Darko is a Beast!

[kozlodoev]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

Shall we wait for him to play a full season before we annoint him the second coming of Joe Dumars?

Also, I don't think videos embedded in signatures are a good idea.

A bit of a tangent, but I am really worried that the expectations of Bradley have gotten WAY out of hand.  He had a nice run, as he was essentially hidden and ignored offensively.  But teams really didn't have a whole lot of time to adjust to him. 

He is a prime candidate for a major sophomore slump, and I have a feeling if he does, the fan backlash is going to be much stronger than it should be...and I just hope he is prepared to deal with that added pressure.

On the other hand, Darko is coming in with very little overall expectations, and has nowhere to go but up.  Hopefully it helps loosen him up.

Not as tangent as it may seem, because signing Darko means we're going into the season with 3 healthy guards, and Jamar Smith or Dionte Christmas.  Instead, we'll carry 7(!) bigs. I understand KG's health and Andrew Bynum are a concern, but this doesn't strike me as good roster balance.

[moiso]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

Shall we wait for him to play a full season before we annoint him the second coming of Joe Dumars?

Also, I don't think videos embedded in signatures are a good idea.

A bit of a tangent, but I am really worried that the expectations of Bradley have gotten WAY out of hand.  He had a nice run, as he was essentially hidden and ignored offensively.  But teams really didn't have a whole lot of time to adjust to him. 

He is a prime candidate for a major sophomore slump, and I have a feeling if he does, the fan backlash is going to be much stronger than it should be...and I just hope he is prepared to deal with that added pressure.

On the other hand, Darko is coming in with very little overall expectations, and has nowhere to go but up.  Hopefully it helps loosen him up.

What's the worst that can happen with Bradley?  He shoots a lower percentage from 3?  His defense should be the same.  He really never contributed very much on offense.

[kozlodoev]

What's the worst that can happen with Bradley?  He shoots a lower percentage from 3?  His defense should be the same.  He really never contributed very much on offense.

No, he actually showed a respectable jump shot and corner three, that's why he eventually displaced Allen from the starting lineup.

Multiple things can happen: he can get abused by bigger guards in the post, his confidence can go away and he can start bricking those jumpers (not like he was the picture of mental stability when it comes to the game), teams can start taking away the backdoor cut.

In short, he can get exposed as the guy who only looked good because other teams were busy worrying about Rondo, Pierce and Garnett. Coupled with the fact that the expectations now seem to be for him to be a fixture in the starting lineup for years to come, it's easy to see how people worry about going into the season with no backup plan.

[GreenFaith1819]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

For a while it did look like Avery wasn't going to make it.  But the difference between Avery and Darko is that Avery had no body of work to look at.  Darko has a huge body of work.  He has been in the league far longer than Rondo and Bass.  And it's not like he has more opportunity here.  He has been on some teams where he has had a chance to be one of the main guys.  He has eventually dissappointed every team he has been on.  And not only in terms of skills, but in terms of effort and focus.

But I think we have to consider the teams he's been on.

He was drafted by DET as an 18, 19 y.o....some bigs take longer to develop than others. And he wasn't going to see much PT in DET back then with Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Elden Campbell, Corliss Williamson, and Mehmet Okur on that roster.

Even with the other teams he's played on (MEM, ORL, NY, Minny) - I don't even believe that they even made the playoffs.

I'm just a firm believer in a player or person getting an opportunity in the right setting. Some players, people - just don't get that, and are cast aside even without knowing what they COULD'VE been.

[moiso]

What's the worst that can happen with Bradley?  He shoots a lower percentage from 3?  His defense should be the same.  He really never contributed very much on offense.

No, he actually showed a respectable jump shot and corner three, that's why he eventually displaced Allen from the starting lineup.

Multiple things can happen: he can get abused by bigger guards in the post, his confidence can go away and he can start bricking those jumpers (not like he was the picture of mental stability when it comes to the game), teams can start taking away the backdoor cut.

In short, he can get exposed as the guy who only looked good because other teams were busy worrying about Rondo, Pierce and Garnett. Coupled with the fact that the expectations now seem to be for him to be a fixture in the starting lineup for years to come, it's easy to see how people worry about going into the season with no backup plan.

His main weakness was confidence.  I don't really see him reverting back to his super nervous self.  He basically took open jumpshots.  He has a nice stroke, so if his confidence stays ok, he should remain a pretty good shooter of open jumpshots.

[kozlodoev]

That's the point, we don't know whether he will retain this confidence if teams go after him on every play because they can abuse him with someone three inches taller and 20 pounds heavier.

[moiso]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

For a while it did look like Avery wasn't going to make it.  But the difference between Avery and Darko is that Avery had no body of work to look at.  Darko has a huge body of work.  He has been in the league far longer than Rondo and Bass.  And it's not like he has more opportunity here.  He has been on some teams where he has had a chance to be one of the main guys.  He has eventually dissappointed every team he has been on.  And not only in terms of skills, but in terms of effort and focus.

But I think we have to consider the teams he's been on.

He was drafted by DET as an 18, 19 y.o....some bigs take longer to develop than others. And he wasn't going to see much PT in DET back then with Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Elden Campbell, Corliss Williamson, and Mehmet Okur on that roster.

Even with the other teams he's played on (MEM, ORL, NY, Minny) - I don't even believe that they even made the playoffs.

I'm just a firm believer in a player or person getting an opportunity in the right setting. Some players, people - just don't get that, and are cast aside even without knowing what they COULD'VE been.

All those teams with the exception of Detroit were exactly the right settings for major opportunity.

I believe the opposite- after several years(with plenty of playing time) and no improvement, a player won't suddenly improve.  And Darko didn't just not improve, he has regressed since his 3rd year.

[moiso]

That's the point, we don't know whether he will retain this confidence if teams go after him on every play because they can abuse him with someone three inches taller and 20 pounds heavier.

With his role, it seems that if he's not open he is not going to take the shot.

When he first started getting playing time, he was so nervous he couldn't even dribble up the court.  I don't think he will ever be like that again.

[shiggins]

I can't believe anybody thinks this guy will be better than Stiemsma. You do realize that Stiemsma, as a backup center, put up better numbers last season than Darko EVER DID IN HIS CAREER?!

The guy is the definition of a bum. As long as he is delegated to 3rd/4th string emergency big man who is only used to physically take up space on the court, then he can't hurt us.

Hopefully, he can at least produce like he did in Orlando and his second year in Memphis (his best seasons, by the numbers). Even then, at his best, he is still just a backup.

Sure - in your particular example (that is, the season when Milicic averaged 6.1 rebounds, while "playing more than 20 minutes"), his rebounding per 40 minutes was 10.5, which puts him pretty much exactly as Kevin Garnett's from last season.

That's false. First of all, it's per 48 minutes, not 40, because that's the length of a basketball game. KG last season had 12.7 rebounds per 48 minutes. Darko had 13 per 48 his rookie year, but in only 159 minutes of court time, so that's a small sample size and can't be trusted. For the rest of his career, he has averaged 11, and has never got higher than 12.3. For the record, the average center pulls down 12.7 per 48 minutes.

So basically, in his prime Darko was still a worse rebounder than KG at the tail end of his career. Next time, don't make up numbers.

But see I dont think that means this is a bad thing.  We are paying this guy the vet minimum and what is he?  According to your numbers a slightly worse rebounder than KG and slightly below average.  Average Centers in the league make way more than this and this guy is currently our 12th-15th man.  He blocks shots, and is prob a better rebounder than Ryan Hollins or Jason Collins or whoever else we would be throwing out there.  I mean he's not Dwight Howard but, what's a reasonable expectation this late in the game and for this little money?  Is there tangible evidence that an old broken down KMart would really be that much better?  It's pretty much a tossup, and why not go for the guy in his physical prime?

He's a banger.  Has decent ability.  Def gets fired up and has that Perkish anger factor. 

So what that he's not an all-star or lived up to a #2 overall draft position?  He's a legit 7 foot 275 pound 27 year old average or slightly below average player.  And we get him for pretty much free and at no risk?  What's not to like?  I don't get it.  People are acting like this guy is the worst player in basketball and its definitely not true.  He's ok, and why isn't that ok?

[Chris]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

Shall we wait for him to play a full season before we annoint him the second coming of Joe Dumars?

Also, I don't think videos embedded in signatures are a good idea.

A bit of a tangent, but I am really worried that the expectations of Bradley have gotten WAY out of hand.  He had a nice run, as he was essentially hidden and ignored offensively.  But teams really didn't have a whole lot of time to adjust to him. 

He is a prime candidate for a major sophomore slump, and I have a feeling if he does, the fan backlash is going to be much stronger than it should be...and I just hope he is prepared to deal with that added pressure.

On the other hand, Darko is coming in with very little overall expectations, and has nowhere to go but up.  Hopefully it helps loosen him up.

Not as tangent as it may seem, because signing Darko means we're going into the season with 3 healthy guards, and Jamar Smith or Dionte Christmas.  Instead, we'll carry 7(!) bigs. I understand KG's health and Andrew Bynum are a concern, but this doesn't strike me as good roster balance.

To be fair, I think Doc thinks of Pierce as a "wing", and I expect him to play him at SG at times, particularly while Bradley is out, to go with a big lineup.

But yeah, losing Dooling does hurt their depth in the backcourt.

[kozlodoev]

That's the point, we don't know whether he will retain this confidence if teams go after him on every play because they can abuse him with someone three inches taller and 20 pounds heavier.

With his role, it seems that if he's not open he is not going to take the shot.

When he first started getting playing time, he was so nervous he couldn't even dribble up the court.  I don't think he will ever be like that again.

I agree. I'm just saying that we probably shouldn't be treating him like he's a sure thing before he had a full season in which he shows the capability to contribute in this role.

[kozlodoev]

To be fair, I think Doc thinks of Pierce as a "wing", and I expect him to play him at SG at times, particularly while Bradley is out, to go with a big lineup.

But yeah, losing Dooling does hurt their depth in the backcourt.

We might have to. I guess this is one of the ways to give Green more minutes. But it's not like we have veteran SF depth either.

[GreenFaith1819]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

For a while it did look like Avery wasn't going to make it.  But the difference between Avery and Darko is that Avery had no body of work to look at.  Darko has a huge body of work.  He has been in the league far longer than Rondo and Bass.  And it's not like he has more opportunity here.  He has been on some teams where he has had a chance to be one of the main guys.  He has eventually dissappointed every team he has been on.  And not only in terms of skills, but in terms of effort and focus.

But I think we have to consider the teams he's been on.

He was drafted by DET as an 18, 19 y.o....some bigs take longer to develop than others. And he wasn't going to see much PT in DET back then with Ben Wallace, Rasheed, Elden Campbell, Corliss Williamson, and Mehmet Okur on that roster.

Even with the other teams he's played on (MEM, ORL, NY, Minny) - I don't even believe that they even made the playoffs.

I'm just a firm believer in a player or person getting an opportunity in the right setting. Some players, people - just don't get that, and are cast aside even without knowing what they COULD'VE been.

All those teams with the exception of Detroit were exactly the right settings for major opportunity.

I believe the opposite- after several years(with plenty of playing time) and no improvement, a player won't suddenly improve.  And Darko didn't just not improve, he has regressed since his 3rd year.

I see your point, but even with Darko putting up great numbers on those teams, none of them had the pieces around him to make those teams contenders.

The ORL team, even with a young Dwight - finished 40-42 and lost in the first round to DET.

The MEM team? 22-60 during Darko's first yr there, and 24-58 the next - not because of Darko.

Minny? Minny's been a bastion of futility until just the last few years - and even now you have a superstar in Kevin Love that I'm starting to question, a bit.

I LOVE KL's play, but how can he be making demands on his team like that?

Rather questionable, to me.

Again - some players just persevere and play through bad teams and situations. But I think the NBA is a place where you can be a good player in some bad situations....if you remain in that place for a while, and never land on a true contender - that can have an effect on you.

[nickagneta]

Darko is a scrub that can play good post defense and block shots. If he can give the team 10-15 MPG where the team isn't losing big ground in the game due to his horrible offense and subpar rounding, he will have done his job and be a good pickup for the vet min.

Anything more than that is gravy. Anything less doesn't matter because he's only getting a league subsidized vet min contract so its not costing the C's all that much.

[Chris]

I absolutely LOVE Celtics Fans...I really do.

Most of us here thought Avery Bradley was going to wash out, too.......including me.

Boy was I wrong on that one.

Opportunity and Confidence can do wonders for most players.

Shall we wait for him to play a full season before we annoint him the second coming of Joe Dumars?

Also, I don't think videos embedded in signatures are a good idea.

A bit of a tangent, but I am really worried that the expectations of Bradley have gotten WAY out of hand.  He had a nice run, as he was essentially hidden and ignored offensively.  But teams really didn't have a whole lot of time to adjust to him. 

He is a prime candidate for a major sophomore slump, and I have a feeling if he does, the fan backlash is going to be much stronger than it should be...and I just hope he is prepared to deal with that added pressure.

On the other hand, Darko is coming in with very little overall expectations, and has nowhere to go but up.  Hopefully it helps loosen him up.

What's the worst that can happen with Bradley?  He shoots a lower percentage from 3?  His defense should be the same.  He really never contributed very much on offense.

People who only look at him as a defensive roleplayer are not the ones I am talking about, getting their expectations too high.  But I think there are plenty of people who expect him to play (at least) the same level of defense last year, and improve offensively.

But I think he legitimately could take a significant step back offensively if defenses take away the backdoor cuts, and he regresses to the mean with his outside shooting (he had a real hotstreak for a while there).  They will likely try to funnel the ball to him, and force him to make decisions, which could end badly.

And his defense also could take a hit, as teams learn his tendencies, and figure out ways to use his aggressiveness against him (which we did see at times last year).  He will still be a VERY good defender, but he won't have the element of surprise anymore.

He also may come back without missing a beat, and take the next step in his development.  But it is by no means a guarantee, and I think anyone expecting immediate progress might be asking too much too soon.