Is Jeff Green a better PF than Brandon Bass?

[Jon]

I don't think we know the answer yet, but I think it's more complicated than those dismissing Green altogether. 

1) Green isn't a traditional power forward and is a bit undersized, but so is Brandon Bass.  With the way some people here dismiss Green at the 4 spot, you'd think we have Kevin McHale or Karl Malone as the incumbent there.   Instead, we have Bass, who is listed at 6-8, but is really closer to about 6-6.  Bass is also a below average rebounder who can finish around the basket, but has no post moves.  Instead, most of Bass's offense is created on elbow jumpers and easy finishes around the basket.

2) None of the defensive breakdowns people focused on were those from being a Celtic.  Someone posted Bass's numbers from Orlando, but that was when he was playing next to former defensive player of the year Dwight Howard, before he came to play next to former defensive player of the year Kevin Garnett here.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Green's defensive numbers against power forwards will go up here. 

3) Similarly, some people talked about how there's not enough of an offensive mismatch at the PF spot to justify what he gives up on defense and rebounding.  To that I'd say two things.  First, we've never seen him play with the likes of Rondo before after a full training camp.  The two of them in the open court could very well make up for these two area.  Second, Doc has routinely been successful with the likes of Pietrus and Posey at the power forward spots and I think we can all agree that Jeff Green is certainly better equipped to play the PF position than either of those guys were. 

I do think if the Celtic team was constructed differently, Green would have a shot to start at the 4 this year.  However, since we don't have much depth at the 3, I think he stays on the bench to back up the 3.  But I do think we can expect to see him at the 4 in the "Posey" role to close out many close games.  The Celtics certainly didn't sign him to that deal to only play 15 mpg behind PP. 

[Galeto]

With Green, his defensive problems are more than he's a lousy post defender.  He's got solid height for a PF but he lacks the physicality for the position.  Not sure how playing with Garnett will help.  KG's a master of defending the screen game, communicating with his teammates, getting back in transition, etc but he can't defend the post for Green.  Double teams will help but they're still a flawed strategy.

If Green played with Howard, however, now then he would get help in the post.  I've never seen someone contest a post shot as the secondary defender better than Howard.  In the 2010 playoffs, he prevented KG from dominating Rashard in the post like he dominated Jamison because he would come over and make KG shoot over his insane reach.  KG had to shoot moon balls in the post because of a secondary defender.  It was crazy.

Bass is a below-average team defender but he's a very good post defender.  Overall I think he's better defensively than Green is.

[indeedproceed]

I don't think we know the answer yet, but I think it's more complicated than those dismissing Green altogether. 

1) Green isn't a traditional power forward and is a bit undersized, but so is Brandon Bass.  With the way some people here dismiss Green at the 4 spot, you'd think we have Kevin McHale or Karl Malone as the incumbent there.   Instead, we have Bass, who is listed at 6-8, but is really closer to about 6-6.  Bass is also a below average rebounder who can finish around the basket, but has no post moves.  Instead, most of Bass's offense is created on elbow jumpers and easy finishes around the basket.

2) None of the defensive breakdowns people focused on were those from being a Celtic.  Someone posted Bass's numbers from Orlando, but that was when he was playing next to former defensive player of the year Dwight Howard, before he came to play next to former defensive player of the year Kevin Garnett here.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Green's defensive numbers against power forwards will go up here. 

3) Similarly, some people talked about how there's not enough of an offensive mismatch at the PF spot to justify what he gives up on defense and rebounding.  To that I'd say two things.  First, we've never seen him play with the likes of Rondo before after a full training camp.  The two of them in the open court could very well make up for these two area.  Second, Doc has routinely been successful with the likes of Pietrus and Posey at the power forward spots and I think we can all agree that Jeff Green is certainly better equipped to play the PF position than either of those guys were. 

I do think if the Celtic team was constructed differently, Green would have a shot to start at the 4 this year.  However, since we don't have much depth at the 3, I think he stays on the bench to back up the 3.  But I do think we can expect to see him at the 4 in the "Posey" role to close out many close games.  The Celtics certainly didn't sign him to that deal to only play 15 mpg behind PP.

I think there is a significant hope that Jeff Green could do well against backup 4s. I just don't think there is hope if he's the starting 4, and literally every metric we have to use says Bass performs better there.

But it doesn't mean I'm pessimistic about Green. The numbers say that Jeff Green is an average offensive starting SF and an above average defender there.

If I had input to the coaching staff, I'd suggest a flat 28 minutes cap on Pierce and play Green the other 20 there. Then I'd say play Bass 25 minutes as the starter, Sully 15 minutes at the 4, and Green the other 8 against the weakest 4s.

It would maximize our depth there at the forwards, and keep Pierce healthy from the frequent injuries older players get from over-exertion.

But, I don't have input there, so who knows.

[crimson_stallion]

The thing that most people are neglecting to consider here is that Bass' offense is very limited, and comes almost exclusively from uncontested 10-15 foot jump shots.  When that shot isn't available Bass mecomes an offensive liability.  They call him 'no pass Bass' for a reason!

It's painful to see him catch the ball with a solid defender (like Josh Smith) on him.  The posesstion typically ends in him either fumbling the ball or jacking up an ugly contested fall away jump shot which usually airballs or clangs off the front of the rim.  You can have a wide open player on the perimeter and he will not pass it out, nor will he make any attempt to try to get a shot inside.  The ball movement pretty much stops the second it hits Bass' hands, and it either ends good (open jump shot) or bad (the above scenario).

Jeff Green is a far more offensively versatile player, and while he may not be a beast on the low block, he's not a liability either.

Firstly he scores far more effective around the basket then Bass (66% vs 51%)

Secondly he scores slightly more efficiently in the paint then Bass (34% vs 33%)

Thirdly if he catches the ball with a defender on him, he has a variety of options:

1. If it's a skinnier player (Durant, Prince, etc) he can post them up

2. If it's a bigger and slower defender (Hawes, Gasol, etc) he can put the ball on the floor and take them off the dribble

3. If it's a smaller defender (on a mismatch) he can shoot over the top of them

Additionally Green has extended shooting range to 18 feet and beyond the three point line.  If he steps out into the corner the opposing PF has to step out to meet him, because he shoots 44% on corner threes.  The benefits of this are numberous:

1. He may not be a great rebounder, but by drawing his opponent outside of the paint he creates opportunities for excellent rebounding guards like Rajon Rondo to sneak in and snatch up offensive rebounds - something Rondo is one of the best in the league at doing.

2. It makes it difficult for opposing bigs to leave Green to double KG in the post, because they won't have time to ge back out to Green if KG kicks it out - and since KG is one of the best passing big men in our league, you know he will.

3. It spreads the floor, which opens up the lane for guys like Rondo, Bradley, Terry, Lee and Pierce to penetracte for easy baskets and/or fouls.

Arguably the most important of all is that Jeff Green is a much better (and more willing) passer then Bass - so even if he has nowhere to go, he's far more likely to succesfully pass out to another player who has a better shot. 

With Jeff Green on the floor along with Rondo, Bradley, Pierce and KG the scoring potential is off the charts.  KG is a threat inside and out, Rondo puts pressure on you with his penetration, Pierce can score from anywhere on the court, and Bradley and Green are both deadly on corner threes (56% and 44% respectively) and very capable of scoring off the dribble.  It's an offensive lineup that should give you solid ball movement along with the ability to attack you in many many ways.

Thowing Bass in the mix kinda kills that, because you are always aware that if you throw him the ball the ball movement stops...so it's realy up to the other 4 guys to find a way to draw defenders away from Bass so that you can hand-feed him a wide open jumper. 

After last season Bass is no longer flying 'under the radar' so to speak - teams are aware of what he can do, and they will make a more consistent effort to keep a body on him.  The second that happens Boston's offensive efficiency with Bass on the floor will drop off significantly.

As for rebounding, yes Bass is a better rebouder statistically then Green but he's still a below average rebounder, so regardless of which of those guys you have out there you are at a rebounding liability.  Both Wilcox and Sullinger will help here, but the slight increase in rebouding efficient hardly makes up for offensive liability that Bass is.

Defensively strength is Bass' only real saving grace.  Because of his bulk he has the ability to body up on opposing bigs and muscle them out of the paint, but that's only a benefit to an extent.  Bass is constantly abused by taller PF's like Amare, Bosh, Nowitski and Gasol can (and do) shoot straight over the top of him.  When matched up against SF's (Lebron, Iguodala, etc) he constantly gets beat off the dribble. Even when Battier was player PF he was killing us from the perimeter becuase Bass struggled to get out to him fast enough to contest.  Against smaller and bulkier forwards like Elton Brand he's a very capable defender, but outside of that he does struggle.

Green has the size, strength and athleticism to defend stretch SF's when opposing teams go small.  He's quick and athletic enough to run out and contest jumpshots by guys like Nowitski, Bosh and Durant and he has the size, strength and athleticism to stick with guys like Lebron and Iggy.  He's also more capable of covering an opposing Guard or SF if he gets stuck on a switch, and he should be better equipped to defend the pick and roll.

Yes, legitimate "post up" bigs will give Green headaches, but they will make Bass will struggle to cover them too, and true post up PF's are a rare in today's NBA.

So overall I think Green is probably a better option at PF then Bass in terms of capabilties. On the other hand Boston are still probably better served starting Bass, because Jeff Green's versatility makes him a more valuable backup then Bass (who can only backup PF, at which we already have Wilcox and Sullinger).   

Green can backup SF or PF as needed, and can play multiple roles, so he's a very valuable 'swiss army knife' to bring off the bench.

[crimson_stallion]

If the above makes it sound like I don't like (or am trying to bag out) Bass, that's not the case.

I love a lot of things Bass brings to the table. 

1. He brings consistent effort everynight
2. He is a great hustle guy who's not isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.
3. Left open, he has an elite midrange jumpspot
4. He does get the occasional offensive rebound/putback
5. He's a great locker room guys and has a top notch attitude

The above factors make him a great teammate, but they dont really elevate him to anything more then a top notch role player.

In fact there is another thread here talking about the rumours of Boston chasing Matt Barnes...that may well suggest that they are planning to start Green and bring Barnes/Bass off the bench to backup the SF and PF spots.

[Fan from VT]

The thing that most people are neglecting to consider here is that Bass' offense is very limited, and comes almost exclusively from uncontested 10-15 foot jump shots.  When that shot isn't available Bass mecomes an offensive liability.  They call him 'no pass Bass' for a reason!

It's painful to see him catch the ball with a solid defender (like Josh Smith) on him.  The posesstion typically ends in him either fumbling the ball or jacking up an ugly contested fall away jump shot which usually airballs or clangs off the front of the rim.  You can have a wide open player on the perimeter and he will not pass it out, nor will he make any attempt to try to get a shot inside.  The ball movement pretty much stops the second it hits Bass' hands, and it either ends good (open jump shot) or bad (the above scenario).

Jeff Green is a far more offensively versatile player, and while he may not be a beast on the low block, he's not a liability either.

Firstly he scores far more effective around the basket then Bass (66% vs 51%)

Secondly he scores slightly more efficiently in the paint then Bass (34% vs 33%)

Thirdly if he catches the ball with a defender on him, he has a variety of options:

1. If it's a skinnier player (Durant, Prince, etc) he can post them up

2. If it's a bigger and slower defender (Hawes, Gasol, etc) he can put the ball on the floor and take them off the dribble

3. If it's a smaller defender (on a mismatch) he can shoot over the top of them

Additionally Green has extended shooting range to 18 feet and beyond the three point line.  If he steps out into the corner the opposing PF has to step out to meet him, because he shoots 44% on corner threes.  The benefits of this are numberous:

1. He may not be a great rebounder, but by drawing his opponent outside of the paint he creates opportunities for excellent rebounding guards like Rajon Rondo to sneak in and snatch up offensive rebounds - something Rondo is one of the best in the league at doing.

2. It makes it difficult for opposing bigs to leave Green to double KG in the post, because they won't have time to ge back out to Green if KG kicks it out - and since KG is one of the best passing big men in our league, you know he will.

3. It spreads the floor, which opens up the lane for guys like Rondo, Bradley, Terry, Lee and Pierce to penetracte for easy baskets and/or fouls.

Arguably the most important of all is that Jeff Green is a much better (and more willing) passer then Bass - so even if he has nowhere to go, he's far more likely to succesfully pass out to another player who has a better shot. 

With Jeff Green on the floor along with Rondo, Bradley, Pierce and KG the scoring potential is off the charts.  KG is a threat inside and out, Rondo puts pressure on you with his penetration, Pierce can score from anywhere on the court, and Bradley and Green are both deadly on corner threes (56% and 44% respectively) and very capable of scoring off the dribble.  It's an offensive lineup that should give you solid ball movement along with the ability to attack you in many many ways.

The above sounds great in theory, and is certainly why he was drafted so high.

Unfortunately, he's been in the NBA for several years, and simply shown that when he does do any of those things, so far he does them at a "Meh" level. In other words, we have a lot of evidence that the Actual Output just does not match the Theoretical Execution.

[tonyto3690]

The thing that most people are neglecting to consider here is that Bass' offense is very limited, and comes almost exclusively from uncontested 10-15 foot jump shots.  When that shot isn't available Bass mecomes an offensive liability.  They call him 'no pass Bass' for a reason!

I stopped reading your post about here.  Bass shed that nickname last season and if anything would pass the ball too often when he had a decent look.  He is a knock down mid range shooter with the ability to get to the rim and did so many times in iso situations during the playoffs and in the post.  He also passed it way too often and Rondo would be forced to throw it up when Bass had a decent shot with the shot clock almost gone. 

Please watch a few games before you crap on a guy you obviously haven't watched.

Bass is a much better PF than Green is and it isn't even remotely close.  Green is horrible at the 4 and doesn't do anything well.  His best bet is at the 3 where he can take advantage of his length.  Bass isn't the greatest 4 ever, but he very obviously is better than Green as a PF.

[OmarSekou]

It's apples and oranges because they have completely different (almost opposite) skill sets.

Jeff Green is unproven at PF and in general (relative to the contract he just received). Bass was one of the most consistent and dependable players I've seen in a Celtics uniform over the past few years. He never complained about his knees, shot his way out of his only slump during the playoffs, and just put in work night after night.

Is Jeff Green a better PF? No. Does he have the potential to be? Yes. Will he be? TBD.

[crimson_stallion]

I stopped reading your post about here.  Bass shed that nickname last season and if anything would pass the ball too often when he had a decent look.  He is a knock down mid range shooter with the ability to get to the rim and did so many times in iso situations during the playoffs and in the post.  He also passed it way too often and Rondo would be forced to throw it up when Bass had a decent shot with the shot clock almost gone. 

Please watch a few games before you crap on a guy you obviously haven't watched.

I subscribed to NBA TV and watched every single Celtics game of both the regular season and the playoffs.  Obviously it's you who didn't watch any games.

Throughout the season I constantly heard commentators say sneaky things about Bass like "well, they didn't sign him to pass the ball!". 

Bass DOES NOT PASS. 

Sure he'll pass the ball during general ball rotation, but if he catches the ball in his 'spot' or midway throught he shot clock he will try to chuck up a shot absolutely regardless of who or how many people are on him.

To Bass' credit he averaged very few turnovers and was among league leaders in that area, but Green is also a very low turnover guy.

Also I'm not 'crapping' on Bass, I'm simply acknowledging the limitations of his game. 

Bass is one of the greatest midrange jump shooters from 10-15 feet in the NBA today.  Leave him open from that range and he will hit the shot almost every time.   No one here or anywhere has denied this.

As I said in my previous post, he also gets the occasional offensive rebound and putback - it's not often, but I liked the fact that he was about the only Celtics big who even tried to go after offensive rebounds.

That said Bass did not get moved into the starting lineup until both Jermaine Oneal AND Chris Wilcox were declared out for the season.  When JO went down they were starting Garnett (PF) and Wilcox (C) much of the time.  Then when Wilcox went down they moved Bass into the starting lineup and shifted KG over to center. 

Wilcox is a superior player at the PF position to Bass in almost every way.  He's at least as good a defender, he's a better rebounder, he's a better inside scorer, he's more athletic, he's bigger. The only thing Bass does better then Wilcox is he hits more midrange jumpers and he turns the ball over less.

Everyone is judging Green's performance at the PF position based on numbers he produced in OKC. Here he:

1. Never had a coach like Doc to guide him
2. Never had veterans like KG and Pierce to learn from
3. Never had an all-star big like KG) to take pressure off him
4. Never had a elite pass-first PG like Rondo to deliver him the ball

Serge Ibaka was a non factor and Perkins hadn't arrived yet.  Jeff Green was essentially the primary 'big man' in OKC and would have been defensive focus of opposing teams top teir bids.

In Boston the primary big man is always going to be KG - Green wouldn't attract the defensive attention he received in OKC, beause he'd be a secondary option at PF just like Bass was for Boston last season.  The reason Bass was so effective is because the defense flocked to Allen, Pierce and (more importantly) KG which often left Bass open, at which point the best playmaker in the league was there to deliver him the ball.

Green has never had that benefit. During Green's short stint in Boston Big Baby was always the primary backup at the PF position, leaving Green mostly backing up Pierce at SF position.

In fact, in 28 games as a Celtic Jeff Green averaged 9.8 points and 3.3 rebounds in 23.5 minutes.

That converts to 13.2 points and 4.5 rebounds per 31.7 minutes adjusted for a guy who had just been thrown into a team midseason and forced to adjust to a bench role for he first time in his career.

Bass averaged 12.5 points and 6.2 rebounds in 31.7 minutes per game last season (he averaged only 11.1 and 5.3 in the playoffs) for a team he was with the entire season.

You say not to crap on a guy you claim I haven't watched (when I've probably watched him more then you) while you are crapping on a guy you truly haven't watched, because nobody really knows what Green could be capapble of when put into the same position Bass was in last year - where most defenses ignored him, everything was handed to him on a silver platter and all he had to do was pretty much catch and shoot.

How do you think Bass would have fared if you started him on the 2010-2011 Thunder and asked him to be their primary inside scorer? You think he would have seriously fared any better than Green? All the footage I've seen (where Bass has been forced to be the #1 offensive target) in Boston suggests otherwise.

If you truly had watched Boston's games (as you suggest you have) you would have seen all the times where the other starters were resting, and Bass was on the court along with 4 of Boston's offensively incapable bench.  In these scenarios Bass was Boston's number one option on offense, and he struggled immensely - often forcing bad, highly contested shots or running into defenders under the basket and losing the ball.

Bass is a role player, and a VERY good one at that.  You can throw him into any game and he will work his butt off, he'll hustle for loose balls, and he'll knock down 15 foot jumpers like they're going out of fashion...but ask him to do any more then that and he gets uncomfortable and starts making mistakes.

For Bass to become a legitimate starting calibre player he needs to develop his game beyond that jump shot.  On VERY rare occasions in Boston he put the ball on the floor and took it hard to the rim, and when he did that he was usually very successful - either scoring or getting to the line. He's surprisingly athletic for a man with his strength, and no he takes it hard to the hole no one wants to get in his way.  Problem is he never does it.  If you're lucky he may drive it one time in ever 5 games, otherwise he just settles for jump shots.

Jeff Green is infinately more talented then Bass and has far more well rounded game.  People say he's never shown it, but in Boston he's yet to have a chance.

Kevin Garnett to this day is still one of the best defensive big men in the league, he's still an elite rebounder and he's still an excellent scorer.  He takes a LOT of pressure off whoever is playing alongside him at PF, and putting Jeff Green in that role could well see his numbers increase dramatically once he becomes familiar with the system and starts seeing some of those open looks Bass frequently received.

Also Green was never comfortable in his first season in Boston because Big Baby was always the first man off the bench, and having two frontcourt guys battling for 'first off the bench' left neither of them looking comfortable.

Green was clearly more comforable as a starter then he was as a second reserve in Boston, while Bass' numbers really didn't change when he was moved from the bench to the starting lineup in Boston.  I just think the Bass is more valiable as a super-consistent bench player then he is as a starter.

[Jon]

I don't think we know the answer yet, but I think it's more complicated than those dismissing Green altogether. 

1) Green isn't a traditional power forward and is a bit undersized, but so is Brandon Bass.  With the way some people here dismiss Green at the 4 spot, you'd think we have Kevin McHale or Karl Malone as the incumbent there.   Instead, we have Bass, who is listed at 6-8, but is really closer to about 6-6.  Bass is also a below average rebounder who can finish around the basket, but has no post moves.  Instead, most of Bass's offense is created on elbow jumpers and easy finishes around the basket.

2) None of the defensive breakdowns people focused on were those from being a Celtic.  Someone posted Bass's numbers from Orlando, but that was when he was playing next to former defensive player of the year Dwight Howard, before he came to play next to former defensive player of the year Kevin Garnett here.  I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Green's defensive numbers against power forwards will go up here. 

3) Similarly, some people talked about how there's not enough of an offensive mismatch at the PF spot to justify what he gives up on defense and rebounding.  To that I'd say two things.  First, we've never seen him play with the likes of Rondo before after a full training camp.  The two of them in the open court could very well make up for these two area.  Second, Doc has routinely been successful with the likes of Pietrus and Posey at the power forward spots and I think we can all agree that Jeff Green is certainly better equipped to play the PF position than either of those guys were. 

I do think if the Celtic team was constructed differently, Green would have a shot to start at the 4 this year.  However, since we don't have much depth at the 3, I think he stays on the bench to back up the 3.  But I do think we can expect to see him at the 4 in the "Posey" role to close out many close games.  The Celtics certainly didn't sign him to that deal to only play 15 mpg behind PP.

I think there is a significant hope that Jeff Green could do well against backup 4s. I just don't think there is hope if he's the starting 4, and literally every metric we have to use says Bass performs better there.

But it doesn't mean I'm pessimistic about Green. The numbers say that Jeff Green is an average offensive starting SF and an above average defender there.

If I had input to the coaching staff, I'd suggest a flat 28 minutes cap on Pierce and play Green the other 20 there. Then I'd say play Bass 25 minutes as the starter, Sully 15 minutes at the 4, and Green the other 8 against the weakest 4s.

It would maximize our depth there at the forwards, and keep Pierce healthy from the frequent injuries older players get from over-exertion.

But, I don't have input there, so who knows.

I don't entirely disagree.  But I still think that the comparisons are a bit biased in the sense that Bass has played next to KG this past season and then next to Howard in Orlando. 

Jeff Green on the other hand was playing next to Nenad Krstic most of the time in OKC.

When you factor in Green playing next to KG and with a very solid overall defensive team and factor in just how much more of a mismatch he can be offensively with Rondo finding him in transition, and I think he can make this work. 

I'm even more encouraged when I think of the success the C's have had with Posey and Pietrus at the 4; Green will offer all of what they did, but a lot more. 

[xmuscularghandix]

Green isn't a PF anymore.

[crimson_stallion]

P.s.
For the record bass is the single most expendable player we have right now.

We have several other guys who can play PF and hit midrange jumpers (KG, Sullinger, Wilcox, Green) and every one of those guys bar Green is a better rebounder to boot.

The way people jumped on the Bass bandwagon last year you would think he was a borderline All-Star and averaged 17 and 8...in actuality he was in the 6th man discussion and averaged 13 and 6. 

People go nuts about the fact that he had one or two strong games in the playoffs against Miami, but completely ignore the fact that he practically disappeared the entire rest of the playoffs.

With Ray and Pierce hurt and nowhere near peak efficiency we needed bass badly to step up, yet through the first 70% of our playoff run Rondo and KG were our only dependable players.

Bass wasn't as consistent as people say either.  He was SOLID ur nothing more

[Vermont Green]

OK, I started this and have finally gotten back around to reading the responses.  My opinion from the responses is that Bass is not as good as many seem to believe.  He is OK when his mid-range is falling but is undersized, not a great rebounder, OK but not a great defender, and has a limited offensive game.

Over 2.5 seasons of playing PF for OKC, Green averaged about 16 pts and 6 rebs.  Bass' best 2.5 year run (and most recent), he managed about 10 pts and 5 rebs.  Based on that, no reasonable argument could be made that Bass is a more productive PF than Green.

I think what is influencing many people's opinion on Jeff Green is the half year or so where he played for the Cs and put up about 10 pts and 3 rebs (playing both PF and SF).  Now I can understand the argument that "that" Jeff Green is not better than Bass.

So the real answer to my original question lies in which Jeff Green do you think we will get moving forward, the 16/6 or the 10/3.  I think it is far more likely that the 2.5 seasons in OKC is a better representation of the Real Jeff Green than the partial post trade season he had in Boston.

My bottom line, I think Green outplays Bass at PF this season.  Sullinger may outplay him also by the end of the year.  Bass will still play as Green will be needed at SF, I am just saying that I believe Green will play better.

[mmmmm]

I think Wilcox, if healthy, is a better PF than either Bass or Green.

And Green is a better SF than PF.

Bass is a great role player and with his strength to hold the block on defense and ability to hit that long jumper is very valuable.  In fact, he's near elite at both those two things.  But those two things so far are pretty much all he is.  It remains to be seen if he can expand his game.  For one thing, I'd like to see Bass become a better _defensive_ rebounder.

Green is underweight for a PF.  His length and speed make him useful at times to play at PF against certain match ups.   Otherwise, though, I would prefer to see him at SF.

Wilcox has the right combination of size and athleticism to better fill the PF role than either of them, though.  He's big enough to play the 5 if needed, but like Green, very mobile up & down the court.  And unlike Bass, Wilcox is a very talented post-up scorer.

Of course, that was pre-heart surgery Wilcox.  We have yet to be sure we are getting that guy back.   I hope we do.

[Boris Badenov]

OK, I started this and have finally gotten back around to reading the responses.  My opinion from the responses is that Bass is not as good as many seem to believe.  He is OK when his mid-range is falling but is undersized, not a great rebounder, OK but not a great defender, and has a limited offensive game.

Over 2.5 seasons of playing PF for OKC, Green averaged about 16 pts and 6 rebs.  Bass' best 2.5 year run (and most recent), he managed about 10 pts and 5 rebs.  Based on that, no reasonable argument could be made that Bass is a more productive PF than Green.

I think what is influencing many people's opinion on Jeff Green is the half year or so where he played for the Cs and put up about 10 pts and 3 rebs (playing both PF and SF).  Now I can understand the argument that "that" Jeff Green is not better than Bass.

So the real answer to my original question lies in which Jeff Green do you think we will get moving forward, the 16/6 or the 10/3.  I think it is far more likely that the 2.5 seasons in OKC is a better representation of the Real Jeff Green than the partial post trade season he had in Boston.

My bottom line, I think Green outplays Bass at PF this season.  Sullinger may outplay him also by the end of the year.  Bass will still play as Green will be needed at SF, I am just saying that I believe Green will play better.

Actually, the Green who averaged 10/3 was exactly the same player who averaged 16/6.

His per-minute averages on the Celtics were right at his career averages, he just played 24 mpg instead of 37.

You can see it in the per-36 section here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenje02.html