NBA GM's Rankings of Celtics

[freshinthehouse]

LarBrd33 is right.  I love me some Rondo, but C3P is in a different class.

[mgent]

I wouldn't consider those high marks for the Celtics by any means.  A lot of those rankings are inaccurate, as always.  Sometimes I feel like certain picks are just something for them to laugh about later.  Probably more often they just take the easy way out and go by reputation.

All you have to do is look at Kevin Durant ahead of guys like Iguodala and Josh Smith for most athletic, and then how do you take the rest seriously?  HEAT FANS PROVIDE THE SECOND BEST HOMECOURT ADVANTAGE?!?!?!

Thank God they had Tony Allen over LeBron or I would've thrown up right there (him being in the running for "which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line" is sick enough).

[guava_wrench]

I wouldn't consider those high marks for the Celtics by any means.  A lot of those rankings are inaccurate, as always.  Sometimes I feel like certain picks are just something for them to laugh about later.  Probably more often they just take the easy way out and go by reputation.

All you have to do is look at Kevin Durant ahead of guys like Iguodala and Josh Smith for most athletic, and then how do you take the rest seriously?  HEAT FANS PROVIDE THE SECOND BEST HOMECOURT ADVANTAGE?!?!?!

Thank God they had Tony Allen over LeBron or I would've thrown up right there (him being in the running for "which player would you want taking a shot with the game on the line" is sick enough).

The Kevin Durant as athletic answer shocked me. That was the one most striking answer, considering Durant is pretty below average when it comes to athleticism. He is tall and is a great shooter. He is not fast, strong, nor a high leaper.

[ianboyextreme]

Rondo isn't going to get the respect he deserves , he isn't the media darling that CP3 is , and media seems biased in hating on the Celtics period IMO.

Rondo, being a Celtic is going to have work twice as heard as a west coast guard to be reconized in the same light as CP3 . 

Rondos team is going to have to have a GREAT year , for ROndo to get the great reviews from outisde the Celtic fan club.

I just think the general media /expert bias towards Celtics is such that Rondo will have to hang two more banners with BOston to overcome the inherit bias and hate .

There's no anti-Boston bias.  We're a premiere franchise in the NBA.  Most of the media is located East.  Our fanbase is massive.  If anything, there's a bias towards Boston players.  Rondo gets plenty of media compared to some other elite point guards like Deron Williams.

Chris Paul is superior to Rondo in almost every way.  Rondo's a great player, though and this might be a huge year for him.

False. The only things Chris Paul is better than Rondo at are shooting, steals (marginally), and ballhandling (he has one of the greatest handles of all time).

Rondo is a better overall defender, passer, rebounder, and his bball iq is higher than Paul's.

[wdleehi]

Paul is the best PG and a top 5 player in the league. 


As someone already pointed out, look what switching teams did for those two franchises. 





I can see an argument about Rose right now because of the season he just lost.



I still can't see why it is disrespect.

[sofutomygaha]

We might have to trade Rondo to the Wizards to settle this once and for all.

But seriously, Rondo is the best defensive point guard in the league. It is hard to weight defense, which is so poorly quantified, against scoring, which is straight up numbers. I can't be unbiased with this because Rondo is my binky, but I want to point out the defense and the fact that statheads universally agree Paul's assist totals have been inflated for most of his career.

Since we're being super fair, I should also point out that the conventional wisdom says Rondo is a far better rebounder than Paul. The conventional wisdom is wrong. Rondo is superior, but it's probably closer than you think- less than about a half a rebound per game.

[wdleehi]

We might have to trade Rondo to the Wizards to settle this once and for all.

But seriously, Rondo is the best defensive point guard in the league. It is hard to weight defense, which is so poorly quantified, against scoring, which is straight up numbers. I can't be unbiased with this because Rondo is my binky, but I want to point out the defense and the fact that statheads universally agree Paul's assist totals have been inflated for most of his career.

Since we're being super fair, I should also point out that the conventional wisdom says Rondo is a far better rebounder than Paul. The conventional wisdom is wrong. Rondo is superior, but it's probably closer than you think- less than about a half a rebound per game.

And Paul is a top defensive PG as well. 

[sofutomygaha]

And Paul is a top defensive PG as well. 

Defensive metrics are tough, like I said, but my personal opinion is that Paul's on-ball defense is pretty good but otherwise his defense is overrated. His steals numbers bear that out. He hasn't played on a good defensive team yet, so it's very hard to rate his team defense.

Rondo has a reputation for gambling too much in his on-ball defense. It's not obvious that the Celtics D suffers when he does this.

Overall, Rondo has held opposing PGs to a significantly lower PER than Paul over the course of their careers, with Rondo one of the top defensive PGs and Paul a little bit above average.

The argument could be made that Rondo's help is a huge part of this, but there you go.

[sofutomygaha]

So, this is a bleacher report... the usual disclaimers apply.

What is obvious from this methodology is that it is ranking team defense perhaps more than it is ranking individual defense. Still, it is an interesting read. The true defensive value of a player lies somewhere between this and the man-to-man eye test we all intuitively do

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/813678-nba-power-rankings-defensively-ranking-every-starting-point-guard-in-the-nba

[wdleehi]

So, this is a bleacher report... the usual disclaimers apply.

What is obvious from this methodology is that it is ranking team defense perhaps more than it is ranking individual defense. Still, it is an interesting read. The true defensive value of a player lies somewhere between this and the man-to-man eye test we all intuitively do

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/813678-nba-power-rankings-defensively-ranking-every-starting-point-guard-in-the-nba

Steve Nash, top 10 (7) defensive PG.


I think that alone makes me throw that list out.

[action781]

So, this is a bleacher report... the usual disclaimers apply.

What is obvious from this methodology is that it is ranking team defense perhaps more than it is ranking individual defense. Still, it is an interesting read. The true defensive value of a player lies somewhere between this and the man-to-man eye test we all intuitively do

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/813678-nba-power-rankings-defensively-ranking-every-starting-point-guard-in-the-nba

Steve Nash, top 10 (7) defensive PG.


I think that alone makes me throw that list out.

My friend was telling me the saw two different bleacherreport articles of fantasy players who are "sleepers" and "busts" and they both contained a few of the same players.

You can't take anything from that website seriously.

[sofutomygaha]

Steve Nash, top 10 (7) defensive PG.

[...]

You can't take anything from that website seriously.

You can if you read it.

Nash is the smartest player in the NBA, but he can't stay in front of anybody. Would you really be so surprised to hear that he's a middle-tier team/help defender?

[wdleehi]

Steve Nash, top 10 (7) defensive PG.

[...]

You can't take anything from that website seriously.

You can if you read it.

Nash is the smartest player in the NBA, but he can't stay in front of anybody. Would you really be so surprised to hear that he's a middle-tier team/help defender?

I did read it.



I read a Chicago writer come up with a statistical method that show the Chicago PG is the best defensive PG in the league.


And Steve Nash is in the top third of starting PGs on defense. 

[sofutomygaha]

That came off as though I was trying to make the case that Nash is a good defensive player. I am not making that case.

The point of the article is that, when you remove blocks and steals and you focus on how effectively opponents score against you, you get a defensive rating that is very team dependent, but also values your contribution to team defense.

The Suns minimize the impact of Nash's defense by assigning him to guard the opponents worst player. The metric in the BR article doesn't take that into account. The metric still captures something very important- in spite of conventional wisdom Nash is holding his own in the role he's being given.

We're talking about Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo, though, who always d up on the opposing point guard (though Rondo sometimes gets harder assignments). You should take the article at face value, because what it says is very clear and unbiased: PGs score much less effectively when Rondo is guarding them than when Paul is.

[wdleehi]

That came off as though I was trying to make the case that Nash is a good defensive player. I am not making that case.

The point of the article is that, when you remove blocks and steals and you focus on how effectively opponents score against you, you get a defensive rating that is very team dependent, but also values your contribution to team defense.

The Suns minimize the impact of Nash's defense by assigning him to guard the opponents worst player. The metric in the BR article doesn't take that into account. The metric still captures something very important- in spite of conventional wisdom Nash is holding his own in the role he's being given.

We're talking about Chris Paul and Rajon Rondo, though, who always d up on the opposing point guard (though Rondo sometimes gets harder assignments). You should take the article at face value, because what it says is very clear and unbiased: PGs score much less effectively when Rondo is guarding them than when Paul is.

It is biased to make Rose number 1.  Where any other PG lands after that doesn't matter. 


So I don't take it serious.