The Horror!! SEA/GBP - NFL Officiating

[indeedproceed]

Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.[/color]show-in-seattle]Deadspin had the NFLPA's Spokesman on to talk about this stuff.

[mmmmm]

Another view. This is a simultaneous catch imo.

BSPN and the like are once again not doing their homework.

No it is not.  The ball is against he defenders chest.  The receiver has his hand across the defenders arm.


He did a good job of catching the WR though.


And when on the ground as they roll, you can see the defenders body go between the WR and the ball.  So even if the WR had both hands on he ball, he has no control over it while the defender has it, but touches the defender down.

Except its not against his chest - its against Tate's hands/arm, which are between the ball and Jenning's chest.

In fact, by the time they reach the ground, Tate clearly has _both_ hands around the ball, and between it and Jennings.

Look at it from the beginning of the gif you posted.  The ball does touch Jennings right hand first, but that is literally microseconds before it also touches Tate's left hand.  Jenning's initial 'control' on the ball is to pull it against Tate's hand (and vice-versa).  And they both then grab it with their other hand.  You cannot really argue that Jennings showed real 'control' before Tate had both hands on the ball as well.

Neither makes an independent move with it until they are lying on the ground wrestling over it.

That is a simultaneous catch, within the parameters that referees are expected to make a judgement call.

Its funny we're arguing about this when Tate blatantly pushed off before jumping like he was Michael Jordan or something.

Very true.  But that 'issue' has been addressed.  It may not seem fair, but they pretty much never call OPI on Hail Marys.

So its sorta clear cut.  Not necessarily fair.  But clear cut.

[mmmmm]

Deadspin had the NFLPA's Spokesman on to talk about this stuff.

This part was priceless:

Kidfantastic an hour ago
How long do you think you have to train to be able to throw a hat at a moving person and have them slip on it?

George Atallah @Kidfantastic an hour ago
Depends on how much underwear you've tossed in the Lingerie Football League.

[BballTim]

  The DB had both hands on the ball. The receiver had 1 hand on the ball and 1 hand on the db's arm and later moved his second hand onto the ball. I don't think that really counts as simultaneous control of the ball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is having two hands on the ball a necessary condition to establish control? I've seen a fair number of one handed grabs that were rulled a catch.

You are correct.  And I think the problem is that everyone is focussing on who has greater control, when that is irrelevant.  The only question is whether Tate has control, and I think there is a strong argument he does, by maintaining his left hand on the ball (at least as far as can be seen on the video).

  The "lesser control" isn't irrelevant if it doesn't really constitute control. I don't think just having your hand touch the ball is enough.

[Eja117]

First world problem that both teams have equally.  I'm way way way more concerned about the cost of going to the game. You can have tickets to a game at the Meadowlands (or not) and the second you drive in they say "That'll be fifty bucks."  Hey NFL. [Edited.] I hope they lose a billion dollars over this. They'll be fine.

- No allusions to profanity, please. -RH

[indeedproceed]

First world problems are still problems. Ever since some genius figured out that sports teams could play proxy for warfare on a small and even large scale, people have been taking them pretty seriously. The NFL would be smart to make some concessions here and meet in the middle.

The NFL is top dog right now, but theyve had some crappy PR situations over the past few years.

Lucky for them Stern&Co were too dumb to take advantage.

[Eja117]

I think these refs are screwed. I think Goodell is just like Stern. Too proud, arrogant, and selfish. Totally willing to destroy a sport in order to do what's good for 32 owners. First rule of striking...never go on strike during 8+% unemployment.

[indeedproceed]

I think these refs are screwed. I think Goodell is just like Stern. Too proud, arrogant, and selfish. Totally willing to destroy a sport in order to do what's good for 32 owners. First rule of striking...never go on strike during 8+% unemployment.

Yeah, but unlike the player lockouts, the refs have scabs to point at and say, "See, you need us!"

Couple that with the savvy PR move of shutting up and keeping quiet, most people are blaming Goodell. It's not much leverage, but it's some.

[Donoghus]

As much as he's hated & ridiculed on these boards, David Stern could very well be the best commissioner in the 4 major US sports right now. (Although, that might not be saying too much).

[JHTruth]

Another view. This is a simultaneous catch imo.

BSPN and the like are once again not doing their homework.

On what planet is this a simultaneous catch??!!! He had one hand on the ball and the other on the defensive player's wrist for God's sake.

In the moment merely a controversial call but with video review.

THIS WAS A HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE, DISGRACEFUL SCREWJOB NO WAY AROUND IT..

[indeedproceed]

As much as he's hated & ridiculed on these boards, David Stern could very well be the best commissioner in the 4 major US sports right now. (Although, that might not be saying too much).

Yeah, in terms of overall success, and in terms of successfully handling labor negotiations, I think Goodell likely has the upper hand still, but Stern is head and shoulders over languishing baseball and dying hockey.

[Eja117]

As much as he's hated & ridiculed on these boards, David Stern could very well be the best commissioner in the 4 major US sports right now. (Although, that might not be saying too much).

Yeah, in terms of overall success, and in terms of successfully handling labor negotiations, I think Goodell likely has the upper hand still, but Stern is head and shoulders over languishing baseball and dying hockey.

Stern is great for making the owners money for now, but he did it at the cost of the integrity of the game. Nobody (except maybe Dons I guess) really thinks the NFL refs are purposely trying to get it wrong. The other leagues haven't had refs get investigated by the FBI. The other leagues don't have players and owners publicly questioning the results of something as simple as a draft lottery. None of the other commissioners say they know where the bodies are buried because they did it themselves. There's a difference between ineptness and evil.  Any even borderline competent commissioner could have done what Stern did with Bird/Magic entering the league together, then Jordan, then Shaq, then Bron/Wade/Mello together. 

[Donoghus]

As much as he's hated & ridiculed on these boards, David Stern could very well be the best commissioner in the 4 major US sports right now. (Although, that might not be saying too much).

Yeah, in terms of overall success, and in terms of successfully handling labor negotiations, I think Goodell likely has the upper hand still, but Stern is head and shoulders over languishing baseball and dying hockey.

Stern is great for making the owners money for now, but he did it at the cost of the integrity of the game. Nobody (except Dons I guess) really thinks the NFL refs are purposely trying to get it wrong. The other leagues haven't had refs get investigated by the FBI. The other leagues don't have players and owners publicly questioning the results of something as simple as a draft lottery. None of the other commissioners say they know where the bodies are buried because they did it themselves. There's a difference between ineptness and evil.  Any even borderline competent commissioner could have done what Stern did with Bird/Magic entering the league together, then Jordan, then Shaq, then Bron/Wade/Mello together.

Where did I ever say they were trying to purposely get things wrong?

Try not to put words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely like that.

[Eja117]

As much as he's hated & ridiculed on these boards, David Stern could very well be the best commissioner in the 4 major US sports right now. (Although, that might not be saying too much).

Yeah, in terms of overall success, and in terms of successfully handling labor negotiations, I think Goodell likely has the upper hand still, but Stern is head and shoulders over languishing baseball and dying hockey.

Stern is great for making the owners money for now, but he did it at the cost of the integrity of the game. Nobody (except Dons I guess) really thinks the NFL refs are purposely trying to get it wrong. The other leagues haven't had refs get investigated by the FBI. The other leagues don't have players and owners publicly questioning the results of something as simple as a draft lottery. None of the other commissioners say they know where the bodies are buried because they did it themselves. There's a difference between ineptness and evil.  Any even borderline competent commissioner could have done what Stern did with Bird/Magic entering the league together, then Jordan, then Shaq, then Bron/Wade/Mello together.

Where did I ever say they were trying to purposely get things wrong?

Try not to put words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely like that.

You said with your own mouth in big capital letters the critical play of the game was a screwjob.

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/the-royal-screwjob

Looking around the web the definitions and synonyms I found were along the lines of cheated, to have your plans derailed by outside interference, etc.  They tended not to be along the lines of accident or mistake or even incompetence.

I would think you would have said screw up or something if that was what you were trying to say but since a job is almost always something we purposely do I interpreted the job to have been to screw up. Hence purposely get things wrong. 

So actually you said something almost exactly like that. Perhaps you didn't mean to.

[Donoghus]

As much as he's hated & ridiculed on these boards, David Stern could very well be the best commissioner in the 4 major US sports right now. (Although, that might not be saying too much).

Yeah, in terms of overall success, and in terms of successfully handling labor negotiations, I think Goodell likely has the upper hand still, but Stern is head and shoulders over languishing baseball and dying hockey.

Stern is great for making the owners money for now, but he did it at the cost of the integrity of the game. Nobody (except Dons I guess) really thinks the NFL refs are purposely trying to get it wrong. The other leagues haven't had refs get investigated by the FBI. The other leagues don't have players and owners publicly questioning the results of something as simple as a draft lottery. None of the other commissioners say they know where the bodies are buried because they did it themselves. There's a difference between ineptness and evil.  Any even borderline competent commissioner could have done what Stern did with Bird/Magic entering the league together, then Jordan, then Shaq, then Bron/Wade/Mello together.

Where did I ever say they were trying to purposely get things wrong?

Try not to put words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely like that.

You said with your own mouth in big capital letters the critical play of the game was a screwjob.

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/the-royal-screwjob

Looking around the web the definitions and synonyms I found were along the lines of cheated, to have your plans derailed by outside interference, etc.  They tended not to be along the lines of accident or mistake or even incompetence.

I would think you would have said screw up or something if that was what you were trying to say but since a job is almost always something we purposely do I interpreted the job to have been to screw up. Hence purposely get things wrong. 

So actually you said something almost exactly like that. Perhaps you didn't mean to.

Find the post where I said the words "screw job" or even "screw up".  Quote some of my actual posts rather than some online dictionary definition of a word that I never said.  You're making leaps & bounds with assumptions on things I never said. The comments I made yesterday dealt almost entirely with how I observed that last play and how I didn't think it construed "simultaneous control".  Try reading my posts before making ridiculous proclamations of things I never said.
It's real easy to do. Click on my profile as then show my messages.