a starting role despite being a ballhogging chucker.

Allen, on the other hand, apparently had many people fooled, until recently, as to his character. My opinion of him has changed. He's selfish and petty, not a team player, and I'm glad he's gone (though I wish it wasn't to Miami).

[greg683x]

Blackballed is the word I chose to use to describe Iversons situation.  Obviously he isn't actually blackballed.  Part of me just thinks there's an unspoken agreement with owners and GMs to just not bring him in, kind of like, yes some nubby team could just sign him to sell tickets, but I think enough was just enough with him.  At least that's how I look at it, and good riddance.

Roy probably had one of the best replys but I have to respectfully disagree with at least part of it.  Ray complained about going to bench, he tactfully criticized the move to the media.  It was also noted that there were problems between Doc and Ray, and one would think that this would be the reason.  So while ray didn't complain and become a distraction to the media, it looks like he did it behind closed doors and Doc just wasn't gonna have it.  Perhaps on a team with a weaker coach and a locker room that's not as tight as the celtics, it could have been a bigger problem.

Ray still did his job, he didn't make a production of it (though he is now), and he didn't quit on his team.  So yes him and Iverson are different, I guess when it comes down to it, Ray looks like he's a much different person than I thought he was.

[ACF]

We talkin' 'bout practice?!

Nope.

[dtrader]

When was AI a cancer through his career?  In his prime, he made a team of sixers play waaay above their normal level. He gave that tem it's toughness. In Denver, he was probably one of the 5 best PGs in the game. He was an efficient player there. Not even the volume scorer he's remembered as. He wasn't a cancer in Philly the second time either. He played hurt, and gave it all he had. I never heard a single negative thing about him from the Philly locker room. Only good things. Unfortunately he had injuries+ issues off the court that made him have to stop. Memphis was a tough situation for him, but again...he was never a cancer, and he certainly never gave up. The whole issue, was that he was being benched in favor of a lesser player, who didn't give the team as good a shot at winning. Conley is ok now, but when AI was there, he was playing like garbage compared to AI. Fine...the organization saw him as the future, but AI just wanted to win in every game he played+ didn't agree with accepting loses to develop a player.  I don't know if people really watched him when he was on Memphis or Philly, but AI was still doing more for his teams at those stops than his counterparts.

Some serious selective memory in this post.

What part?  I have yet to hear anyone cite an example of Oberon giving up on his team. I personally would say that AI is a player that NEVER gave up on his team or himself. He never gave anything on the court. Id also like to know when he was a cancer. No one has said. The people who say he was a checker 1. Don't realize that him "chucking" is the only way his sixers team would make it anywhere. No one else on that team was talented enough to put any pressure on the defense. While he was in Denver he became a much more efficient player. When he was in Memphis/Philly he was also not the same volume scorer. He was looking to run plays more than find his own shot...unfortunately those teams still sucked, so he was often left having to try to create himself late in the clock.  I am a fan of AIs game, so maybe my glasses are rose colored, but I think a lot of people are at least as biased against him. I'd love to hear examples to support their stance.

[greg683x]

I have yet to hear anyone cite an example of Oberon giving up on his team. I personally would say that AI is a player that NEVER gave up on his team or himself

On September 10, 2009, Iverson signed a one-year contract with the Memphis Grizzlies.[51] Iverson stated that "God chose Memphis as the place that I will continue my career," and that "I feel that they are committed to developing a winner."[52]

However, Iverson again expressed his displeasure at being a bench player,[53] and left the team on November 7, 2009 for "personal reasons."[54] On November 16, the Grizzlies announced the team terminated his contract by "mutual agreement".[55] Iverson played three games for the Grizzlies.

**That is quitting on your team, no matter what you think of Mike Conley.  Iverson signed in Memphis to pad his career stats, nothing else.  As soon as he got wind that developing young talent was their top propriety, he quit.

Iverson quitting in Detriot.
On April 3, 2009, it was announced by Pistons President of Basketball Operations Joe Dumars that Iverson would not play the remainder of the 2008–09 season. Dumars cited Iverson's ongoing back injury as the reason for his deactivation, although two days prior Iverson stated publicly that he'd rather retire than be moved to the bench as Piston's coach Michael Curry had decided

Another example from Iverson wiki page of him quitting.

fined for failing to notify Ford that he would not attend a game because he was sick, and refusing to play in a game because he felt "insulted" that Ford wanted Iverson to come off the bench as he worked his way back from an injury

Id also like to know when he was a cancer. No one has said.

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If I have to spell this out for you to begin with, then I'm sure youll find a reason to excuse it.  Even if you think Allen Iverson is gods gift to basketball and doesnt need to practice, the other 11 members of the active roster do.  What kind of example and atmosphere does it set for young players when they start their career with the example that if you think youre good enough, then you dont need to practice?  If the franchise player doesnt have to work hard, whats stopping you from working hard??  Thats called being a cancer!!!  Youre eating any chance of your teams success from within.


The people who say he was a checker 1. Don't realize that him "chucking" is the only way his sixers team would make it anywhere.

They made it to the finals one year!!  and won one game!!  Keep in mind that there was no competiton in the eastern conference at all that year!  You want proof?  They got eliminated in the first round the next year and really the only difference was Speedy Claxton.  A bench player.  7 out of the 8 teams in the West won over 50 games that season.  Only two teams in the eastern conference did the year he made it to the finals.

Yeah he scored a lot of points, but when youre the only one shooting the ball that kinda minimizes the accomplishment.  The guy only shot 42% for his career and 31% from 3pt.  As great as his only MVP season was he followed it up with a year where he shoots only 39% from the field.

Theres your evidence, your either gonna believe it or not, but its there, but if he is as great as youre saying he is, then why cant he get a job??



...........Yikes, I'm the one that started this thread, but after reviewing all that information about AI, I kinda wish I could take it back.   Ray Ain't that bad

[Celts Fan 92]

I don't they're really apples to apples situations. Allen Iverson was blackballed for a few reasons, his ego among them, but not alone. His history as a cancer, other players perceptions of him, his deteriorating play, other owners' perceptions of him, Stern's perceptions, lots of stuff.

Ray Allen just felt disrespected, and went to another team.

iont get da bolded AI was neva disliked by his teammates from wat I remember. He played hard every night in Philly nd Denver where he was a top 5 scorer for years. of course its gonna be hard to accept a bench role when just da year before he was averaging 25ppg lol

Quietly reporters have asked this question to lots of teams over the year. Nobody wants AI in their locker-room.

still aint see none of his former teammates so how wack of a teammate he was in da social media days u would hear if he was reallydat bad of a teammate. he was on some horrible teams but neva complained to da media bout it are there any links of former teammates throwin him under da bus?

[Celtics4ever]

Not really they are apples and oranges.   I would not want either on our team these days!

[greg683x]

I don't they're really apples to apples situations. Allen Iverson was blackballed for a few reasons, his ego among them, but not alone. His history as a cancer, other players perceptions of him, his deteriorating play, other owners' perceptions of him, Stern's perceptions, lots of stuff.

Ray Allen just felt disrespected, and went to another team.

iont get da bolded AI was neva disliked by his teammates from wat I remember. He played hard every night in Philly nd Denver where he was a top 5 scorer for years. of course its gonna be hard to accept a bench role when just da year before he was averaging 25ppg lol

Quietly reporters have asked this question to lots of teams over the year. Nobody wants AI in their locker-room.

still aint see none of his former teammates so how wack of a teammate he was in da social media days u would hear if he was reallydat bad of a teammate. he was on some horrible teams but neva complained to da media bout it are there any links of former teammates throwin him under da bus?

Heres your proof.  Quote from Andre Igoudala. 

A.I. rips Philadelphia’s original A.I. with the realities of playing with a super star talent with his own agenda. Iguodala also insinuates that Philly is a city that praises success over integrity.

You could be the worst person in the world, but if you score a lot of points or win a championship, you can murk somebody.” During President Obama’s State of the Union address in January, Iguodala tweeted center Spencer Hawes: “dear mr president, I understand the struggles of trying to clean up the leader b4 you.”

Iggy didn’t stop there either. Andre went on to talk to Jenkins about the NBA’s “attention Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.” stars and how he is proud not to fit into that mold, “We have a lot of players in this league who make max dollars and think, All I have to do is score and I don’t care if we win or lose,” Iguodala says. “But I believe in karma, and if you’re a good teammate who spreads the ball and plays defense, it will turn.”


The AI supporters asked for evidence to prove all these negative claims about Iverson, and now proof has been given for all the different knocks on him.  If you like the guy, you like the guy, thats fine, theres nothing wrong with it.  But this stuff IS NOT made up, it's true.  If you still like him thats fine, but sometimes AI supporters act like people who dont like him for these reasons are on some baseless witch hunt

[GreenEnvy]

I don't they're really apples to apples situations. Allen Iverson was blackballed for a few reasons, his ego among them, but not alone. His history as a cancer, other players perceptions of him, his deteriorating play, other owners' perceptions of him, Stern's perceptions, lots of stuff.

Ray Allen just felt disrespected, and went to another team.

iont get da bolded AI was neva disliked by his teammates from wat I remember. He played hard every night in Philly nd Denver where he was a top 5 scorer for years. of course its gonna be hard to accept a bench role when just da year before he was averaging 25ppg lol

Quietly reporters have asked this question to lots of teams over the year. Nobody wants AI in their locker-room.

still aint see none of his former teammates so how wack of a teammate he was in da social media days u would hear if he was reallydat bad of a teammate. he was on some horrible teams but neva complained to da media bout it are there any links of former teammates throwin him under da bus?

Heres your proof.  Quote from Andre Igoudala. 

A.I. rips Philadelphia’s original A.I. with the realities of playing with a super star talent with his own agenda. Iguodala also insinuates that Philly is a city that praises success over integrity.

You could be the worst person in the world, but if you score a lot of points or win a championship, you can murk somebody.” During President Obama’s State of the Union address in January, Iguodala tweeted center Spencer Hawes: “dear mr president, I understand the struggles of trying to clean up the leader b4 you.”

Iggy didn’t stop there either. Andre went on to talk to Jenkins about the NBA’s “attention ****” stars and how he is proud not to fit into that mold, “We have a lot of players in this league who make max dollars and think, All I have to do is score and I don’t care if we win or lose,” Iguodala says. “But I believe in karma, and if you’re a good teammate who spreads the ball and plays defense, it will turn.”


The AI supporters asked for evidence to prove all these negative claims about Iverson, and now proof has been given for all the different knocks on him.  If you like the guy, you like the guy, thats fine, theres nothing wrong with it.  But this stuff IS NOT made up, it's true.  If you still like him thats fine, but sometimes AI supporters act like people who dont like him for these reasons are on some baseless witch hunt

I was never a big fan of Iverson, but this proves little other than Iguodala didn't like him.

If anything, this says more about Iguodala than it does Iverson. Never have I heard a bad word about Ray, but obviously Rondo didn't like him. Does that mean Ray was a bad teammate? Only difference is Rondo took the high road and Iguodala was jealous or something.


But I think there is some truth to him being a problem, either in the locker room or with the organization. He still had enough game to play in the NBA in some capacity. I'm not gonna say collusion, but it looks very similar to Barry Bonds' end.

[PaulPierce34G]

Iverson was a talent but with him came plenty of headaches.  He's one of those guys who couldn't accept that he was no longer 26 years old, couldn't play like he used to anymore.  He could still contribute to a team, of course, but he didn't want to accept the fact he was no longer the AI from the late 90's to the early 2000's. 

Teams gave him a chance but they weren't bringing him in to be a savior, which is what he wanted.  He could have ended his time in the NBA on a good note, bowing out gracefully, being the former all-star who realized his days were numbered, but he didn't.

As for Ray, I understand in a sense his feelings.  The guy wanted to feel wanted.  Nobody wants to work for a place where they feel unwanted.  As for the amount of wanting he wanted to receive, well everyone is different.  Some players it only takes a text and 1 phone call, some players want you to send them 50 texts, 30 calls, a personal dinner, etc.

The fact that the C's offered more money and even the no-trade clause should have been enough to convince him to stay.  The no trade clause was the team's way of saying, "sorry for all the trade stuff over the years, this is our way of making it up to you."  I think at that point he should have put everything behind him and stayed. 

Then he talks about his dislike for Rondo, his minimized role, etc. 

He had his reasons for leaving, but the last few weeks he sounds more and more like he is just trying to find reasons to believe the decision he made was right.

I wish him well in Miami.  He will make some good contributions.  He will probably hit a game winning shot or two this year.  This issue just needs to be put to rest now.  Ray is in Miami, Boston moved on, case closed. 

The guy helped Boston to 1 championship during his 5 years, he played hurt, gave everything he had.  Those things can't ever be taken away from him. 

He said what he had to say to the media, the Celtics said what they wanted to say, it's done.  He could have handled things a lot better for sure, but you can't change the past. 

[scaryjerry]

Ray went to the bench in Boston without complaining.  He signed with Miami to be a bench player, without complaining.  Those are two things Iverson never did.

? He clearly complained...just not in the media and to my knowledge Miami never told ray outright he was signing to be a bench player.
but no Id compare Ray more to his fellow uconn alum rip hamilton and his last year in detroit

[Celts Fan 92]

I don't they're really apples to apples situations. Allen Iverson was blackballed for a few reasons, his ego among them, but not alone. His history as a cancer, other players perceptions of him, his deteriorating play, other owners' perceptions of him, Stern's perceptions, lots of stuff.

Ray Allen just felt disrespected, and went to another team.

iont get da bolded AI was neva disliked by his teammates from wat I remember. He played hard every night in Philly nd Denver where he was a top 5 scorer for years. of course its gonna be hard to accept a bench role when just da year before he was averaging 25ppg lol

Quietly reporters have asked this question to lots of teams over the year. Nobody wants AI in their locker-room.

still aint see none of his former teammates so how wack of a teammate he was in da social media days u would hear if he was reallydat bad of a teammate. he was on some horrible teams but neva complained to da media bout it are there any links of former teammates throwin him under da bus?

Heres your proof.  Quote from Andre Igoudala. 

A.I. rips Philadelphia’s original A.I. with the realities of playing with a super star talent with his own agenda. Iguodala also insinuates that Philly is a city that praises success over integrity.

You could be the worst person in the world, but if you score a lot of points or win a championship, you can murk somebody.” During President Obama’s State of the Union address in January, Iguodala tweeted center Spencer Hawes: “dear mr president, I understand the struggles of trying to clean up the leader b4 you.”

Iggy didn’t stop there either. Andre went on to talk to Jenkins about the NBA’s “attention ****” stars and how he is proud not to fit into that mold, “We have a lot of players in this league who make max dollars and think, All I have to do is score and I don’t care if we win or lose,” Iguodala says. “But I believe in karma, and if you’re a good teammate who spreads the ball and plays defense, it will turn.”


The AI supporters asked for evidence to prove all these negative claims about Iverson, and now proof has been given for all the different knocks on him.  If you like the guy, you like the guy, thats fine, theres nothing wrong with it.  But this stuff IS NOT made up, it's true.  If you still like him thats fine, but sometimes AI supporters act like people who dont like him for these reasons are on some baseless witch hunt

i neva called it a witch hunt lol AI wasnt as bad of a teammate as da media said tho. Wit various star players ova da years u had former teammates sayin they hated em (Kobe/MJ, Vince Carter, KG) or felt they was treated like they was inferior u neva heard those stories wit AI.