Jason Collins / Celtics two way game

[ScoobyDoo]

Didn't feel like writing two posts so combined two thoughts into one -

1. Jason Collins:

I think this signing is a very underrated one. Lee, Green & Jet are getting a lot of splash and deservedly so. However,  every time this team has had a big, banging seven footer rumbling around the paint for 10-15 minutes a night, we have been very,very difficult to beat.

Perkins / Shaq / Collins

They eat space, give you a real physical presence at the rim and six hard fouls a night.

Collins combined with Sully would be a real "bully team" in the paint if we want to play that. Collins and KG gives us two true seven footers if necessary.

By all accounts, Collins is also a decent low post defender for the likes of Bynum and Howard. He won't shut down either, but like Perkins he will definitely take pleasure in getting in their way.

Do you think the Collins signing is underrated or do you think it's insignificant?


2. The Celtics "Two way" game this year.

In the past few seasons we've largely been a defensive team that struggles with significant scoring droughts that just kill us.

This year, I see no reason why we can't be every bit as dominant defensively while also putting tremendous pressure on teams offensively for 48 minutes.

Avery, Lee, Jet, Wilcox and Green consistently getting out on the break with Rondo is a "huge" change for us offensively.

In the half court I also think that Green, Sully, Lee and Jet, along with Bradley will make be a significant improvement as well.

Therefore, I think our "two way" game has the pontential to be very special this year.

Thoughts?   
         

[Roy H.]

I think Collins can help, but I think he's a long way from Shaq or Perk.  His offensive game and his rebounding are both very, very poor.

He's arguably the worst offensive player in the NBA, and he rebounded at about the exact same rate as Paul Pierce last year, despite being 7'0" and playing beneath the basket.  Don't get your hopes up regarding his impact anywhere other than in terms of post defense.

[Chris]

I think Collins can help, but I think he's a long way from Shaq or Perk.  His offensive game and his rebounding are both very, very poor.

He's arguably the worst offensive player in the NBA, and he rebounded at about the exact same rate as Paul Pierce last year, despite being 7'0" and playing beneath the basket.  Don't get your hopes up regarding his impact anywhere other than in terms of post defense.

I agree with all of this.  But I still think he will be a very valuable asset as a role player. 

[Vermont Green]

http://magicbasketballonline.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/limiting-the-impact-of-jason-collins-on-dwight-howard-is-the-key-to-advancement-seriously/

Jason Collins is a good defender against big men, like Dwight Howard.  He will provide valuable depth at Center I believe, albeit probably only 15 min per game.  Looks like KG will have to handle the other 33 min.

If we get lucky and either Melo or Sullinger show they can play effectively at Center, then KG will slide to PF and take minutes away from Bass.  I am not expecting much from Wilcox, I think Collins will be more valuable.

[OsirusCeltics]

I think Collins can help, but I think he's a long way from Shaq or Perk.  His offensive game and his rebounding are both very, very poor.

He's arguably the worst offensive player in the NBA, and he rebounded at about the exact same rate as Paul Pierce last year, despite being 7'0" and playing beneath the basket.  Don't get your hopes up regarding his impact anywhere other than in terms of post defense.

Yeah I agree. Perk wasn't the best offensive center. But he had the offensive mindset. Knew the positions to be in order for him to score. Collins on the other hand, he doesn't even look to score at all, doesn't even look to post up

But I do think he's a good post defender

[Chris]

http://magicbasketballonline.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/limiting-the-impact-of-jason-collins-on-dwight-howard-is-the-key-to-advancement-seriously/

Jason Collins is a good defender against big men, like Dwight Howard.  He will provide valuable depth at Center I believe, albeit probably only 15 min per game.  Looks like KG will have to handle the other 33 min.

If we get lucky and either Melo or Sullinger show they can play effectively at Center, then KG will slide to PF and take minutes away from Bass.  I am not expecting much from Wilcox, I think Collins will be more valuable.

Why aren't you expecting much from Wilcox?  I understand the injury concerns, but when he was healthy, he was very effective last year.  And, he is actually a very good fit at center against most teams in the league.  He doesn't match up well against the few, true, low post guys (Bynum, Howard, Hibbert), but that is what Collins is for.  But against everyone else, he provides mobility, and a nose for the ball that we really need.

My guess is that as long as Wilcox is healthy, he will be getting the majority of the backup center minutes, other than when they are facing the few teams with real post threats.

[mmmmm]

I think Collins can help, but I think he's a long way from Shaq or Perk.  His offensive game and his rebounding are both very, very poor.

He's arguably the worst offensive player in the NBA, and he rebounded at about the exact same rate as Paul Pierce last year, despite being 7'0" and playing beneath the basket.  Don't get your hopes up regarding his impact anywhere other than in terms of post defense.

I agree with all of this.  But I still think he will be a very valuable asset as a role player.

I agree with Chris here.  We don't need Collins to be anything but a very targeted role player.  He will join KG up front when we need size and defense in the front-court.

Otherwise, I expect Wilcox to get far more minutes as the main PF/C off the bench because he is more versatile and a much, much better offensively.   If his health proves good, I would not be surprised to see Wilcox start to push Bass for minutes.

I like having them both (Wilcox and Collins) - they give us two very different looks up front that are both useful in different situations.  Danny did a very nice job.

[colincb]

Didn't feel like writing two posts so combined two thoughts into one -

1. Jason Collins:

I think this signing is a very underrated one. Lee, Green & Jet are getting a lot of splash and deservedly so. However,  every time this team has had a big, banging seven footer rumbling around the paint for 10-15 minutes a night, we have been very,very difficult to beat.

Perkins / Shaq / Collins

They eat space, give you a real physical presence at the rim and six hard fouls a night.

Collins combined with Sully would be a real "bully team" in the paint if we want to play that. Collins and KG gives us two true seven footers if necessary.

By all accounts, Collins is also a decent low post defender for the likes of Bynum and Howard. He won't shut down either, but like Perkins he will definitely take pleasure in getting in their way.

Do you think the Collins signing is underrated or do you think it's insignificant?


2. The Celtics "Two way" game this year.

In the past few seasons we've largely been a defensive team that struggles with significant scoring droughts that just kill us.

This year, I see no reason why we can't be every bit as dominant defensively while also putting tremendous pressure on teams offensively for 48 minutes.

Avery, Lee, Jet, Wilcox and Green consistently getting out on the break with Rondo is a "huge" change for us offensively.

In the half court I also think that Green, Sully, Lee and Jet, along with Bradley will make be a significant improvement as well.

Therefore, I think our "two way" game has the pontential to be very special this year.

Thoughts?   
         

1. Jason Collins will be used to combat specific players from time to time like Bynum, DH, Bogut.  If he's getting 15 minutes per game regularly, we're screwed.  Over the last 4 years, he's averaged 35 games per year and 12 mpg.  Nice signing for a guy who will be dressed half the time IMO. I expect Wilcox to be the backup center with Sullinger playing some too. Best guess is that Fab's in Maine with Joseph.

2.  According to SynergySports' stats Allen, Pietrus, and Pierce (via reduced minutes) got more points per possession in transition than their replacements Green, Lee, and Terry on roughly the same percentage of plays. Probably attributable to better 3 point shooting as "trailers" than anything else, but really a very small downgrade.  IOW, if we get a lot more fast break scoring, it's going to be because of better rebounding, not better finishing by the wings.  (Sullinger might help in that regard since he appears to be a good rebounder and passer, but how much time he'll get is a guess).

[bfrombleacher]

He will provide valuable depth at Center I believe, albeit probably only 15 min per game.  Looks like KG will have to handle the other 33 min.

I don't think Dwigt will be playing 48 minutes a game.

[fitzhickey]

I think the collins signing is underrated, because he's a big body that will hurt and enrage Bynum and Dwight.

[gar]

I think the collins signing is underrated, because he's a big body that will hurt and enrage Bynum and Dwight.

Yikes?

Not very promising. Let's just hope he does not hurt one of his own.

[pearljammer10]

I think the Collins signing is underrated as well. Having a beefy 7 footer who can play defense is also a need for your team and is something that the celtics havent had in many many years. He wont be an all star and make a huge impact. But being a legit 7 footer with his strength to body around opposing big guys ten minutes a game will be greatly needed and significant.

[Atzar]

He's good depth, but I think Wilcox will play backup C most of the time.  Our second unit is built to run, and Wilcox matches that style well, while Collins doesn't.

I expect Collins to play sparingly, based on matchups or foul trouble.

[Who]

Best third string center in the league.

[billysan]

Except in a blowout, KG will play 32+ mpg average. That will leave about 16mpg for Wilcox and the smallball running unit that should also include Rondo, Lee, Green and Jet or Bradley.

I dont see a lot of minutes for Collins unless KG is getting beat up or put in foul trouble by the opposing center. Maybe if we need to go big with KG at the PF and Collins at the C. Examples would be against Memphis with Gasol and Z-Bo or the Lakers with Howard and Pau.

Still could be Wilcox with KG for some of those minutes but KG neeeds to be on the bench for 14+ per game IMO if we want him during playoff time.