doc: "ray wanted the ball more, and wanted more pick+roll plays for him"

[Interceptor]

I never had all that much more respect for Ray than I did for any other professional athlete.

I did. His work ethic and dedication to fitness/nutrition set him apart from a lot of other players in the NBA, and maybe still does, although I won't admit it except under duress because I think he's a scumbag for joining the evil empire.

As for Doc's comments, I think he is just being honest.  I don't think he is throwing Ray under the bus, just giving insight into the team.

That's the nice thing about Doc, he tells it like it is and you can come to your own conclusions. When you think back to Doc's early public reaction, that he "didn't agree" with the decision, you can see now why he said it, since there are more details available about the underlying circumstances.

[Chris]

I did. His work ethic and dedication to fitness/nutrition set him apart from a lot of other players in the NBA, and maybe still does, although I won't admit it except under duress because I think he's a scumbag for joining the evil empire.

I'll give you that.  I always have immense respect for what he did on the floor, and for his preparation for that.  I meant off the court stuff though.  I can say with extreme conviction that he is an incredibly hard worker and dedicated basketball player, because we see the evidence.  But I have no idea what kind of person he actually is, just like I have no idea what kind of person any player is.

That's the nice thing about Doc, he tells it like it is and you can come to your own conclusions. When you think back to Doc's early public reaction, that he "didn't agree" with the decision, you can see now why he said it, since there are more details available about the underlying circumstances.

Yeah, and I think the players respect this.  He really doesn't play a lot of games with the media.  And sometimes this means he will say negative things.  But because he does it from an honest place, and doesn't just blatantly throw guys under the bus, it generally isn't an issue with the players.

[TA9]

Ray just have so realize that he is to old to be "the man" on a team. He is just a 3pt specialist at this point of his career.

[Surferdad]

I lost respect for Ray for his actions not his words.  I don't recall him airing it out.  But to me, he went to the enemy, one of our rivals.   All that Celtic forever crap dies when you go to a rival and I hope Ray feels that in full force this season.  I am thankful for what he did for us and several good years.

But Ray let pride and his relationship with Ray get the best of him.  He felt slighted.  He has every right to go where he wants but don't give me the Celtics forever crap.  Now to me he is a coat tail rider, hoping to latch on to another championship.....

Right on.  Ray showed his true colors by his actions. He has an inflated sense of his worth and he is anything BUT a Celtic forever, a term that makes no sense. Go ride some coattails Ray.  I thought you were better than that. Is a second ring really worth less money?  Totally illogical.  Farther from family too.  I am still bitter about this and make no bones at all.  I hope Avery Bradley destroys him.

[bfrombleacher]

If he could have, then he should have and I think Doc probably would have.

If even one more player could have penetrated to the hoop more, our offense wouldn't have sucked that hard.

[colincb]

Ray was the 24th most efficient player in terms of points per possession in the NBA last year (playing injured) after being 10th best the year before. He was rated 42nd best defensively by Synergy in points per possession.  There's nothing in those numbers that suggests that he's all washed up if he recovers from his injury which I expect he will

When we face him, we'll have the following options. Cover him with Rondo, who is a very good help defender, but not great running through screens.  Cover him with Bradley, who would be better used on Wade and may not be on the floor at the end of games any way. Bradley will shut Allen down, but Rondo won't shut Wade down. Cover him with Terry, whose offense we'll need at the end of games, but who is not a good defensive player, or cover him with Lee, who isn't as good a defender as Rondo or Bradley and probably isn't on the floor at the end of games as his offense isn't that good - a spot up shooter who can be defended easily.

I don't see any of those match-ups as being as good for us as having Ray on the floor at the end of games.  I have to think that Terry's finishing games at this point because he's a much better offensive player than Lee or Bradley, but Allen's a better player at both ends of the floor than Terry.

I do think we can beat the Heat because our bench is so much better than last year, I assume PP will be healthy for the p[layoffs this year, and Terry was the best alternative to Allen we could have gotten by far.  However, Allen's likely going to on the floor over Chalmers during crunch time, and that's a big improvement for them, assuming he's healthy, and it's not an easy match-up for us.

[Galeto]

The problem was that Ray's lack of speed made him really vulnerable to trapping in a pick & pop/roll situation if the opposing big man was mobile enough to provide a good hedge.  Which was a shame, because he was a pretty solid passer if he was able to turn the corner and get some space.

Ray was still better than Dooling and Bradley at running pick and roll, but he was pretty bad at it all the same.  The only reliable pick and roll players we had last year were Rondo and Pierce.

I wonder if Miami promised Ray some PG minutes at the expense of Chalmers and Cole.

I don't know.  I just go back to when Rondo was out and Ray did more bringing the ball up and using screens off the dribble.  He was just fine.  He shooting numbers didn't drop off and he averaged like 5 assists a game. 

If the Celtics offense with just Rondo running things nearly all the time hummed like a Nash led offense, I can understand Doc telling Ray no but when Ray demonstrated that he can still use screens well off the dribble and the offense is just horrible to watch a lot of the time, why not introduce more variety into the offense?  That's been my biggest pet peeve with Doc.  The offense got steadily worse after 2009 and Doc never tried to change anything.  He thought putting the ball in Rondo's hands all the time was best for the Celtics so he constricted Pierce's ability to bring the ball up and attack the defense early (something which, yes, old man Pierce was still capable of as he demonstrated in game 2 against Atlanta or in the third regular season matchup against Indiana) as well as Ray's walk up three game.  When the offensive results continued to be so poor, I don't understand why he didn't expand the offense.  There's not much to lose when you're already a bottom third offense.

[celticinorlando]

love ray allen...BUT he went to the heat...therefore he is dead to me.

[BballTim]

The problem was that Ray's lack of speed made him really vulnerable to trapping in a pick & pop/roll situation if the opposing big man was mobile enough to provide a good hedge.  Which was a shame, because he was a pretty solid passer if he was able to turn the corner and get some space.

Ray was still better than Dooling and Bradley at running pick and roll, but he was pretty bad at it all the same.  The only reliable pick and roll players we had last year were Rondo and Pierce.

I wonder if Miami promised Ray some PG minutes at the expense of Chalmers and Cole.

I don't know.  I just go back to when Rondo was out and Ray did more bringing the ball up and using screens off the dribble.  He was just fine.  He shooting numbers didn't drop off and he averaged like 5 assists a game. 

If the Celtics offense with just Rondo running things nearly all the time hummed like a Nash led offense, I can understand Doc telling Ray no but when Ray demonstrated that he can still use screens well off the dribble and the offense is just horrible to watch a lot of the time, why not introduce more variety into the offense?  That's been my biggest pet peeve with Doc.  The offense got steadily worse after 2009 and Doc never tried to change anything.  He thought putting the ball in Rondo's hands all the time was best for the Celtics so he constricted Pierce's ability to bring the ball up and attack the defense early (something which, yes, old man Pierce was still capable of as he demonstrated in game 2 against Atlanta or in the third regular season matchup against Indiana) as well as Ray's walk up three game.  When the offensive results continued to be so poor, I don't understand why he didn't expand the offense.  There's not much to lose when you're already a bottom third offense.

  The main reason we're a bottom third offense is that we're a historically bad offensive rebounding team. Giving the ball to Ray and Paul more won't help with that.

[slamtheking]

The problem was that Ray's lack of speed made him really vulnerable to trapping in a pick & pop/roll situation if the opposing big man was mobile enough to provide a good hedge.  Which was a shame, because he was a pretty solid passer if he was able to turn the corner and get some space.

Ray was still better than Dooling and Bradley at running pick and roll, but he was pretty bad at it all the same.  The only reliable pick and roll players we had last year were Rondo and Pierce.

I wonder if Miami promised Ray some PG minutes at the expense of Chalmers and Cole.

I don't know.  I just go back to when Rondo was out and Ray did more bringing the ball up and using screens off the dribble.  He was just fine.  He shooting numbers didn't drop off and he averaged like 5 assists a game. 

If the Celtics offense with just Rondo running things nearly all the time hummed like a Nash led offense, I can understand Doc telling Ray no but when Ray demonstrated that he can still use screens well off the dribble and the offense is just horrible to watch a lot of the time, why not introduce more variety into the offense?  That's been my biggest pet peeve with Doc.  The offense got steadily worse after 2009 and Doc never tried to change anything.  He thought putting the ball in Rondo's hands all the time was best for the Celtics so he constricted Pierce's ability to bring the ball up and attack the defense early (something which, yes, old man Pierce was still capable of as he demonstrated in game 2 against Atlanta or in the third regular season matchup against Indiana) as well as Ray's walk up three game.  When the offensive results continued to be so poor, I don't understand why he didn't expand the offense.  There's not much to lose when you're already a bottom third offense.

  The main reason we're a bottom third offense is that we're a historically bad offensive rebounding team. Giving the ball to Ray and Paul more won't help with that.

that and we turn into a bunch of lazy jumpshooters that don't drive to the hoop or play an inside post game.  If Sully can pan out as an NBA-ready player this year (not expecting but it would be a very pleasant surprise) with a post game, that would give this team another dynamic to improve its offense.  Also, getting KG to actually play in the post on offense would help that as well.  When he did it in the playoffs, he was pretty successful and the C's offense ran pretty well

[bucknersrevenge]

The problem was that Ray's lack of speed made him really vulnerable to trapping in a pick & pop/roll situation if the opposing big man was mobile enough to provide a good hedge.  Which was a shame, because he was a pretty solid passer if he was able to turn the corner and get some space.

Ray was still better than Dooling and Bradley at running pick and roll, but he was pretty bad at it all the same.  The only reliable pick and roll players we had last year were Rondo and Pierce.

I wonder if Miami promised Ray some PG minutes at the expense of Chalmers and Cole.

I don't know.  I just go back to when Rondo was out and Ray did more bringing the ball up and using screens off the dribble.  He was just fine.  He shooting numbers didn't drop off and he averaged like 5 assists a game. 

If the Celtics offense with just Rondo running things nearly all the time hummed like a Nash led offense, I can understand Doc telling Ray no but when Ray demonstrated that he can still use screens well off the dribble and the offense is just horrible to watch a lot of the time, why not introduce more variety into the offense?  That's been my biggest pet peeve with Doc.  The offense got steadily worse after 2009 and Doc never tried to change anything.  He thought putting the ball in Rondo's hands all the time was best for the Celtics so he constricted Pierce's ability to bring the ball up and attack the defense early (something which, yes, old man Pierce was still capable of as he demonstrated in game 2 against Atlanta or in the third regular season matchup against Indiana) as well as Ray's walk up three game.  When the offensive results continued to be so poor, I don't understand why he didn't expand the offense.  There's not much to lose when you're already a bottom third offense.

  The main reason we're a bottom third offense is that we're a historically bad offensive rebounding team. Giving the ball to Ray and Paul more won't help with that.

Turnovers have also been a major factor to add to that list. Don't forget that. And that double screen set we ran for Ray always seemed to cause the most turnovers from illegal screens. Plus we had few fast break opportunities because nobody ran with Rondo. Those things stand to change this year and we should see our offensive efficiency much higher than last year to at least middle of the pack up from bottom third.

[FatjohnReturns]

Bottom line. Ray did was best for his career. Just as the Celtics do whats best for the Celtic organization.

The above poster who remarked that Doc was acting like a "jilted lover" was a fairly accurate. Ray isnt a Celtic anymore why make any comment at all? The best comment is no commment.

After all the dust settles this season a two issues are going to be obvious. Ray is not washed up. This next season may be his best in a long time. Secondly us watching Ray have a great season for another team is going to bring questions about Docs proficiency executing a offense. Why has our offense has been so bad for so long?

[pearljammer10]

I dont think he is washed up but he certainly cant score off the dribble or create his own shot anymore. I am very excited to have Terry in our offense over Allen. Whatever he does in Miami will not really matter to me.

[BballTim]

After all the dust settles this season a two issues are going to be obvious. Ray is not washed up. This next season may be his best in a long time. Secondly us watching Ray have a great season for another team is going to bring questions about Docs proficiency executing a offense. Why has our offense has been so bad for so long?

  Ray's getting close to washed up. That doesn't mean that he won't do well in Miami, where he'll have a much smaller and simpler role in the offense. If he has a great season it won't bring into question Doc's coaching, it will demonstrate how much easier it is to get open looks when you're playing with Wade and James.

[FatjohnReturns]

After all the dust settles this season a two issues are going to be obvious. Ray is not washed up. This next season may be his best in a long time. Secondly us watching Ray have a great season for another team is going to bring questions about Docs proficiency executing a offense. Why has our offense has been so bad for so long?

  Ray's getting close to washed up. That doesn't mean that he won't do well in Miami, where he'll have a much smaller and simpler role in the offense. If he has a great season it won't bring into question Doc's coaching, it will demonstrate how much easier it is to get open looks when you're playing with Wade and James.

You have been a long time proponent of Rondo being the top point guard in the league. How do you figure its easier to get open looks playing with James and Wade than playing with Rondo,Pierce,Garnett?

Sorry your wrong its always been about Docs coaching. Go back and read some of the articles pre 07/08