Folks are forgetting what its like when Avery Bradley is on the floor

[ianboyextreme]

so now it takes a dream team to beat the heat? oh espn, yall are cute.

[ianboyextreme]

I don't think people are forgetting. I think we we have a ton of strong depth at Averys position and I think he is our biggest trade chip out of those guys. I also think in his very short career he's had 3 injuries which required surgery and have kept in out for long periods of time. Also the fact that he didn't even play half a good season of basketball will lead people to believe maybe, if his value is high to other Gms it wouldn't be crazy to see what you can get.

It works both ways. If im selling him to a GM I talk about his all world defense if im trying to convince myself to try and upgrade the roster I say he has had several injuries and has only strung together 1/4 of a good season.

There's really a risk either way. There's as much evidence to project him as a bust as there is to project him as an all star.

The same doubt was being thrown Avery's way all over this board at the beginning of last season and he thoroughly proved everybody wrong.

"There's as much evidence to project him as a bust as there is to project him as an all star."- In what way shape or form is this true? He is a young talented player who came into his own as he was expected to since high school. There is no reason or evidence to expect Avery Bradley to bust but, based on his performance the majority of last season, a lot of evidence that he will continue to succeed.

I think you are hist extremely overly sensitive if anyone doesn't gush over Bradley.

I loved bradley last year and I had hopes for him and fulfilled those for 2 months.

What evidence do you have that he is going to be some sort of all star? Boy you mist have really been riding that Jeremy Lin train last year haha.

I don't see why people get insulted over the idea of trading Bradley. Nobody wants to cut him or doesn't think he's good. Its the exact opposite because he could def be a great trade chip. Id be more insulted by people that don't even think Bradley would be able to.fetch any big names or garner any interest.

Didn't we go through this with Al Jefferson already? At least at the time he was presumed to be budding into an all star (much more so than AB) and we were trading for a guy exiting his prime (although a once in a generation talent)

So if you think AB is better and more valuable than Josh Smith and you're willing to bet the world than I can't help you there. If you are only interested in trading bad or old players that no one wants than I can't hel you there either

Im sensitive to anyone not gushing over Bradley? You just came back with a defensive response, I was simply defending Bradley. I dont like when people wanna trade any of our players, cause they have a basketball boner for someone, before we even see what this team, as currently constructed, can do.
I dont really care about him being an all star, although I think that is a possability in the future given his physical ability and work ethic. I care about how much better out team is when he is on the floor, which the numbers show, is more than true.
Also, trading Avery Bradley for Josh Smith, a border line all star, is pretty different from trading Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett, one of the greatest players of all time.

[ianboyextreme]

What peopel are forgetting is that the kid had two shoulder surgeries and there's no telling when he's coming back, or, more importantly, what he'll look like when he does.

His defense is not predicated on his shoulders. No reason to think that will be any different.

[kg is king]

There are two sides of a ball game. While he's very good defensively, his offensive arsenal is very limited. His handles are suspect at best and same with his shooting range. It's night and day when comparing Bradley the defender with Bradley the offensive player. Can he improve? Most definitely. But should we pull the trigger if we can trade him for an all-star? Absolutely. Most of the trade idea being thrown around features an all-star caliber player in return. Seems like a fair trade to me.

[ianboyextreme]

There are two sides of a ball game. While he's very good defensively, his offensive arsenal is very limited. His handles are suspect at best and same with his shooting range. It's night and day when comparing Bradley the defender with Bradley the offensive player. Can he improve? Most definitely. But should we pull the trigger if we can trade him for an all-star? Absolutely. Most of the trade idea being thrown around features an all-star caliber player in return. Seems like a fair trade to me.

His offensive game is not anywhere near as lacking as you make it sound. I mean you watched him play. he was draining threes and beginning to show an ability to get to the rim. And if the hawks offered Josh Smith in return for Avery Bradley and whoever else, i would turn them down because Avery's defense is more valuable than Josh Smith's long 2's.

[Greenbean]

Bradley, Rondo, KG, Pierce, and Bass were a dominant defensive lineup last year.

Doc will have to do his best to use that lineup as much as possible while also giving Lee, Jet, and now Barbosa enough playing time to stay happy and be effective.

This is the biggest storyline of the young season.

Assuming Bradley comes back and is the defensive player he was last year with a semi reliable off the ball offensive game, Lee, Jet, and Barbosa will be trying out for two spots in the playoff rotation.

Competition is always good especially on a veteran team.

[Greenbean]

There are two sides of a ball game. While he's very good defensively, his offensive arsenal is very limited. His handles are suspect at best and same with his shooting range. It's night and day when comparing Bradley the defender with Bradley the offensive player. Can he improve? Most definitely. But should we pull the trigger if we can trade him for an all-star? Absolutely. Most of the trade idea being thrown around features an all-star caliber player in return. Seems like a fair trade to me.

His offensive game is not anywhere near as lacking as you make it sound. I mean you watched him play. he was draining threes and beginning to show an ability to get to the rim. And if the hawks offered Josh Smith in return for Avery Bradley and whoever else, i would turn them down because Avery's defense is more valuable than Josh Smith's long 2's.

Are you forgetting about Jos Smith's defensive ability...specifcally his ability to protect the paint and potentially stay in front of LeBron for small stretches?

[ianboyextreme]

There are two sides of a ball game. While he's very good defensively, his offensive arsenal is very limited. His handles are suspect at best and same with his shooting range. It's night and day when comparing Bradley the defender with Bradley the offensive player. Can he improve? Most definitely. But should we pull the trigger if we can trade him for an all-star? Absolutely. Most of the trade idea being thrown around features an all-star caliber player in return. Seems like a fair trade to me.

His offensive game is not anywhere near as lacking as you make it sound. I mean you watched him play. he was draining threes and beginning to show an ability to get to the rim. And if the hawks offered Josh Smith in return for Avery Bradley and whoever else, i would turn them down because Avery's defense is more valuable than Josh Smith's long 2's.

Are you forgetting about Jos Smith's defensive ability...specifcally his ability to protect the paint and potentially stay in front of LeBron for small stretches?

Josh smith really cant stay in front of lebron. Hes a good help defender and shot blocker and im not taking that away from him but someone who can keep the best guards in the league out of the paint before you even need paint protection is more valuable as far as im concerned.

[SHAQATTACK]

Thats the problem, nobody LBJ has his quickness.  Bigger guys can't stay with him , and he runs over smaller guys and shoots over them .

I personally believe  someone who is as tall with quickness , like GREEn should be able to guard Lebron.

But it takes sombody with  a tuff attitude , not a nice boy attitude  to do the job.  I think JEff Green fails here, he isn't mean enough or does he like the physical contact to shut down LBJ.

[Who]

Mbah a Moute would be a great defender to have to throw at LeBron.

Pity, Milwaukee are heavy on power forwards and already have two undersized guards. Tough to find a trade there. Maybe a three team deal.

[Greenbean]

There are two sides of a ball game. While he's very good defensively, his offensive arsenal is very limited. His handles are suspect at best and same with his shooting range. It's night and day when comparing Bradley the defender with Bradley the offensive player. Can he improve? Most definitely. But should we pull the trigger if we can trade him for an all-star? Absolutely. Most of the trade idea being thrown around features an all-star caliber player in return. Seems like a fair trade to me.

His offensive game is not anywhere near as lacking as you make it sound. I mean you watched him play. he was draining threes and beginning to show an ability to get to the rim. And if the hawks offered Josh Smith in return for Avery Bradley and whoever else, i would turn them down because Avery's defense is more valuable than Josh Smith's long 2's.

Are you forgetting about Jos Smith's defensive ability...specifcally his ability to protect the paint and potentially stay in front of LeBron for small stretches?

Josh smith really cant stay in front of lebron. Hes a good help defender and shot blocker and im not taking that away from him but someone who can keep the best guards in the league out of the paint before you even need paint protection is more valuable as far as im concerned.

You are preaching to the choir when it comes to AB's value on defense, I'm just saying that Josh Smith might  be just as valuable. He is a great P&R defender and can switch out on smaller guys like KG can. With KG and Josh Smith on the floor at the same time, we could potentially completley shut down any team's p&r game.

I love Bradley and I am completley content with him...but I am intrigued about what Smith could do for this team and what he could do with Rondo as well...

[Greenbean]

Mbah a Moute would be a great defender to have to throw at LeBron.

Pity, Milwaukee are heavy on power forwards and already have two undersized guards. Tough to find a trade there. Maybe a three team deal.

Mmmmmm...baaaahhh.

Love that guy...I have wanted him on the Celtics since he came in the league...unfortunately Milwaukee seems to really value him. He is way better served as a role player on a championship team.

[ManUp]

I have my doubts about Bradley. He is a great defender, but I don't think the fact that he's 6'2 should be so easily dismissed. He's spectacular against point guards, but I'm not sold on his defense against shooting guards. Blocking Dwayne Wade and consistently stopping him are two different things, do you really think he can stop Wade consistently? Anyone remember how much ATL went to JJ in the post against Bradley? Here's a reminder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9HAOamii9c

In 5 possessions: a foul on Bradley, a missed shot, a made hook over the top, a layup, and an a assist (4 points on 2-3 shooting an assist and a drawn foul.)

Here's a quote from a great breakdown on Bradley I found while searching for defense on his not so amazing shooting guard defense.

As an isolation defender, Bradley defends both point guards and wing players.  Although he is only 6’3”, his 6’7” wingspan lets Doc Rivers feel comfortable putting him on larger players.  Overall he is a good isolation defender, ranking 86th in the NBA in points allowed per possession according to MySynergy Sports, but he truly shines when facing off against point guards, as seen in the previous video.  On 48 isolation possessions against point guards, he is allowing only 0.65 points per possession.  However, that means his numbers against wing players are not as stellar.  He is allowing one point per possession in isolation versus wing players.  That figure is much higher than the NBA average of approximately 0.8 points per isolation possession.  While Bradley’s wingspan is an advantage against point guards, most wing players have equal, if not greater, length.  The video below shows that despite Bradley’s strong effort, Gerald Henderson gets his shot off without too much trouble.

and a video of Gerald Henderson (who? yeah I know) giving AB the business a few times to get the idea across.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWS8rUqv3Pg

Unless I read that wrong it seems to suggest Bradley is a below average defender against shooting guards by the numbers. So if he can't defend the shooting guard position how much sense does it make having him out their next to Rondo? Is he really a better option at the SG spot than Lee? I'm not convinced. This is the reason why I don't consider AB untradeable and am willing to trade him for an All-star caliber player.

Edit: Poor to below average.

[arambone]

Joe Johnson obviously isn't the typical shooting guard. He's much bigger.

If Bradley isn't completely dominant against every single shooting guard in the league, he's replaceable?

Even most historical great players struggled against certain specific matchups.

Barkley struggled mightily against McHale, if I recall correctly. So even legendary players can struggle against certain matchups.


One thing you didn't consider is Johnson having to guard Bradley at the other end.

You might have noticed that Bradley is as quick and agile as they come.

Bradley didn't have the green light from Doc to take his man off the dribble hardly at all. We saw glimpses of sick driving ability with a soft finishing touch, once he learned to be decisive and confident, and stopped getting blocked as much.

He's only what, 22? He's probably younger than Kris Joseph and Fab Melo. His ball handling can improve, and he's already average at worst. It was all a matter of confidence, for the most part.

I can't wait for Doc to give Bradley the green light more this year. Bradley could be a top 10 point guard in the near future if he ever got traded or Rondo got injured.

Scoring point guard like John Wall, with way better defense but playing behind Rondo.

You'll see very effective ball handling from Bradley this year, and I think he'll beat out Barbosa and Terry for back up PG too.

[KG Living Legend]

 TP for the thread title, Awesome!